 Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Do you honestly believe Enforcers are better skis to use on piste than the more piste specific models? It all depends what you want to achieve.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I believe less adaptive techinque is required when skiing the whole mountain. I'd rather ski a 103mm on piste than a 80mm off piste. Sidecut permitting. I've converted many people and seen the delight in their eyes when they realise just how simple and normal it is skiing a 90+ ski on piste. And i sell an extra pair of fat skis to all those who ski sub 90mm skis on piste. I want to sell skis, why would I lie?
And yes i believe the Enforcer is the best ALL MOUNTAIN ski available. Maybe my job helps me believe this, skiing lots of skis, in lots of conditions, in lots of resorts. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Rossi 9x WC. World cup, race room, GS Ski. 80mm waist. If they can make that stick, I reckon it's not too great a leap to build a punter AM ski with 5mm more either side of the bindings.
I'm with our cham corespondent on this one.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Back you up there.. the Black Crow Navis 103mm and Enforcer 98mm actually felt easier to tip in than my previous 76's. The major factor seems to be that of finding a ski that responds to your varying inputs... a wider ski that suits you feels as if it tips in with very little effort.
That said, a pair of race skis on corduroy will spin you round with the flex of a toe 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 12-02-09 21:32; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well I can see your point, but it's just as blinkered as anyone advocating narrow skis for absolutely everything. There are plenty of other skiing "gods" who don't agree with you. The Enforcer is a ski I'd put on my own short list, but then I ski a fair amount off-piste and powder. Certainly a lot more than the OP was talking about. I'm a fair bit heavier too at 190 lbs.
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| Cunners wrote: |
| Rossi 9x WC. World cup, race room, GS Ski. 80mm waist. |
Is that the WC or the Oversize version? 80mm waist for a WC ski seems a bit wide.
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uktrailmonster, Dude the whole point is that it's so much easier to ski a wide ski on piste than it is to ski a narrow one off the piste. I've yet to meet anyone (except Plake) that disagrees.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, Dude the whole point is that it's so much easier to ski a wide ski on piste than it is to ski a narrow one off the piste. I've yet to meet anyone (except Plake) that disagrees. |
Yeah I get that dude.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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uktrailmonster, I'm 160 lbs and the wider skis just work so well for me. I'm no great shakes on the mountain (12 wks skiing) but hell... they are so easy to carve the groomed on... and once you get into powder they make life that much easier. I really need to refine my rudimentary skills with regard to off piste but fatter skis have allowed me to enjoy the type of terrain that makes me spend so much time in the mountains.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, errr, you've met me...still got those GS-Rs? You know the market value is about £0.50 now...I'll make you a slightly better offer (my Rossi GS's turn out to be shot...) 
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You know it makes sense.
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Cunners, I don't think the WC WC Rossis are 80 mm underfoot...only the "WC" OS ones (i.e. so you look like you're skiing on race skis when you're not...). The FIS WC GS ski is ~68mm underfoot.
It's still a great powder ski though.
Not nearly as good as the Nordica Dobermann SL-R which is THE most all round ski I've ever come across (and I have...) Powder, bumps, crud, death cookies, these puppies just behave exactly the same in all conditions...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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IMO to ski a wide ski well on piste you have to be a pretty good piste skier. If I were still trying to get to be a pretty good piste skier (or simply enjoyed being on piste a lot!) I'd be looking for a ski that's narrow enough to easily ski well on piste. If I were already a pretty good piste skier or had given up trying to be a pretty good piste skier, and wanted to ski mainly off piste instead (or even just give the impression that I did), I'd get a wide ski. I think most skiers ski mostly on piste and I don't think most skiers are pretty good at it, so their ambitions aside, I therefore think wide skis hold most skiers back. 
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 12-02-09 23:18; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, Are you a good piste skier?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, is the right answer, "No, but I have a huge todger?"
The question, of course, is is the OP a pretty good piste skier.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rob@rar, I don't mean that wide skis hold everyone back, they obviously have their place and are both the most efficient and most fun tools for the right person in the right conditions, just that if you're still at the stage where you need/want to progress on piste, wide skis will hold you back there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| ... if you're still at the stage where you need/want to progress on piste, wide skis will hold you back there. |
Yes, I suppose they do make it more difficult to do some things well (in the same way as narrow skis make it more difficult to ski deep snow well). Perhaps being honest about what your ski priorities are and choose a ski which matches that is the best policy, accepting that all skis are the result of compromise decisions unless you only want to do one thing with them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nope not at all, i watched beginner go from such to an expert in no time, never skied on anything under 98mm, 2 weeks?
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Nope not at all, i watched beginner go from such to an expert in no time, never skied on anything under 98mm, 2 weeks? |
I'd hazard a guess that's fairly untypical 
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| under a new name wrote: |
Cunners, I don't think the WC WC Rossis are 80 mm underfoot...only the "WC" OS ones (i.e. so you look like you're skiing on race skis when you're not...). The FIS WC GS ski is ~68mm underfoot.
