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The Golden Era of Skiing

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
achilles wrote:
DB, wasn't David Goldsmith a Nevica importer? Could that have been the great man's suit?


Probably, although most likely before my time.

Isn't this more David's 'style' these days?

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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
achilles, Nevica - a UK-based ski clothing brand - was founded by Paul Goldstein. Not so much an import (though the clothing is/was an import from his Far Eastern factories) as a British business.

Paul and I both worked for the London retail ski chain Alpine Sports in the mid-1970s. He originally imported an Italian ski clothing brand called Anzi Besson (based in Sauze d'Oulx), but he established Nevica after a couple of years (before 1980, from memory). I lived very near him, knew him well, was sometimes mistaken for him (which was immensely flattering, in joke terms) but Nevica was his enterprise.

I may have worn Nevica at some point in my life, but I can't recall ever admitting it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I had Nevica in apple green with all sorts of other colours on top.

I always thought that was what ski clothing was supposed to look like. Standard kit for the age of plastic boots. Grunge and bagginess made Nevica outdated.
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DB, absolutely, and you need the insulation, even with a blue sky.

I've just descended from a Scottish mountain and its customary dreich*, where I made the mistake of opting for total nudity.



[*Actually, to be fair to Cairngorm, the air was calm and dry, which always makes you think the world has stopped spinning. It wasn't sunny, which was reassuring.]
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Goldsmith, I remember going to Alpinesports in London in the 1970s when visiting my Dad. There was another shop just up the road 'Pindisports'. Pretty sure my school-aged bright purple 'fartbag' came from there. Oh the memories...
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The golden era is up to the individuals. For those who complain about the crowd and the expense, you need to stay ahead of the curve instead of following the herd.

I had a great time in the 80's, when slopes were much less crowded and lift passes were a lot cheaper. It probably helped too that I was living in a very snowy place! Smile

When the crowd on shaped skis (and snowboarders) caught up with me and uphill got much faster (putting more punter on the slope and more expensive), I left the mountains and gone over to nordic skiing. There's peace and quiet with very little expense. I was enjoying the golden era of skiing, albeit not alpine skiing. Wink

Now, I'm with people who knows where to avoid the crowd and outside of resorts, much of what drove me away from the mountain is behind me. Wink So I consider I'm in the golden era of alpine skiing again, FOR ME! Very Happy
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
and Top Gear was better then as well wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
queen bodecia wrote:
David Goldsmith, I remember going to Alpinesports in London in the 1970s when visiting my Dad. There was another shop just up the road 'Pindisports'. Pretty sure my school-aged bright purple 'fartbag' came from there. Oh the memories...
Goldsmith worked at the Alpine Sports in Brompton Rd but, yes, Pindis and Alpine in Holborn were a Mecca to me. Never bought much, just went and gawped at the ski rack, tried on boots, dreamt of having enough dosh to afford a nice skin-tight pair of killy pants and a Powderhorn western-style ski jacket Embarassed Smell of burning wax, a chalk board with "latest" snow depths, jumpers for goalposts...
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Boredsurfing wrote:
and Top Gear was better then as well wink
Yep, Tiff was on it.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Bode Swiller wrote:
Most of all I miss proper moguls.

And fact that it was only the upper middle classes who went skiing?
that's bolleaux I'm afraid (even though you posed it as a question wink ). In the school skiing boom of the 80s around half a million school kids a year, from all walks of life, went to the mountains for the first time. These people are now taking their kids. Ski package holidays for adults cost about the same as a fortnight in Benidorm. Pre the 80s though I guess you're right.


Bode Swiller, ca c'est pas les bolleaux mais c'est possible que tu etait peut etre nee avec un cuillere d'argent dans ta bouche ? Toofy Grin

I started skiing only 10 years ago so from my point of view, the Golden Age has just begun. snowHead My children's school here in Scotland doesn't run said trips but they still manage 10 days or so per year on my wallet. Recollecting my school days in the 80's though, yes the school ran ski trips but it was always the same very exclusive set of kids with well-heeled parents that went. It didn't even occur to the rest of us to think about asking our folks to cough up for the pleasure of sending us away to join them and the toffs probably wouldn't have wanted us oiks there anyway Laughing rolling eyes
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moffatross, sorry, but the wrong end of london wasn't awash with silver-spooned individuals. Cost of a school ski trip mid 70s was around £100. I remember because we were given a card which recorded our installments over the 18 month period leading up to the trip. I got a fiver here and there from the folks and washed a few cars, sold crack cocaine, stole car radios etc to make up the rest (last two were a joke). Christmas and birthday pressies had to be cash. Most other people were the same. When I ended up teaching school kids to ski in the 80s, they were mainly from humble backgrounds.

