 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
We are off to Zell am See in 2 weeks time, and are still having a dilemma about ski lessons for our 4 year old daughter! We are treating this as a "family" holiday - with a proper balance of ski-ing and other family activities.
The truth is, while she goes to nursery 4 days a week, we have never put her into a creche, or group lessons of any other type by herself before. She is not good at joining in group activities (doesn't play "pass the parcel" at her little friends' birthday parties, won't join in nativity play etc).
She has been for 10 lessons on a local dry slope, with a group of other kids, but the parents were there too - to help them on and off tow and encourage them etc. She is going back to this type of lesson in May for another block and will probably continue this pattern for the next few years.
My first question is - is there any real benefit in her going to ski school (2 hours/day) rather than just ski-ing up and down with us? I have to decide if it is worth the worry of sending her. She can do the basics - stop, turn, control speed, use tow. From what I have seen, groups at that age just seem to ski around behind each other, rather than getting very much "teaching" as such (I hope this is not underplaying things too much!) Is it not a question of building up her confidence in the skills she already has, by letting her practice and have fun?
My second question is - would there be any value in getting a private lesson for her, perhaps on day 2 for a hour so the instructor can point me in the direction of what I should be doing with her on the slopes? Perhaps another one later in the trip too? That way I at least know I am not letting her get into too many bad habits. Or is it a waste of time and money getting a private lesson at that age?
This is our first family trip, so any advice would be appreciated!
Many thanks in advance.
L.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lorenzo, whether she's better off with you or the ski school will depend to an extent on your teaching skills (mine are non existent, for skiing or anything else, and I have no patience at all, especially with close family).
I guess that if she's not desperately socialised, she won't enjoy group lessons; I think that liking the company of and joining in with other kids is pretty much a prerequisite for group lessons. One sees the odd group of kids with one or two standing on their own looking cold and fed up while the others are messing about, not necessarily learning to ski but having a good time. Even I feel sorry for them
Is the 2 hours a day in one lump or two? Kids differ a lot, of course, but I reckon that a lot of 4 year olds would find a 2 hour lesson too long. They'll be cold, knackered and bored (serve them right, you might say, but that's not the spirit). Our kids' first skiing was when they were just 4. They had an hour a day, and once or twice my son opted for the second hour in the afternoon, and that was plenty, and it wasn't at all cold (T shirt weather).
A private lesson might be brilliant, or not; it strikes me as a bit of a gamble. She'll need to feel up for it, bond quickly with the instructor and have a good instructor.
Are the lessons provided as part of the creche service? If so, you could just play it by ear and leave it to her whether she goes out for a lesson or two; they'll probably be unwilling to take her out if she doesn't fancy it. That worked fine for us. If the lessons are separate and you pay up front for a course, it's trickier. Probably the best thing to do is to go to the school and see who'll be doing the teaching, and see what your daughter makes of them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lorenzo, difficult. Given what she's done already, I wouldn't have thought you need worry about her missing out too much if she's skis with you. The key thing is that she really enjoys herself and feels pleased with what she's done, so she wants to go next year. If she's controlling her speed, turning and stopping, what more do you expect from a 4 year old? As for "bad habits", I'm not sure there are any at that age (except whining to be allowed to ski with poles and not carrying their own skis!) and several instructors on snowheads have cautioned against trying to make tinies ski like adults.
Our 4 year old did do a week's ski school in Austria, but only on the 2nd week of a two week holiday; she wouldn't have coped the first week, without time spent getting used to the environment and watching the kids in the class. And she was nearer 5 years old - and quite good at joining in things. She asked to be allowed to do ski school (because she fancied the photo and medal at the end!) and we told her she could, but only if she PROMISED not to wimp out and moan. Her only problem was that the only instructor who spoke english was in the class for tinies and one hour of skiing under the Mickey Mouse figures on a practically flat area was more than enough especially as the others were (in her words) "babies". She had had no previous experience, and I would most definitely not have had the confidence to take her up a ski tow, so there was no way we could ski with her (we were all pretty well beginners). But we had explained it would be a bit difficult, and that it cost a lot of money which we were only prepared to pay if she wasn't going to be a PITA and in the end she was fine, despite being spoken to in German all week. she was not a very brave child at all though, and putting her into ski school the day after arriving in the resort would not have worked.
