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Teaching a gobby 14yr old some piste etiquette or over-reaction?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Blimey this is getting sooooooo anal (with some anyway) - we get to he possibility that this was an illegal act?? Theft?... There was never any intention to nick the damn ski - I despair.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Winterhighland, Fair point. I'd assumed that the quote"she just turned in front of me" implied that she was already skiing on the same piste, but as you say if the other two cases applied then she would have been at fault.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
nicely done! no violence or energy wasted argueing with someone who's too hot headed to see logic in observing other piste user's safety!!
Brilliant!
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I'm going to disagree. What you did was pretty immature and you just went to his level. Obviously it seems he was in the wrong, but you acted like a bit of a dick.
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Timmaah, just out of interest, what do you think would have been a more effective approach in admonishing anti-social behaviour on the slopes?
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Good on you bertie bassett. Wish I'd seen it!!! Toofy Grin Smile
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fairfield_munchkin wrote:
bertie bassett, have to agree...a reasonable, if rather unusual and/or brave, reaction. Not something I would repeat myself...most 14 years olds are a good foot taller than me! Sad

manicpb wrote:
If you take someone else's property without consent you are causing a legal offence...

As far as I am aware there isn't a law for TWOC-ing skis in England or in France. Without any intention to permanently deprive...no offence.


I cannot speak for French law. However, under English law, BB possibly WAS guilty of TWOC. TWOC is not a legal term; the legal term from the 1968 Theft Act is "Taking a Conveyance" which applies just as well to boats and mobility scooters as to motor cars. So why not skis?

tinyurl.com/8yqj7b
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James the Last, I think it is really stretching to define skis as falling within:
Quote:

(a) “conveyance” means any conveyance constructed or adapted for the carriage of a person or persons whether by land, water or air, except that it does not include a conveyance constructed or adapted for use only under the control of a person not carried in or on it, and “drive” shall be construed accordingly;
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bertie bassett wrote:
So there I was out today pushing it pretty hard down the bottom of bellette (Les Arcs - Paradiski) when a couple of french lads on their twin-tips with their braces hanging round their knees whipped past like I was standing still - hmm their not in control I thought, and then I proceeded to back off as it gets busy and flatter at the bottom of this run.


Lame. rolling eyes

I'm guessing had they been 20-something ESF guys on racing skis wearing Spyder head to toe you'd probably have thought "Hmm there go some pros fully in control"...

Grabbing the ski was lame, especially not having seen the incident itself. If something serious goes down, making sure someone sticks around until patrol shows up is fair enough, but this wasn't the case.

Plenty of "twin-tip lads with braces hanging around their knees" have run-ins with punteriffic skiers way over their head in terrain parks or off-piste putting lives in danger through cluelessness. I suspect if this thread was reversed and some kid took a middle aged woman's ski down the mountain for doing something stupid in a park or off-piste, this thread would explode with indignant rage.
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Don't know, wasn't there, can't comment. Providing the 14 yr old could see where you left the ski then I would have had no problem with you doing that to my 14 yr old had he got arsey with you.
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rob@rar wrote:
Timmaah, just out of interest, what do you think would have been a more effective approach in admonishing anti-social behaviour on the slopes?


As far as I can tell the only one being anti-social was the thread creator.
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Im my mind more kids should be told to sit down and shut the f*** up until they are 18yrs old. to much bleeding liberal softly approach nowadays makes them think they know it all when all they are are annoying little s**ts.




Am I joking? I'll let you decide.
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Timmaah,

Puzzled Really?
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Oh! For goodness sake. It is not necessary to pointlessly philosophise about each and every action and reaction of every individual in any given set of circumstances - unless someone wants to set up a philosophy thread. Bertie Bassett dealt with a situation which could have been catastrophic, happily wasn't, but he made a good and moral point by trying to show a stupid lad the error of his ways. Nobody was abused, injured or killed, by the lad or by Bertie Bassett. Maybe he was judge, jury and executioner but please put this in context. Maybe he has turned said lad into a revenge wreaking French hoodie, but I doubt it. I could go on and on and on........but life is too short and your boredom thresholds, quite rightly, too low.

Aneira
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Dwarf Vader, Laughing Laughing Bad day at the office dear? Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
HH wrote:
Timmaah,

Puzzled Really?


The guy went past him fast, he then sees him collide with a woman. He goes over all high and mighty and starts mouthing off the kid when he doesn't really know what happened. He just assumes the kid is in the wrong because he's a kid, has a fashion sense that the thread creator doesnt agree with and went past him quickly.

