 Poster: A snowHead
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I have finally convinced the girly girl to spend Christmas in a ski resort on the understanding that the place has a fireplace.
Any reccomendations? It has to be relatively cheap, a bit of nightlife and have a good history of snow at that time of year. Also activities outside of skiing would be a bonus but not that important.
I've spent most of my skiing in France and haven't been to other parts of Europe for skiing in at least a decade so am out of touch with the rest.
Really, I am just looking for your favourites or places that have been good for that time of year.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The_Hirsty, well done. You will be deluged by posts saying "we went to resort X last Christmas and there was tons of snow" but you are right to raise the question; historically, snow at Christmas is not very reliable at all though the last two years have been so good that people have forgotten! It might be better to stay in a pretty, proper, village in the valley, with a bit of character, rather than somewhere like Tignes or Val Thorens where the altitude would probably guarantee you snow almost every Christmas, but might also bring with it very low temperatures and bleak windy weather.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| ... historically, snow at Christmas is not very reliable at all though the last two years have been so good that people have forgotten! |
Have to say that's not been my experience, and we've skied at Christmas for most of the last 15 years. All our trips have been to high altitude resorts in France, although Courchevel, Les Arcs and Val d'Isere all have trees to bolt to if the weather is wild. For all our Christmas trips there has always been enough snow to ski, and often good conditions on piste and occasionally off-piste. Even the Christmas of 2006 which was a poor start to the season about 80% Les Arcs pistes were available.
But maybe I'm the first of the deluge and my experience isn't typical...
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rob@rar, Not my experience either. I've been skiing every CHristmas since I was a kid (and that was a long time ago!) and have never had a year where we couldn't ski, and only a couple of years where the snow was very poor and we had to drive out to find it. I've skied all over the place at Christmas, many times in Germany in low resorts when I was young - and since in Austria, France, Switzerland and Italy...and a white christmas every time.
2006 was the worst start we've had in donkey's years, but by the time I went to the Dolomites at Xmas everything was open.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, obviously I wouldn't question your experience in those high resorts, but it remains the case that good Christmas snow, especially at resort level in many traditional towns, cannot be relied upon. I remember very anxiously watching reports (this was before the days of the internet and 24/7 obsessing on webcams) of green pastures where snow ought to be - Wengen was high on the list but I recall problems at Kitzbuhel too. We went to Alpbach in that January and the snow was very poor. In Les Saisies (1650) at Christmas 2002 it poured with rain up to 2000m and the snow was absolute rubbish. So much so that my son flew home to put in four days of long shifts over New Year. And when we arrived there on 30 December 2006 the slopes were in shocking condition - little ribbons of white coming off lifts at 2000m. Fortunately there was a big dump that very night. Yes, there had been some snow to ski on at Christmas (and beautiful warm sunny weather!) but, statistically, Easter is a far better bet in many places.
Advising people about Christmas is quite difficult I think, unless they are very clear about their priorities (e.g. "must have snow, forget about picturesque village" or "must have picturesque village, willing to take bus/gondola to the snow").
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| pam w wrote: |
| Advising people about Christmas is quite difficult I think, unless they are very clear about their priorities (e.g. "must have snow, forget about picturesque village" or "must have picturesque village, willing to take bus/gondola to the snow"). |
There are many different things that people look for in their skiing holiday, and not everyone will have the same priorities. But surely "to be able to do some skiing" is one of the few things that we can all agree on? Charming and picturesque is all well and good, but if it's green and picturesque rather than white and picturesque I'd consider that failed holiday.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Been going away at Christmas for the past 3 years.
2006 to Montgenevre, relatively picturesque (there is better). This was a year notorious for bad snow fall/conditions. You could ski down to resort from both sides of the mountain. Temperatures got way above 10 degrees at lunch time on the sun terraces. The snow was holding up pretty well considering. It is at 1850m, which is considered a safe altitude.
2007 to Montgenevre wonderful snow conditions.
2008 to Montier Les Bains 1500m, Serre Chevalier. The best early snowfall in 30 years apparently.
So I have had good experiences at christmas and love it. Neither of these places fit good apres ski. But Montgenevre is on the cheaper side of French skiing.
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| Quote: |
Charming and picturesque is all well and good, but if it's green and picturesque rather than white and picturesque I'd consider that failed holiday.