I'd take my cue from her - if she wants to ski in the group, fine. If not, she can ski with you. But either way - good habits. She can carry her own skis! 
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| richmond wrote: |
| Are the lessons provided as part of the creche service? |
Thanks for your helpful reply. We have not booked her into anything just now - I was meaning she had never even been left in a creche at home! When we are not working/at nursery we tend just to do everything together as a family and we are quite happy to treat the holiday in the same way while she is so young. However I don't want her to miss out on meeting new friends and getting more confident in her ski-ing, using the lifts etc IF that was going to work out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lorenzo, you have to go with what you know of her. Our kids were fine in the creche, doing a bit of skiing each day, and then in ski school in subsequent years. By the time they started skiing, they were in nursery school 4 days a week at home, which they enjoyed, so they presumably saw nothing odd about being in a creche, and a bit of skiing seemed to go down well. An advantage of having twins (we do, you don't, SFAIK) is that they always have a familiar face around, which definitely helps. You obviously have reservations about the whole creche/ski school thing, and you may well be right. Personally, I'd give it a go for a day or two, see how it goes. No point in pissing into the wind, but you never know, she might get stuck into it and really enjoy spending time with other kids, including ski lessons.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's an interesting question. At 4, you could probably only take her down the nursery and green runs, possibly a couple of blues (I don't kniow the steepness of the resort you're going to) - do you want to limit your own skiing to those types of runs if she's with you all the time? You would need to hold her at all times on the lifts, as the local company will not allow her to be on the lift by herself (rightly so.). You may also find you have to ski with her either beneath you, or holding onto your poles - this can be extremely tiring for you.
Also, it's important to remember a 4 year old will not ski like an adult, or even an 10 year old. The head is the most heaviest part of the body at that age, and there is little or no muscular strength (the nerves don't even reach properly to the ends of the limbs yet!), so children of that age ski use their skeleton to hold them up. This is why children ski looking like they're sitting on the back foot - it's because they almost are! As she gets older, she'll be able to use muscular strength to hold herself up, but in the meantime, be careful that you don't mistake what you see as bad habits - they're not, they just natural physiological limitations.
Another interesting thing to remember about children this age is that they generally can't separate limb movement. So, if you ask a child to snowplough, he will generally hold his arms out in the same way - it's because they can't distinguish between their arms and legs. Also, children of that age totally learn by following an example, particularly for motor skills. They don't translate a verbal command to a physical one very easily, which is why you see 'serpentines' of kids following an instructor - this can be the best way for them to learn. Remember that teaching methods involve talking, doing and seeing, and at that age, doing is the best method of learning a new motor skill.
There are plenty of other sorts of these examples - I thought you might find it useful information, as you mentioned bad habits. As a ski teacher, I'd say the following are bad habits for a child of that age - not carrying your own skis, not wearing a helmet, removing your gloves, wanting to undo your boots, parents not clothing the child properly and warmly, etc. None would relate to skiing ability. Teach her the basics of skiing etiquette, and the motor skills will follow when they're ready to!
A lesson with a private instructor might be ok, but to be honest with you, she would learn just as much in a group setting. They'll also taker on the mickey mouse runs, etc and all the places that children ski with an instructor - you may find in the resort that you're not allowed to go down those runs without an instructor? This might also be an influencing factor for you.
And just a question - do you think she would mix and mingle with the other children if you weren't there? Really often, I find a child behaves completely differently when the parents are in view - perhaps it might be worth booking her in, and giving it a go? You may find that she spreads her wings a bit if you're not there (I know this is a sensitive subject!!!).
I'm sure you'll have a fantastic holiday, whatever you decide.
