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Cleaning deposit not returned - what can we do?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name, my first reaction to the "stolen" duvet is that someone had an unmentionable "accident" and was too embarassed to leave it... Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Alexandra, pillows and duvets disappear surprisingly often, and not just because of accidents. The French bring a lot of their own stuf with them, but Uk drivers often disappear with pillows for their kids to use in the back of the car, and cutlery for their picnics. I am considering leaving a box of plastic picnic cutlery at my apartment for this reason.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Uk drivers often disappear with pillows for their kids to use in the back of the car,

Shocked Does this get taken off their deposit?
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pam w, personally, none of mine have vanished, but I do know of others that have the problem. I assume if it disappears it would be deducted.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Boris wrote:
Between the 6 adults the view was we'd have been able to clean the chalet very well if we had the chance


Don't try that in Switzerland however, you really wouldn't believe the minimum standard that is deemed acceptable. Most French properties don't even start to meet it even at the moment the cleaner walks out of the door

Going back to an earlier post (sorry, I forget whose), it's not just holiday properties where landlords do their damndest to hold onto the deposit. When we moved here and handed over our old rented house, the landlords engaged an expert of their choice to assess the cleaning etc as we went round. He deemed everything fine, the landlady wasn't happy with some lifting melamine on a shelf in a kitchen cabinet (we're talkig 0.5mm lift over about half a centimetre), nor with some discolouration of the ceramic hob. "That's what you get for buying a cheap kitchen" was their expert's response. Nevertheless they still took us to arbitration to get the costs, claiming the cleaning co we engage must have used a steam cleaner even though they swore the didn't. Landlords' case was thrown out but they still didn't return our deposit and in the end we had to claim it back from the bank unilaterally after a year, as the law allows you to do if there are no outstanding complaints.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 19-02-09 13:00; edited 1 time in total
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We've used ILS for several years and had no problems - we always clean before we go, gives us a chance to check that we've left nothing behind. We probably leave it cleaner than we find it when we arrive - I'm sure the clean that ILS do is fairly cursory. I don't do the booking so can't remeber what the cleaning fee is, though last year it was discretionary, and because of the early start we negotiated with the guy in charge and did it ourselves and he didn't check till after we left. He was supposed to check it before we left and then return our deposit.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
leaving Livigno at 2am last year with Panorama, the apt owner turned up at 1:45 had quick look and gave the rep our money back
no problems
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Lately, we have been repeat business and we pay for the clean.... so we leave it as we find it and only leave stuff that is too useful to throw away like coffee and condiments etc . We collect and drop off the linen and everything is taken to the bin that is not useful.

I wouldn't expect any problems with that but we are talking Swiss so who knows.

And it is all very well having a nice log fire but you'll need to buy the wood..and you'll go through that PDQ... We prefer a fire but it goes on the shopping bill which can be hurtful to English pounds..Laughing

And I do think £165 for 5 sets of linen is steep...I could probably buy new for that, but no, I don't want to be taking my own..and I suspect the Swiss know that
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http://www.serrechevalier-lavanderie.com/prestations.html . Price list for linen and towel hire, as well as washing in Serre Chevalier. My laundry is done in the apartment wherever possible, so I don't have to pay these very often.
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Quote:

I don't want to be taking my own

I would, at that money.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
pam w, so would I, which is why I decided to include the linen. I can never understand why it isn't included, although I think there may be historic tax reasons. I wanted mine to be matching, not a load of mismatched sheets and duvet covers. It hardly portrays the idea of a luxury apartment does it? Most of the French I have coming are pleased it is provided, and none have asked for a discount to bring their own.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Dave Horsley, Interesting - we've never had the option not to have the final clean. Where did you book?

Maybe different depending on what you've booked? Chalet or apartment.

Previous years the chalets have been spotless and I mean spotless - this year it was a real quick once over. I won't claim we left it spotless when we left - but as I was paying €250 for it to be cleaned I wanted my money's worth Toofy Grin

ILS are now belvilla http://www.belvilla.co.uk/
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Linen, towels and cleaning can be a nightmare, as I have found in the past, so I now only use owner-run catered properties, locally-managed s/c with linen and cleaning included in the cost, or residences with in-house staff and management. The vast majority of the latter have linen/towels included and the rest either have it to hire at a very reasonable cost or clients can take their own (no hassle if driving, more of an issue if flying). Cleaning deposits are taken, the amount varies according to the size of the property, and clients can elect to leave it "as they found it" or pay for a final clean, but again, the costs are reasonable considering the work involved and the man-hours on a busy changeover day.

The properties my old company used, were largely from immobiliers and the linen etc is never included. Cleaning costs varied depending on the size, but a 5 bedroom chalet would be around 150 euros - sounds a lot, but as others have said, good cleaners are hard to find and I do think people under-estimate the time it takes to return a large property to a good state of cleanliness and prepared for the next people coming in. However, the system was fraught with hassles and it wasn't unusual for linen to be missing, chalets to be dirty on arrival as no-one from the agency had found time to check after the last guest etc etc

I have found that in general, a client would rather hear that the chalet costs 1500 euros including bed linen, towels and end of stay cleaning, than a lead-in price with everything else added on.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
I have found that in general, a client would rather hear that the chalet costs 1500 euros including bed linen, towels and end of stay cleaning, than a lead-in price with everything else added on.
Agreed.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:


... But the kind of situation described by the OP is, I suppose, one of the risks of DIY holidays (like booking a place on the internet then finding didn't exist, or that you'd paid someone posing as the owner). TOs arrangements ought to be able to guard against that sort of risk - or using a proper local agent, rather than an individual, would also give you some confidence that you wouldn't be cheated.