It's still a great powder ski though.
Not nearly as good as the Nordica Dobermann SL-R which is THE most all round ski I've ever come across (and I have...) Powder, bumps, crud, death cookies, these puppies just behave exactly the same in all conditions... |
I did suspect the FIS might have something to say about that, but I'd quite like to give 'em a whirl. Mind you i'm still keeping an eye out for the Mighty D-SLR in a hire shop so I can put the claims to the test! Your comments in mind I shall be sure to give em a wipe down first, though 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Nope not at all, i watched beginner go from such to an expert in no time, never skied on anything under 98mm, 2 weeks? |
And on that you base your entire concept of skier progression? Radical indeed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When I started skiing I came from 20 yrs of winter climbing background, was doing some fairly steep off piste in my 3rd week. That's just what I enjoy. SZK may be overstating the amount of people who would get decent use out of wide skis at that stage in their skiing but there are a lot of folk whose main interest is in venturing off piste and who never aspire to perfecting the perfect carving angulation. As stated above... horses for courses... be honest in your ability and aspirations. I'd say that wider skis do need a modicom of carving experience to gain enough confidence to crank them over, narrower skis make this easier to achieve.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarpa, and for those for whom off piste is the thrust, wide skis are indeed the right thing. They're just not for absolutely everyone as some here (not just SZK) who probably ought to know better seem to believe.
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slikedges, Agree... SMALLZOOKEEPER you are a very very naughty rabbit!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Who's to say whether it's talent, are you then saying that narrow waisted skis are for talentless piste limpets? For what it's worth i learned to ski on 184cm WC GS skis, but quickly moved over to a 95mm ski so as to take full advantage of the variety of terrain. I can only see a narrow waisted ski being of use when edge to edge speed is of importance, ie gates and skiing quickly on the piste during a busy february holiday. Otherwise i don't get it at all. Get no quicker when skiing my 103mm or 63mm skis from the top to the bottom of the GM.
slikedges, Can i ask when you learned to ski the piste and if indeed you are a competent piste skier (by which i mean able to ski at differing speeds, applying different techniques, variable turn radiuses (i) in varied conditions?)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm interested in this talent thing. What is talent? I'll start a new thread i think. Gona love this one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Cunners wrote: |
| Rossi 9x WC. World cup, race room, GS Ski. 80mm waist. |
Is that the WC or the Oversize version? 80mm waist for a WC ski seems a bit wide. |
I tried the oversize version last week. 80mm underfoot, 170 long and a radius of 17m (for all you BASI bods). A little softer than the race ski and great all round ski 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stewart woodward, I bet. I think for most reasonably "good" piste skiers, something like the Rossi Oversize range is probably going to give them a better mix of on piste fun with enough width to start thinking about off piste than many "all mountain" skis.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Get no quicker when skiing my 103mm or 63mm skis from the top to the bottom of the GM.
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It's just a compromise. What's actually wrong with a decent pair of 80 mm waist AM skis for an average skier spending 90% of their time on piste and the other 10% on easy off-piste? Especially if they're fairly light as well. If the focus is more off piste then yeah why not go wider. But the wider you go the slower they are changing edges, particularly in short radius turns on hard pistes. They are generally harder to improve your basic technique on. Looking around the average piste, most skiers you see on fattish AM skis are just skidding around anyway and would probably benefit significantly from a better piste ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, Nothing wrong with it in theory, but a wider ski will make it easier and require a less adaptive technique, perhaps then the percentage of time spent off piste might increase??????????
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I think you're over-stating the importance of a wide ski for off-piste. I was on the chair with my 100 mm wide powder skis (2 feet of fresh powder, first lift) with 2 guys next to me. One of them is on fairly fat skis like mine, the other is on a pair of early 90s skinny as you like slalom skis. We both look at him and the guy with the fat skis says "Jesus, it's going to be a tough day on those skis mate". The guy with the skinnys casually replies "Well I grew up over in Whitewater, I'm used to skiing this stuff nearly every day". So we get to the top. The guy with the fat skis sets off in the style of Jody Kidd on Ski Sunday the other day (i.e. rubbish). The guy from Whitewater rips down through the trees like it's nothing. It reminded me how little your kit has got to do with it. I suppose on that basis who cares what skis we choose to buy?
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So can you answer the question?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
So can you answer the question? |
I can. I've only seen him do a few turns on an indoor slope, and that was before I knew who he was, but that was enough for me to conclude he's a pretty good skier. Although anyone who knows what they are talking about should be able to see where he is coming from just by reading his contribution in this thread, so I'm not sure that self-declared ability rankings really add that much to the debate.
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Ok, so slikedges, when you learned to ski, did you learn on narrow or wide skis?
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FAQ