Anyway, sorry that THE golden era happened before YOUR golden era got going. And, by the way, I'm "Vous" to you NehNeh
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
David Goldsmith, And He's just started a new brand, E+O or something. Dead expensive, lots of dead useful synthetic furs...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Bode Swiller wrote:
moffatross, sorry, but the wrong end of london wasn't awash with silver-spooned individuals. Cost of a school ski trip mid 70s was around £100. I remember because we were given a card which recorded our installments over the 18 month period leading up to the trip. I got a fiver here and there from the folks and washed a few cars, sold crack cocaine, stole car radios etc to make up the rest (last two were a joke). Christmas and birthday pressies had to be cash. Most other people were the same. When I ended up teaching school kids to ski in the 80s, they were mainly from humble backgrounds.


Ah I see. Well, those intervening 10 Thatcher years must have made a world of difference for the two of us and actually, did the £ not take a bit of a dive sometime around 1980 ?

Bode Swiller wrote:
And, by the way, I'm "Vous" to you NehNeh


As a poster in zee French language to a French foroom, pour moi, addressant quelq'un avec un 'vous' au lieu de un 'tu' is internetiquettally un 'faus pas'. Smile Zees is peut etre a generational thing aussi or deed zee evil Witch Maggie corrupt my education too ? Puzzled
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
moffatross, I was only going by the FRACE rule and didn't think I fitted (other than maybe Animal). Alright you can call me "Tu" but only on French forums... which will be never in my case.

One day you'll get over Maggie.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
By avoiding school holidays and the French I find skiing is as good as it can be.

I don't think the Golden era belong to the past because we need accommodation when go skiing, right? Now we can book everything with Internet without talking to a soul! We can choose any resort, any country in the Alps, cheap flights, modern lifts, snow making equipment, forum like this one to get information from, web cams, daily report of snow, large choice of 4x4, snow tyres......

Don't think we have it that good before.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 18-02-09 23:45; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Bode Swiller wrote:
One day you'll get over Maggie.


LOL, never. Laughing I wonder if the teens of the noughties will say the same of Blair in 20 years. Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
moffatross, 'vous' will do here, no matter what you post elsewhere, IMV.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
achilles wrote:
moffatross, 'vous' will do here, no matter what you post elsewhere, IMV.


Is this a very British thang or are you trying to gain rep points for the first part of your signature ? wink
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saikee wrote:
By avoiding school holidays and the French I find skiing is as good as it can be.

What have the French done to you to deserve that statement?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar,

Only the French go out in massive numbers during mid term breaks.

The French are very proud of their own resorts and seldom ski outside their own country in big numbers. I frequently ask owners of the B&B I visited and some of them confirmed never had customers from France.

Other Alpine resorts do not have a massive infrastructure to support a huge influx of visitors so it is quite rare to get really crowdy. Their busy time is the weekends and the capacity like Austria can be measured by the number of car parks available.

Once a resort is not full of people then skiing will be more orderly and enjoyable. If one has an issue of crowd then going to a resort outside France at a reasonable distance away will solve half of the problem.
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OK, so it's not France you dislike, but the level of the crowds there during school holidays. Perfectly sensible, allowing you to enjoy the great skiing that France, like elsewhere, has during the rest of the season.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
saikee wrote:
Only the French go out in massive numbers during mid term breaks

Just out of interest, when do Swiss, Austrian and Italian families go skiing if many of them don't go during school holidays?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar wrote:
saikee wrote:
Only the French go out in massive numbers during mid term breaks

Just out of interest, when do Swiss, Austrian and Italian families go skiing if many of them don't go during school holidays?


Many Austrian familes go to smaller less 'touristy' resorts as they are less crowded and cheaper esp during the school holidays. They also ski at the weekend on changeover-day when the pistes are quieter.
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DB wrote:
Many Austrian familes go to smaller less 'touristy' resorts as they are less crowded and cheaper esp during the school holidays. They also ski at the weekend on changeover-day when the pistes are quieter.

So would it be accurate to say that roughly the same proportion of Austrian families as French families go skiing during school holidays, but they spread themselves over a larger number of resorts, including the smaller resorts?
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I generally find that the Golden Era of Skiing is to be enjoyed in the last week of the season (or maybe the week before that, depending on when Easter falls) in a big high-altitude ski area.

Crowds tend to follow crowds, but they're easily avoidable if you have the flexibility to ski at the end of the season (when the snow is sometimes at its best).
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rob@rar wrote:
DB wrote:
Many Austrian familes go to smaller less 'touristy' resorts as they are less crowded and cheaper esp during the school holidays. They also ski at the weekend on changeover-day when the pistes are quieter.