I wish you hadn't mentioned the possibility of a chalet not 'existing' - this is my biggest fear on booking accommodation direct. Does it happen a lot? no, don't answer that... the bloke we have paid seems a really decent chap, even said he would get his kids sledges out of the garage and leave them in the apartment for us as he is there this week and we go next week - and I guess as he is posting us the keys we should at least know before we get there that we have a problem?

Arghhh... I really really wish you hadn't raised this issue... I'm a born worrier.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There are some websites around which give you some protection from your holiday property not existing, some like Owners Direct offer a financial guarantee as long as you register your booking with them, and others like Your Holiday Matters ask for references from previous guests before you are allowed to list your property. There aren't too many ski properties on there at the moment, but any owners can apply. Listing is free, as long as you link back to the site , and write an article on your area, which helps to improve the SEO of the site.

skimom, instances of non-existent chalets are thankfully few and far between.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Boris,

It was a chalet in LDA we had the bottom floor. If I recall correctly there was a choice of small fee, but we leave it spotless. Large fee and we can leave it dirty and they cleaned it. However I don't think it was a chalet owned by ILS - they just managed it for the owners. The guy who provided us with the keys etc. was pretty good about things.

Previous occasions we've used ILS they've had a complex of chalets and an office close by, but that was diferent resorts. We're booked with them in ADH for easter.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Alexandra, that's our conclusion too. Wish they'd mentioned - we could have charged for the replacement... but seriously, we're adults, "accidents" happen...(still chargeable though)

Helen Beaumont, hah, funny you metion cutlery, over the summer we lost the entire complement of teaspoons. Shocked yogurts on summer picnics??
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Quote:

I really really wish you hadn't raised this issue

Sorry! It was only because this issue was discussed, in a worried sort of way, by one or two chalet owners on Snowheads quite recently - the chalets sold "fraudulently" did actually exist but someone else had advertised them and got the cash. I think telephoning and talking to owners is a very good idea - it gives you a much better feel for it all. I'm sure your place will be excellent, skimom.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
As we let our chalet for a few weeks in the winter when we don't want to be there - February generally - and a little in the summer we have had to think about this whole issue of people feeling confident that their booking was with genuine people. No-one, so far, has had any problem sending us a 20% deposit to secure the booking and their balance on time, and we also hold a security deposit in the form of a cheque which we say we will return within two weeks once we know that everything was left in order - never had to make any deductions, as if it is the odd half hour or hour for cleaning then we don't actually deduct. We now say that we will take payments through Paypal (not taken up so far) and as we put the chalet with an agent in the village if anyone was worried then they could make their booking with them - it would cost them more that way.

On the other hand we are also concerned to make sure that we only have people staying who will look after what is one of our homes, not a commercial rental business, - phone calls always help and I find that a bit of e mail dialogue gives the flavour of the people. Last summer we had guests who rang shortly after leaving to say they had damaged part of the balcony with their tall vehicle, very good of them to call us - it wasn't actually reported by our local management people so we might never have known who it was. They said they would pay for the repairs but we did those ourselves on a later visit and did not ping them anything - bit of a nuisance, but as they stayed three times in total last summer and have already booked again for this summer it was worth it to keep a good relationship. I
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As a 'guest' rather than an owner I have to say that I would assume that if anything was missing I would get charged way over the odds for it (and rightly so, it must be a complete pain to keep replacing stuff) and therefore I am ultra careful with stuff.

I did ask the bloke we are renting from this year whether he had plastic tumblers for the kids, because last year our son broke a glass when it got dropped onto the tiles. When he said he didn't I said we'd take our own. I also asked him whether for small items if they did get broken (which we obviously hope they won't) would he prefer us to replace them and he said no as there weren't any shops nearby and it was easier for him to do it.

I have to say, I prefer it when you are allowed to replace small things as then you know your deposit is 'safe' from unreasonable charges, but in saying that last year we told the owner about the glass, said we had bought a replacement, and he just shrugged and said 'these things happen'.

If you are renting out to families then to my mind it makes sense to provide some cheap tumblers and some plastic/melamine plates for kids to use - I use plastic plates for the kids at home every day! and if you are doing summer rental then a stash of plastic cutlery sounds like a great idea - while you are at it, you could also put some tupperware on the inventory wink The other thing I really appreciate are proper sized mugs - nothing worse than wanting a nice hot chocolate but having to have it in a t-cup!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skimom, the main reason many owners don't like guests to replace broken items is that it often means things then don't match, but then I would never charge for an occasional broken glass or plate, although damage to furniture, missing pillows etc would be a different matter. Glasses often get broken in our dishwasher, and that is not really the guests fault.
There are also some plastic plates and tumblers for young children, although I must confess a guests bought them and left them for us to use, as well as some small cutlery, and a picnic set for the summer.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
skimom wrote:
The other thing I really appreciate are proper sized mugs - nothing worse than wanting a nice hot chocolate but having to have it in a t-cup!


We had an apartment in St Gervais last summer, which was really well-equipped, apart from the tiniest cups I'd ever seen! They were really demi-tasse coffee cups and not worth making tea in, so we bought a few cheap mugs (which went with, although didn't 'match' the dinner service) in the supermarket and left them for the next people. We hoped someone might appreciate tea that was not served in a thimble Very Happy
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Apartments are for losers wink
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