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Is Driving downhill in snow easier than uphill if not using chains

 Poster: A snowHead
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Is Driving downhill in snow easier than uphill if not using chains...heading to the Italan Alps and hiring a car, if on the way back to the airport (having driven it before it is all downhill or level) , we are faced with moderate/heavy snow.
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In so much that if you are trying to go up your wheels will just spin. Going down you will continue downwards but not necessarily where you want to go ie over the edge, into the side, into a spin!
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kendub wrote:
Is Driving downhill in snow easier than uphill if not using chains...

No. As ColinB says, it can be more dicey. Going up, you may just stick. Going down, you may not - that is the problem. You have to be very careful (with chains too).
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kendub, I'd much rather fail an ascent than not be able to stop going downhill. If front wheel drive with chains on the front, the back end can still slide and overtake the front.
You have much more control going up hill. Use low gear, avoid braking, minimise steering inputs and if you do start to slide try and aim for the soft stuff at the side of the road. I'd go with chains if they're available, especially if you haven't got winter tyres fitted. Good luck.
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Just to add to Spyderman's good comments.....If you let some air out of the tyres this will also help with grip (dont forger to reinflate when at lower level!!!!)......Avoid braking with low as gear as possible and try to go on the soft stuff (avoid anything shiny) - Its not your car so let the engine scream away Twisted Evil

You can always park the car at a lower level when the roads are clear and get the bus down when you are leaving if bad weather is prevailing!!!! Crying or Very sad
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I have seen many a wrecked car where they cant turn or stop when trying to drive downhill without chains. Even in my trusty 110 Defender with permanent FWD you really do have to take care on both packed and fresh snow.

I once saw of Volvo estate bouncing of the rocks on a bend because the camber in the road was forcing the car into the bend where is was just a rock face. Its a painful and expensive way to learn that chains can be necessary at times.
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On a downhill descend if the vehicle were going too fast and needs to be slowed down then choose a straight section to brake.

I suppose it is no different from the normal driving always slow down enough before entering a bend. Always accelerate out of a bend. A gentle application of the accelerator can help gripping the bend better, just put the drive motion in but not actually accelerating.

I drove over the Julier Pass (between Davos and St Moritz) yesterday twice and everything was white. I was on a Shogun with a newish all-season tyres, which I use only for the skiing trip. The tyres are the most important factor. A 4x4 on a wrong set of tyres is just as lethal.

Under-inflated tyres are a good way to increase grip on snow covered surface.
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If you find yourself having to brake on snow and start sliding, DO NOT let off the brake pedal. You want to encourage a wedge of snow to build up under the leading edge of the wheel to help bring you to a stop. Steering gently towards the kerb can also help stop you. I regularly drive offroad and failed ascents are one of those things that annoy, but you just stick it in reverse, go back down using engine braking and a little throttle if required then try again. Failed descents on the other hand..... Shocked
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The only advantage 4WD can offer down hill is engine braking being transmitted through 4 wheels rather than 2. In fact a 4WD can be a disadvantage, because by design they are heavier vehicles, which will overcome the available mechanical grip that much sooner. The only safe way is good mechanical grip through using winter tyres/Snowchains.
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Quote:

I'd much rather fail an ascent than not be able to stop going downhill.

Absolutely. I drive quite a bit on snowy roads and it's the downhill bends that scare me.
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Quote:

I'd much rather fail an ascent than not be able to stop going downhill.

Same here.

When traction fails on uphill, you gradually slow to a stop. When traction fails on downhill, you keep on going faster and faster...Sad
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I drove down from Les deux alpes in snow... some people did it without chains, some with. The ones with had a clear and definete advantage...
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SCOUSE wrote:
Just to add to Spyderman's good comments.....If you let some air out of the tyres this will also help with grip (dont forger to reinflate when at lower level!!!!).:


NO! Common misconception. You deflate your tyres to cope with soft snow for the following reasons. A typical slippery road is not generally that sort of a place. Chains are not particularly useful in soft snow. Deflating tyres is a completely different scenario.

http://www.4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand-deflate.html
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Just remember, you cannot drive TOO slowly when on a slippery surface.
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James the Last wrote:
SCOUSE wrote:
Just to add to Spyderman's good comments.....If you let some air out of the tyres this will also help with grip (dont forger to reinflate when at lower level!!!!).:


NO! Common misconception. You deflate your tyres to cope with soft snow for the following reasons. A typical slippery road is not generally that sort of a place. Chains are not particularly useful in soft snow. Deflating tyres is a completely different scenario.

http://www.4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand-deflate.html


You post is very confusing to me. You state 'you deflate your tyres to cope with soft snow for the following reasons' and then don't give any reasons Puzzled

You air down tyres to increase the tyres surface area, very useful in conditions where there is no hard surface to be found under the tyres such as Sand, deep Mud and deep Snow. This help keep the vehicle on top of the surface rather than digging into it.
On a typical mountain road keep them inflated in order to cut through the snow to find the Tarmac below, as well as applying more pressure on the chains.
Chains can be very useful for traction in soft snow, as long as it isn't bottomless. Really good in Mud too.
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Spyderman wrote:
I'd much rather fail an ascent than not be able to stop going downhill.

Just like skiing, isn't it? Laughing
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The reasons are in the link that follows...

As you state yourself On a typical mountain road keep them inflated in order to cut through the snow to find the Tarmac below, as well as applying more pressure on the chains.
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Quote:

If you find yourself having to brake on snow and start sliding, DO NOT let off the brake pedal.

Hmm... Recently when I was descending round a right hand bend, ultra slow on an icy snow covered road in Les Gets, (rear wheel drive and chains on rear), my front tyres suddenly lost traction and I started sliding towards the middle of the road and into the path of a van coming in the opposite direction up the hill rather quickly. Against my natural instinct, I immediately released the brakes causing me to scarily accelerate - the tyres suddenly found traction and pulled me round the corner and on to the straight. It was all spilt second stuff.

I think there are a lot more variables to consider regarding the conditions as to whether to brake or not....
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More worrying... if you have ABS, then don't expect to be able to stop on soft snow.

ABS works by stopping the brakes each time the wheels nearly lock up.

The only way to come to a stop on soft snow is for the wheels to lock and push snow in front of them.

With some cars it is apparently worth contemplating taking out the fuse that operates the ABS if on soft, non-packed snow.
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The main aim of ABS is to allow the driver to remain in control of the car and steer out of trouble. Once the front wheels lock, the only directtion the car is going is in a straight line. If you rely on a build up of snow in front of the tyres to stop then you are driving to fast for the conditions and available grip.
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Tatty, You did the right thing. Control of the vehicle in reliant on the mechanical grip of the tyres. If driving on Ice, mechanical grip is very low and can easily be overcome. If the wheels start to slide, the mechanical grip is insufficient to control the vehicle, therefore no braking or steering. It's important to match the wheel speed to the available grip levels, so that the wheels rotate without skidding, then steering will be restored.
I quite often start to slide when taking on steep descents on muddy slopes, secret is, slowly as necessary using the gearbox for engine braking, but keep the wheels rotating, if they start sliding accelerate gentle to restore grip, if you brake you'll lose control.
This guy braked, rather than accelerated when he started to slide.
http://uk.youtube.com/v/TWAdgu7NTL4

dz4d1v, Agreed, but if you are driving in soft snow, turning the ABS off will substantially reduce stopping distances.
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Quote:

The only way to come to a stop on soft snow is for the wheels to lock and push snow in front of them

It is not the only way, but loose surfaces such as snow & gravel are the only time a locked wheel can stop as fast as or quicker than a (braking) rolling wheel.
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I crossed the Col du Lauteret 10 times in 5 days recently. Nine of these were in snowy conditions, and I drove myself on 6 of them, going downhill was most definitely the more scary, uphill was no problem.
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James the Last wrote:
SCOUSE wrote:
Just to add to Spyderman's good comments.....If you let some air out of the tyres this will also help with grip (dont forger to reinflate when at lower level!!!!).:


NO! Common misconception. You deflate your tyres to cope with soft snow for the following reasons. A typical slippery road is not generally that sort of a place. Chains are not particularly useful in soft snow. Deflating tyres is a completely different scenario.

http://www.4x4abc.com/jeep101/soft-sand-deflate.html



It also depends on the circumstances......The origional post was for traction "without chains".....It also depends on what you are trying to achieve and also what conditions you are driving in: ie in heavy fresh snow ...Going uphill with deflated tyres will reduce dig in (lower resistance) and give a larger surface area to gain traction......Potentially deflating tyres in heavy fresh snow downhill could have a slight counter effect in that the build up of snow in front of the will not be as deep as it will not dig in as much due to the additional surface area however this would not have as significant effect on the tyre sizes of a standard small family car as you would get on a 4x4....The article does say that you should invest in a taller and "wider" tyre for snow and sand use.