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Sorry, I wasn't clear. Somewhere like Megeve is a lovely and sophisticated town with, no doubt, some fireplaces. But from a central hotel you'd go out and way up in a gondola to get to the snow and you might well not be able to ski down. Not necessarily a problem. Alpbach is a picturesque and traditional village, but apart from a nursery slope in the village, which might or might not have much snow on, you go on a bus, then up a lift. Traditional and picturesque places weren't built up on the snowfield, on the whole.
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pam w, plenty of places with fireplaces at altitude as well. We particularly enjoyed Christmas week in the Hotel Courchneige in Courchevel. Great food, comfortable accommodation, lovely bar with comfy leather armchairs and a huge fireplace. Plus you walked through an automatic door from the boot room straight on to the piste. For us a bus ride, then gondola to the snow, and back again at the end of the day, spoils our holiday somewhat. I suppose it just depends on what your priorities are: a picturesque village doesn't score too highly compared to access to reliable and enjoyable skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I suppose those people with transport will do a lot better while skiing in Christmas and not having stuck at only one location. Depending on the size one can access to different area of a resort to get decent snow.
If the snow is poor at the lower part of Courchevel, say La Tania, there is always better snow in Val Thoren which is higher or somewhere in 3 Vallees accessible to 3000m level.
If Alpbach has poor snow a short drive, say 20 to 40 minutes, to Ski Welt or Zillertal Valley will sort it out.
If I can't ski down to the village in Megeve it could be a different story in Les Contamines or Grands Montets, both are easily reached a short journey by car.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
a picturesque village doesn't score too highly compared to access to reliable and enjoyable skiing.
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I agree but when you are taking non-skiers, and possibly reluctant starters, on their first holiday, some compromise is may be called for.  That's what I meant by needing to identify priorities. I adore being in a piste-side apartment with zero nightlife, no shops, a large bottle of malt whisky and a good book, but it's not everyone's idea of a good time.
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| saikee wrote: |
If Alpbach has poor snow a short drive, say 20 to 40 minutes, to Ski Welt will sort it out.
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Seems like an odd thing to say? Ski Welt has no higher slopes than Alpbach, although it does have extensive snow cannon coverage but so does Alpbach...
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You know it makes sense.
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Markus,
Not if you consider Alpback is much smaller with 40km piste while Ski Welt is fully linked by 8 areas making up 250km piste.
Ski Welt is upstream of Alpbach if one travels from German border. Downstream of Alpbach is the Zillertal Valley with 452km piste dotted around by 7 unlinked resorts with the glacier resort Hintertux at the end.
Both Ski Welt and Zillertal are about 20 miles from Alpbach, according to my record. Say driving at 40 mph it is a 30-minute job.
If the snow is no good in Christmas between Ski Welt and Zillertal there will be probably no good snow elsewhere in the Alps.
Alpbach is just an example in Austria. If one goes to Tarentaise Valley in France there are 1600km piste between Valmorel and Val D'Isere within a distance 43 miles. I would be extremely surprised if one can't find nice skiing there. Without own transport then it is a different matter.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 18-02-09 23:58; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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saikee, I agree, the Zillertal is likely to be more snowsure than Alpbach with the Zillertal Arena, Hochzillertal and Mayrhofen resorts all going up to 2500m, and ofcourse with the glacier at Hintertux.
I was just commenting on your idea that Skiwelt is a better bet than Alpbach. In my opinion, if its so bad that you cant ski in Alpbach, the Skiwelt is not going to be much better.
I fully agree with "If there is snow is no good in Christmas between Ski Welt and Zillertal there will be probably no good snow elsewhere in the Alps. " though...
I would even go as far to say that in dry, but cold Decembers the lower resorts with good snow-gun coverage could be a better bet than higher resorts. Pasture land really only requires 30cm+ of snow. Of course, if it rains up to 2000m then theres not much snow-cannons can do...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thank you one and all. It has given me quite a few things to think over.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We went to Morzine this Christmas and had fantastic conditions but then didn't most places. Morzine is low so potentially should not have been so good (we have friends who went one Xmas and had no snow at all). We didn't book until October, however, when the suggestion was that it was going to be a good season (saw something on Snowheads to do with leaves on certain trees falling off early !) Still took a risk but it worked for us.
I think for 2009 we may just book flights to Geneva and look at which resort to choose once the snow starts falling - might not even book a chalet until late November
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is no harm to mention Avoriaz and Les Gets which is next to Morzine and treat it as the French side of the Porte du Soleil even one has no urge to ski to the Swiss side (via Avoriaz).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
If the snow is no good in Christmas between Ski Welt and Zillertal there will be probably no good snow elsewhere in the Alps.