The kid then starts argueing back, understandably so if some know it all brit starts mouthing you off. He then runs off with his ski. To me that is completely childish.


In the scenario that it was indeed the kids fault, which is probable, then he should have left it at having a go at him.
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Timmaah wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Timmaah, just out of interest, what do you think would have been a more effective approach in admonishing anti-social behaviour on the slopes?


As far as I can tell the only one being anti-social was the thread creator.


So you are accusing t thread creator of being a liar?

Because there is not the slightest doubt that if everything happened as he said, then he was not the only one being anti-social.
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Timmaah wrote:
HH wrote:
Timmaah,

Puzzled Really?


The guy went past him fast, he then sees him collide with a woman. He goes over all high and mighty and starts mouthing off the kid when he doesn't really know what happened. He just assumes the kid is in the wrong because he's a kid, has a fashion sense that the thread creator doesnt agree with and went past him quickly.

The kid then starts argueing back, understandably so if some know it all brit starts mouthing you off. He then runs off with his ski. To me that is completely childish.


Of cours eit was childish.

But that most certainly does NOT mean he was the only one being anti-social.

Quote:

In the scenario that it was indeed the kids fault, which is probable, then he should have left it at having a go at him.


Agreed. I think waltzing off with his ski, while it would have been extremely tempting, was a little too much.
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]Timmaah,
Quote:

The kid then starts argueing back, understandably so if some know it all brit starts mouthing you off. He then runs off with his ski. To me that is completely childish.


'arguing' Doesn't have an 'e', as it happens, probably more interesting than the last few posts. I always take notice, and 'weight' posts on decent English. Says something to me.... Still say 11/10.
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alex_heney, no I'm not accusing him of being a liar, please do not twist my words.

allanm, oh I am so terribly sorry that I mispelled a word. How silly of me. It is ironic though, seeing as you decided to capitalize the second word of your sentence. I don't really give a poo-poo if you notice my post or not. It's a public forum, if you are too socially inept of listening to other peoples opinions then I truly feel sorry for you.
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Timmaah wrote:
The guy went past him fast, he then sees him collide with a woman. He goes over all high and mighty and starts mouthing off the kid when he doesn't really know what happened. He just assumes the kid is in the wrong because he's a kid, has a fashion sense that the thread creator doesnt agree with and went past him quickly.

Or maybe he assumed that the kid was in the wrong because he hit the woman from behind? If that was the case the kid was in the wrong, regardless of how low-slung his pants were.
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Doesn't negate the fact that taking his ski was a childish thing to do.
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Timmaah wrote:
Doesn't negate the fact that taking his ski was a childish thing to do.

I disagree. If the kid was unable to see the need to take personal responsibility for his speed and line on the slopes then perhaps a bit of peer pressure from other slope users might encourage him to think again.
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I can see this going all the way to the European Court of Human Rights. wink
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Timmaah, Very Happy C'est la vie
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rob@rar wrote:
Timmaah wrote:
Doesn't negate the fact that taking his ski was a childish thing to do.

I disagree. If the kid was unable to see the need to take personal responsibility for his speed and line on the slopes then perhaps a bit of peer pressure from other slope users might encourage him to think again.


I agree with him having a go at him, but taking the ski is one step too far. I don't really care what reason you have, you don't just take someone's possession because you think you're in the right. That's incredibly childish.

The thread creator's actions made things worse, the kid will not stop his behaviour now because of what happened, if anything it encouraged it.
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Timmaah, guess we'll just have to disagree then Smile

I've never thought that 'having a go at someone' was particularly effective, so causing someone a bit of minor inconvenience at least appeals to my sense of justice even if inconsiderate kid with baggy pants doesn't change his attitude at all.
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rob@rar, Yup, totally agree, it may have been pointless, though, with someone 'older' - set in their ways, perhaps.
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You know it makes sense.
Timmaah wrote:
alex_heney, no I'm not accusing him of being a liar, please do not twist my words.


Well then you didn't understand what you wrote.

It was absolutely clear from what he wrote that if he was telling the truth, then he was most definitely not the only one acting anti-socially.

You claimed that he was the only one who was doing so. That implies you think he was lying.

Or you think the actions of others as described were somehow not anti-social. If that is true, then I don't want to get on the wrong side of you being "social" Smile
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rob@rar, I guess we shall! I don't think having a go at him worked either, guilt trip would have perhaps been best way to get him to see his mistake, but oh well.

alex_heney, when do you next go skiing?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Timmaah wrote:
rob@rar, I guess we shall! I don't think having a go at him worked either, guilt trip would have perhaps been best way to get him to see his mistake, but oh well.

alex_heney, when do you next go skiing?