The ideal is not to drive in bad conditions...but we may agree to disagree on this one as do other 4x4 forums (see link) Puzzled

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/cs/offroadingtips/ht/blsandsnowmud.htm

However I do understand your principles!

In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake. If your brake is locked in a car without ABS you conduct cadence braking (quick release and reaplication of the brake in lock up situation)....I can potentially see the principle of building up a barrier of snow in front of the tyres but the top & bottom of it is, if the conditions are that bad you should not be driving without chains or at all.

Another thing that may be of assistance if you have no uphill traction is to temporarily turn off the traction control (if fitted and available) as this cuts power from the engine when it detects wheel slip.

Safe driving and happy hols all.... snowHead
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Quote:

Chains are not particularly useful in soft snow.

Oh dear. I must have been very confused on the (number of) occasions in the last six years when I lost traction in soft snow, put the chains on and then carried on happily gripping the road. On one of those occasions, with four new snow tyres, up a fairly steep hill, one or two inches of very melty slush (a sudden snow shower towards the end of April, onto a warm road) had been enough to cause the loss of traction.
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I don't mind driving in the snow (had a fair bit of practice) and I know I'd definitely prefer uphill to downhill, you've got far more chance of staying in control...

Just remember a few simple rules, don't use first gear, only use the brake at walking pace, use engine braking to reduce speed...

In your scenario I'd hire snow chains, it may well be a bit dicey without...

P.S. I also disable the traction control and ABS on my car in the snow as advised in the handbook. I guess these gimmicks just can't cope with adverse conditions and driver ability needs to take over...
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SCOUSE, Sorry, but most of what you've written is total tosh.
Firstly we're talking about driving on mountain tarmac roads, not across open snowfields, or glaciers in Iceland.
I'll take your points in order.
Quote:
Going uphill with deflated tyres will reduce dig in (lower resistance) and give a larger surface area to gain traction.

Traction on snow covered tarmac is gained by cutting into the surface of the snow, ideally to the tarmac below, by lowering tyre pressure, yes you will reduce 'dig in' but you will increase rolling resistance not lower it. Unless you're driving across a glacier, you want to reduce the surface area of the tyres so they cut into the surface, not float on top. Have you not noticed that snow tyres are normally tall & skinny? Take a look at an Andros trophy race car, tall, skinny studded tyres, to bite into the surface.
By having wider tyres by lowering pressures, you're creating more drag and resistance which has to be overcome by the traction from the tyres and torque from the engine.

Quote:
In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.

Quote:

Another thing that may be of assistance if you have no uphill traction is to temporarily turn off the traction control (if fitted and available) as this cuts power from the engine when it detects wheel slip.

Turn to TC off? so you sit there spinning? The idea is to match wheel speed to road speed. You don't want the wheels to spin, so why would you possible want to turn the TC off?
Uphill & flat ground - As high a gear as possible, with minimum engine revs, pull away in second gear if possible, to reduce wheelspin. If traction is lost back off the accelerator, until wheel speed matches road speed.
Downhill - Low gear, use engine braking, avoid using brakes to slow down, be smooth with steering. If wheels start to lose traction, accelerate briefly and gently to regain matched wheel/road speed, then back off slowly. Use soft snow areas to brake, as these offer maximum resistance.
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My top tip for driving on snow:

Insist on a car with a manual gearbox.

We got an auto last week because they had nothing else. Struggling up an icy road and suddenly having an unexpected burst of torque to the front wheels when the car changes down a gear of its own volition is really, really, not funny.
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paulio, Automatics are very good in winter conditions, as long as the gearbox allows you to lock in a particular gear or has a winter setting. You get constant drive with an auto, a thing you don't get with a manual as you depress the clutch to change gear, the torque delivery is not as smooth.
All of the Glacier 4x4s are autos.
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"as long as..."

Well, quite. It didn't.

I definitely wouldn't describe the torque delivery in the car I'm referring to as 'smooth'. Horrible little thing, it was.
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I did pay a lot of attention to the other vehicles in my last 3-week tour of Switzerland, going out deliberately when it was snowing heavily as we were put off by the poor visibility of skiing and got nothing to do. We were on a 4x4 automatic with normal but newish all season tyres (with a block tread pattern suitable for "mud & snow" and small amouint of the basic zig-zag micro grooves). We did have a set of snow chains just in case.