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Lorenzo, I know exactly what you're going through. Sounds like you've done the right thing by getting her lessons at a local slope first. Have taken my 3 kids on 3 ski holidays and are off on our 4th in 2 weeks too - can't effing wait.
Last year was the 1st year that our youngest could ski - aged 4. Went to Oberlech and like most/all Austrian ski schools they run for 2.5 hours in morning then same in afternoon. He was not quite strong enough to last all day. We have just recently finished a course of 4 private lessons at Bellahouston and he came on leaps on bounds. We put our older 2 in ski school first 2 trips but have came to conclusion that ski school is a hit or miss.
Are you happy enough to ski at her pace all week? If so then getting a private lesson say during lunch time when it's usually cheaper could be an option. It does sound like though after 10 lessons that she would be pushed on by ski school as she already has the basics. Please emphasise this to the instructors as our 1st day of 1st family ski holiday was ruined when my eldest (8 at time and had already had 10 lessons at Bellahouston) was put in with all the French babies in Belle Plagne. Took him up a class the next day certainly.
Our youngest is now 5 and the difference in a year is quite amazing (admittedly that's only on a dry slope) but we're probably going to put him in a full week of ski school in Stuben and hopefully take him out of it a couple of afternoons so we can ski with him. The idea being that hopefully from next year we should be able to ski as a family - which I can't wait for, as, like you, a family holiday should be a family holiday and not a case of dumping them off to various nannies etc.
I've not compared one full day against 6 days in group but reckon the two would not be far off in terms of ability at end.
I'm sure you'll all love the holiday though
Enjoy
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| boabski wrote: |
| a family holiday should be a family holiday and not a case of dumping them off to various nannies etc. |
Smug cobblers alert.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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no gropu.....is only baby sitter during you ski on your own.....but there's no improvement.......but if she's only 4.....and she can do snouplough.....or she want put the skis parallel....in this case you can try with private.....just 2 hiours.....if she don't put skis parallel.....mean it is too early....and so it's a vaste of money......she just need to be confident ....and who more than the father can give that.......aniway with us at that age she ski like with you.....not a lot of change.....cause any improvement depend at that age.....if really she want change....if not she carry on woth something between snowplough and parallel....in italy we call it baby plough.......go to ski with her that is the best skiing day of your life.......trust me....i have one of the same age...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snowqueen11,
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Another interesting thing to remember about children this age is that they generally can't separate limb movement. So, if you ask a child to snowplough, he will generally hold his arms out in the same way - it's because they can't distinguish between their arms and legs.
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That is so true - I can picture my little one doing it - and having no idea why! Now I know.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just typed long reply saying "thank you" for all the replies, but managed to lose all the text before posting! Anyway, THANKS GUYS.
lungostyle has said what I already suspected - that the main advantage of ski school at that age is to look after them while the parents get out on the slopes.
At the moment my plan is to ski with her for couple of hours in morning (while my wife does ski school), then we can split the rest of the trip between eating, skating, sledging, hotel pool, dad ski-ing himself, mum ski-ing herself, all ski-ing together.
We have other options for childcare as the Grand Hotel has its own children's club, and there is the "miniclub" type ski creche thingmy in resort. We can have a look at these when we are there and decide what to do then. Hopefully she will go to one of these at some point too.
boabski, you flying from Glasgow on 28th? If so, you will hear us at airport - Salzburg flight. My wife is from Newmilns.
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......have a nice holiday.....
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You know it makes sense.
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Lorenzo, could you put something on here about it when you get back as we will be taking our 4 yr old shortly after and I would appreciate the benefit of your experience!!
Have a great time
Many thanks Sam....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Babs 2004, sure thing. Are you going to Zell am See, or somewhere else?
Please send me a private message if I forget to do it!
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Poster: A snowHead
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yeah, we're going to Zell am See, 2nd week march, can't wait!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lorenzo, Flying from Edinburgh to Innsbruck as you can't get flights to Innsbruck from Glasgow - take note Stellios!!!!
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FAQ
) and he loved every minute of it. He didn't go into ski school till the next year though.