So would it be accurate to say that roughly the same proportion of Austrian families as French families go skiing during school holidays, but they spread themselves over a larger number of resorts, including the smaller resorts?
Yep, I think Austria officially has something like 2000 "ski areas"... some of 'em just a button lift or two and most Austrians have somewhere to ski within day trip distance so they hit the slopes in more short bursts. Austria is a smaller country (7.5m as opposed to France's 50m+ who are all trying to get to the same half dozen areas at the same time).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Bode Swiller wrote:
Yep, I think Austria officially has something like 2000 "ski areas"... some of 'em just a button lift or two and most Austrians have somewhere to ski within day trip distance so they hit the slopes in more short bursts. Austria is a smaller country (7.5m as opposed to France's 50m+ who are all trying to get to the same half dozen areas at the same time).

OK, thanks for that. Would it be a reasonable conclusion that if you avoid the half dozen resorts that many French skiers are trying to get to during their school holidays the small and less well known French resorts will be as quiet as Austrian ones? Or does Austria have more ski-mileage per head of population than France, so even if all the Austrian families skied at the same time it still doesn't get busy?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
Bode Swiller wrote:
Yep, I think Austria officially has something like 2000 "ski areas"... some of 'em just a button lift or two and most Austrians have somewhere to ski within day trip distance so they hit the slopes in more short bursts. Austria is a smaller country (7.5m as opposed to France's 50m+ who are all trying to get to the same half dozen areas at the same time).

OK, thanks for that. Would it be a reasonable conclusion that if you avoid the half dozen resorts that many French skiers are trying to get to during their school holidays the small and less well known French resorts will be as quiet as Austrian ones? Or does Austria have more ski-mileage per head of population than France, so even if all the Austrian families skied at the same time it still doesn't get busy?


I think you have to remember that virtually anywhere in Austria is within an hour's drive of the nearest ski resort, while huge swathes of France (including most of the more populous areas) are too far away for reasonable day trip practicality.

So I would guess that the Austrians are much more likley to only spend 1-2 days of their holidays skiing, while those French skiers who are too far for day trips will spend several successive days skiing (and staying in holiday accommodation).

But then of course, if you are spending several days away from home, you are more likely to want a larger area, so again I would guess the smaller French resorts are likely to be at least a little quieter.

And then your last question, I think it very likley that Austria does have significantly more ski mileage per head than France does, since so much higher a proportion of the country is mountainous.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The following factors may be relevant to less piste users in Austrai and Switzerland than in France

(1) The snow-sure and large skiing resorts in France located at one end of the country. For Switzerland and Austria their resorts are uniformly spread over the entire country. The Swiss and Austrian do not need to travel long distances to ski and so skiing is a common activity they can do every weekend. Thus it is a rare sign seeing long queue of children, dress up in ski school fittings, following a skiing instructor in their slopes. That alone lowers the queuing problem significantly.
(2) Like other SH have said, Austria and Switzerland have a huge number of tiny resorts with only a few lifts serving the locals. They can learn skiing at a very early stage in resorts not visited by international skiers. It is cheap and safe for them. When they ski in the big resorts inside these countries they are already competent skiers and their resorts are therefore not marketed for beginners.
(3) Switzerland is relatively expensive and not keen to modernise their facilities so many international skiers find better value for money elsewhere.
(4) The high-density, huge, concrete jungle, in-resort high-rise apartment blocks, like those in Flaine, La Plagne, Les Menuines, Val D, Les Arcs… are not to be found in Switzerland and Austria. The Italian resorts I visited also so donot do them. If there is no massive accommodation available there is simply impossible to flood a skiing resort with people.
(5) When one goes during school holiday to a Swiss/Austrian resort not marketed by British TO one find less piste users, the skiers/boarders behave more orderly, there are less skiers/boarders doing things beyond their ability and so less risk to be hit by them then skiing can be a different experience.
(6) There is a large number of Swiss and Austria resorts not marketed by the British TO and so unknown to the British skiers.

Having said the above I know France also have a huge number of tiny resorts with minimal facilities but they are not large enough to support the packaged holiday skiers and so they can remain unvisited by the British skiing public.

It is not my experience to find traffic jam in and out of a resort in Italy, Switzerland and Austria. Spending sveral hours in a stuck car on a change-over day is a French phenomenon.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
alex_heney, OK, that all makes sense. So outside the madness of school holidays in France is it a reasonable to assume that French resorts, including the big ones, are at least as quiet as their Austrian counterparts? After all, the many tens of thousands of French families who managed to squeeze into the resorts during school holidays are mostly back at home in the big cities, so the piste and lift capacity that just about coped with that number are now going to be significantly under-used. Unfortunately I don't have enough recent experience of skiing in Austria to make a personal comparison.
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saikee wrote:
..........(3) Switzerland is relatively expensive ............