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Well I don't agree with that. Snowfall in the Alps can be pretty localised, and the Alps is a big place covering -what - 6 or 7 countries?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
If the snow is no good in Christmas between Ski Welt and Zillertal there will be probably no good snow elsewhere in the Alps.
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Well I don't agree with that. Snowfall in the Alps can be pretty localised, and the Alps is a big place covering -what - 6 or 7 countries? |
Indeed. Just look at the storm in the Tarentaise just before christmas: 150cm in parts of Val d'Isere, just a dusting elsewhere. It seems to me that at the start of the season there is an ongoing discussion here on snowHeads about where has the best conditions, and it's rare for nowhere to have reasonable snow.
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saikee, kendadj, The Portes du Soleil is not somewhere that should be reccomended early in the season in my opinion. It is low, and Avoriaz which is at a safer height, is butt ugly and not what you want at christmas. If it is a bad year you are likely to be affected badly, like in 2006/7.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 19-02-09 17:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Christopher wrote: |
| Avoriaz which is at a safer height, is but ugly and not what you want at christmas. |
Might not be what you want, but maybe other people have different priorities?
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rob@rar, Well the original poster wanted a fire place. I get the impression that there won't be many of them in Avoriaz. Surely you are more likely to find this in hotels and chalets in traditional resorts. I may be wrong.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Christopher,
Spot on.
I wasn't recommending but feel selling Morzine alone is pretty weak so I mention it is just a small part of a much bigger domain. I totally agree Christmas is a bad time to go there and a real fire inside the concrete jungle of high rise apartment blocks just doesn't mix in Avoriaz.
Mind you Morzine/Les Gets/Avoriaz seems to get good snow every time I visited there as the area is quite far, say 20 minutes to 0.5 hour drive, from the populated main road.
pam w,
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Well I don't agree with that. Snowfall in the Alps can be pretty localised, and the Alps is a big place covering -what - 6 or 7 countries?
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In theorey yes. In practice it isn't because there are more mountains in Austria and many of them are able to keep the cold for being deep inside a dead end valley. I always wonder why places like Ischgl and Lech get more snow than others. Even within a short distance the snow in Saalbach is much better preserved than that in Zell am See.
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| Quote: |
Even within a short distance the snow in Saalbach is much better preserved than that in Zell am See.
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Well exactly. If a short distance can make a big difference (as it did earlier this season when Val D'Isere had an epoch-making dump of snow, whereas Tignes had far less) a few hundred miles east or west (or 100 north or south) can make a big difference too. There was an argument some months ago about the oft-stated comment that the eastern Alps generally has better early snow than the west - but I don't recall anybody arguing credibly that it it was generally much the same all over.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kendadj, Which european airport destination offers the most scope for xmas snow? Geneva saltzburg grenoble strasburg......etc
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Another vote for Courchevel. Admittedly it was Christmas and New Year and admittedly it was Millennium but twas the best Christmas I have ever had.
I think I have nearly finished paying for it too 
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| pembsflyer wrote: |
| kendadj, Which european airport destination offers the most scope for xmas snow? Geneva saltzburg grenoble strasburg......etc |
If you were booking in July say and playing ultra safe without any risk at all then possibly not Geneva but it is well served by airlines at reasonable prices. I did originally fancy something near Saltzburg (e.g. Obertauern to be sure of snow) but could only find Thomson flying there from Manchester at twice the cost of Easyjet. In the end we had plenty of snow in Morzine and better weather conditions that friends who had gone to Obertauern.
I'm not recommending Morzine etc for Xmas snow just saying how it worked out so well for us. I think we will again wait until around October before we book anything - there will always be plenty of availability for chalets and flights (there was at least 30 seats on the Easyjet plane from Liverpool bookable up to a week before Xmas).
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You know it makes sense.
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The_Hirsty, I'm going to have to suggest Chamonix. Christmas is tolerably quiet. If there's no snow (and there hasbene plenty the last 4 years) you have the advantages of it being a town with other things to do. You can even borrow our squash rackets if you need to. It's not, in and of itself, the prettiest of places, but the scenery is amazing.
Nightlife is lively enough.
And for Xmas week you'll find it not too expensive for accom. Unlike New Year.
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