3 weeks & 4 days Smile
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The kid was very lucky. If some out of control person, kid or not, had hit my wife, I wouldn't have just told him off or nicked his skis. Call me neanderthal but I don't care. I suspect that I am not the only person on this board that has this view. There's a fine line between just coliding with someone and possibly causing someone a serious injury.
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dsoutar, good point- but the husband and not Bertie had in my (Neanderthal ) view shouting rights and not Bertie. Bertie didn't like th ecut of the lads jib.
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edsilva wrote:
dsoutar, good point- but the husband and not Bertie had in my (Neanderthal ) view shouting rights and not Bertie. Bertie didn't like th ecut of the lads jib.

The sooner there is widespread rejection of out of control behaviour on the pistes the sooner we will see behaviour change, IMO. If the rest of us turn a blind eye to reckless skiing I can't see where the pressure for change will come from.

BTW, having met and skied with Bertie Basset a few times I'm pretty certain that his motivation was not youth fashion Smile
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I have been out of control on the slopes, and it was not deliberate. Surely the whole point of being out of control is that you've lost control. When a learner driver, you have somebody with a brain and a second set of controls telling you what to do. When a skier, you do not have that fortune.

Ever fallen over? You've lost control too.
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James the Last, being out of control is not a problem. But putting yourself into a situation where losing control means that you could hit some innocent person sharing the slope with you at high speed is irresponsible, anti-social and in my opinion completely unacceptable. I've been out of control lots of times, but I've never hit anyone because I take my responsibility to other slope users pretty seriously.
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Oh well, that's OK then. Yes, most people have at sometime lost control, but there are degrees of this and repeatedly being so also increases the seriousness of it. There are people who will lose control, realise they have done so and then moderate their behaviour as a result. This normally means that they regain control relatively quickly. Then again there are people who realise they have lost control, probably for the umpteenth time, and because nothing too nasty occurred the previous x times, they do not moderate their behaviour.

Until these people are stopped from using the pistes they will continue to repeat these mistakes. The two strikes and you're out system (backed up by proper piste patrol) that some US resorts operate seems to me to be a sensible approach.
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I ran into and knocked over a dutchman last week. He was very unimpressed and threw every conceivable toy from the pram. On the plus side, his friends thought it hilarious.

A LARGE party of us skied down a real thraping blue that was built for high speed. One of the kids approached the queue and had to stop quickly. He flopped to the floor and I poled over to advise him to take it steady when approaching the lift line as running into someone in such circumstances was very bad form. I then poled at walking speed to the queue, spotted a gap that was behind one of our party, and proceeded at approx 4mph. just as i was ging to turn behind our party memeber he rolled backk 3 foot and I skied right over the back of his skis. This rendered me unable to turn, I missed the gap and rolled gently into the similarly sized cloggy. I was on his skis and we hugged firmly. Neither could balance and we gentle swayed like two giant Californian redwoods before.....TIMBERRRRRRRR. Halfwayt through our decent my rugby training came to the fore and I twisted to land on top. The other male and two females in his party burst out laughing but stanton's mate was not a happy bunny and stated shouting and swearing at me as I helped him to his feet and picked his skis up for him. I apologised profusely, tried to explain that I had not been speeding or reckless, but he was in full red face mode. The giggling started to spread and eventually I had to turn and re-join the queue as I felt a smile coming to my cheeks.

One of the 13 yr old girls was flattened by a vrit in Colfosco. Her Dad was skiing behind her and witnessed it. The Brit apopolgised annd siad " I couldn't avoid fer. He had no reply when Dad replied " the piste is empty and 100 yrds wide, what do you mean you couldn't avboid her". On the bright side; the twonk broke his blackberry in the crash Twisted Evil
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
I missed the gap and rolled gently into the similarly sized cloggy. I was on his skis and we hugged firmly. Neither could balance and we gentle swayed like two giant Californian redwoods before.....TIMBERRRRRRRR.

Laughing Glad you got the upper hand (and arm, body, legs, etc).
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So, bertie bassett, now that everyone's had a good row about everything from law to grammar rolling eyes , how do you feel about what happened. Have you been convinced that you are now the Judge Dread of the slopes and can move people's ski equipment around the mountain with impunity, or do you think that the next time this happens you'll turn a blind eye on their attitude as well as their fashion sense?
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