That's not been my experience (treating like with like) - but I have not looked at the figures this year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
saikee, they all seem sensible observations, although your point (5) sounds like it might be Brit tourists who are largely responsible for crowds and skiing without much control. That's not my experience I have to say.

Would you agree that outside of school holidays that French resorts are as busy (ie, not very) as their Austrian counterparts.
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rob@rar, I don't have personal experience of skiing in France at all, but what you suggest does seem likely.
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Just had a phonecall from a friend who is Zell am See at present. He said there are "horrendous queues" just now. I would also expect crowds in the larger Austrian resorts at this time, for there are winter school holidays in Germany and Holland (and Austria), for example, and now we are coming up to the last (long) weekend of Fasching/Carnival. Given the new snow that has fallen, I would expect every man (woman and child) and his dog to be heading for the slopes. I would have joined them but I am stuck, waiting for someone to phone me Crying or Very sad

In this way, I wouldn't think that Austria is all that different from France at busy times.
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saikee wrote:


It is not my experience to find traffic jam in and out of a resort in Italy, Switzerland and Austria. Spending sveral hours in a stuck car on a change-over day is a French phenomenon.


I have experienced severe traffic jams in both Austria and Italy.

In Campitello, I don't think it was caused by changeover, but rather by day trippers, as it was catching the bus back from Canazei after getting an hour and a half skiing on arrival. It took 40 minutes to do the 3Km!

But in the Zillertal it was definitely changeover issues.

It took the transfer coach nearly 2 hours to reach the motorway from Zell am Ziller, with no weather issues, just a queue of traffic moving at not much more than 10kph.
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rob@rar,

It is my experience that off the holiday periods France is just as enjoyable as any of the Alpine resorts.

My skiing grew up in France, had 8 years owning a static caravan in Chamonix, visited up to South Alps (L2A/LDH/Serre Chavalier) and have skied more resorts in France than any other country.

My choice, in order of preference, is Austria, Italy, Switzerland and France but that is because I like quiet piste and less risk of being hit by careless piste user. I don't wear a helmet while skiing but I will definitely wear one if I go to France during mid term breaks.

It is a matter of choice. If there are quiet resorts, empty piste, no need to queue to my food, no traffic jam to get in and out, safer skiing then I would spend my money there. The thing that surprises me it is actually easier and cheaper for me to ski in Austria and Italy than in France because their accommodations are easier to book. I raely stay for 7 nights, mostly 3 to 5 nights in everywhere I go, icluding France.
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espri, Looking at the webcams for the Ski Welt (one of the biggest areas in Austria), maybe the locals idea of "horrendous queues" is slightly different in Austria than it might be in France Confused
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saikee wrote:
My choice, in order of preference, is Austria, Italy, Switzerland and France but that is because I like quiet piste and less risk of being hit by careless piste user.

I was trying to understand your assertion that France is busy and dangerous, rather than question your personal preferences. From what people have said in this thread I'm not convinced that Austria (and presumably Switzerland and Italy) are any quieter than equivalent resorts in France, other than during school holidays when the sensible advice would to to avoid those times if you can.
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alex_heney, could be. However, he isn't a local but rather a Glenshee regular, so when he mentioned "horrendous" my heart quivered Laughing But we didn't go into details, so maybe he was only thinking of the first lift up in the morning?
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rob@rar,

I was in Switzerland 3 week in Jan. There were a few runs where I encountered the number of skiers less than the number of fingers in my hand. I did one run from the top to the bottom of a mountain and couldn't see another soul on the piste. Yes France can be quiet too but to a different scale.

Personally I feel very strongly against queues for paying for anything. It is almost like begging people to accept my money and I would have to take whatever I am given, be it on food or a ski pass. At the moment we have plenty to choose from the Alps.

I suppose it is a matter of personal preferrance. I had once queue to spend a penny in France. The urinals were inside a porta cabin. The female queue used the compartments inside the same cabin. The men were peeing in front of the female queue all the time, at a distance of say 10 ft or 3m. It therefore came as a surprise to me when I reached top of a mountain in Zermatt, found out I was the only one there, the interior was better decorated than many international airport I had been and the hot water tap discharged hot water the moment I opened it. May be it is only me I do feel being treated more politely and people serving me food take pride in doing so in Switzerland and Austria regardless how much I spend.

alex_heney,

I have run into jam regularly in Austrian border with Germany but that is a bottle neck on the motorway. I think Austrian resorts favaoured by British TOs can get crowdy. Zell am See and Mayrhofen are popular resorts to us, possibly the TO can do cheap deals with them.

May be I have got used to avoiding crowds. With own car I don't need to arrive at or to depart a resort at peak times. It is fair to say visitors having a flight to catch can have a difference experience.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Thu 19-02-09 13:35; edited 2 times in total
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