I didn't find any mishaps by other vehicles. The drivers were obviously driving carefully and slowed down adequately for the bad weather. The majority was on normal 2WD vehicles with winter tyres and that was the situation going through the Julier Pass between Davos and St Moritz, when everything was white and it was almost impossible to see the direction ahead except for the huge cut out in the snow for the road.

My point is if the going gets tough slow the vehicle down. A sudder burst of torque delivery is a clear indication of inappropriate speed. We are talking driving a vehicle with a loose layer of snow between the tyres and the road surface. Surely it is up to the individual to moderate the speed until the change of direction and speed could be safely accommodated. There are always laybys for veicles going slower than the rest so use them.
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saikee wrote:
A sudden burst of torque delivery is a clear indication of inappropriate speed.


Or a clear indication of having a hopeless Citroen auto gearbox.
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On a very slippy descent I try to kill almost all the speed on the straight sections before the bends, mainly using the gears / engine to slow me down but using the brakes lightly if additionally required. Heavy SUV's / 4x4's are a major cause for concern (esp if they are not from an alpine or nordic country) because they are heavier and tyre specs are often not full winter tyres making their breaking distance a lot longer than mine. If such a vehicle is close behind me I will slow right down on the straight to force a bit of space between us even if this means showing the driver behind me at which point his ABS starts working or his car begins to slide. Don't want the SUV pushing me into the path of an oncoming vehicle or over the side of an alpine road. On entry to the bend I lightly as possible apply the throttle so that the front wheels pull the car ever so slightly through the bend.

Leaving plently of space between cars helps on descents.
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Quote:

Quote:
In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.


The only way I could turn my ABS off, would be to remove the fuses or whatever. I can see it is fine if, as many cars do, have switchable ABS, TRaction etc. But I suspect that my insurance company would take a dimm view of me removing a safety system the manufacturer had intended to be always there?
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For my car van thing.... rear wheel drive with no weight in the back and no ABS or TC (which is all really useful!)...

going down is poo! Scary stuff at times but normally controllable if you are driving at a sensible speed and don't loose your cool!... For my car short bursts of 'tapping' the brake pedal, slightly deflated tyres (Mud and Snow), chains when necessary.
Engine braking is a lifesaver but when gear changes are needed (which they normally are in my heap of poo) then be prepared!

Going up - normally a pain in the whatsits! Worst thing is having to slow down for any unaware pedestrians on uphill bends, and being behind a snow-on-the-road-in-England type of driver!

I have a Hyundai Starex (H1) and it is rubbish and I want a new car and now I am crying! Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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flangesax, read this with out being logged in, knew it was you. You didn't spill all the beans!
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Spyderman wrote:
SCOUSE, Sorry, but most of what you've written is total tosh.
Firstly we're talking about driving on mountain tarmac roads, not across open snowfields, or glaciers in Iceland.
I'll take your points in order.
Quote:
Going uphill with deflated tyres will reduce dig in (lower resistance) and give a larger surface area to gain traction.

Traction on snow covered tarmac is gained by cutting into the surface of the snow, ideally to the tarmac below, by lowering tyre pressure, yes you will reduce 'dig in' but you will increase rolling resistance not lower it. Unless you're driving across a glacier, you want to reduce the surface area of the tyres so they cut into the surface, not float on top. Have you not noticed that snow tyres are normally tall & skinny? Take a look at an Andros trophy race car, tall, skinny studded tyres, to bite into the surface.
By having wider tyres by lowering pressures, you're creating more drag and resistance which has to be overcome by the traction from the tyres and torque from the engine.

Quote:
In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.

Quote:

Another thing that may be of assistance if you have no uphill traction is to temporarily turn off the traction control (if fitted and available) as this cuts power from the engine when it detects wheel slip.

Turn to TC off? so you sit there spinning? The idea is to match wheel speed to road speed. You don't want the wheels to spin, so why would you possible want to turn the TC off?
Uphill & flat ground - As high a gear as possible, with minimum engine revs, pull away in second gear if possible, to reduce wheelspin. If traction is lost back off the accelerator, until wheel speed matches road speed.
Downhill - Low gear, use engine braking, avoid using brakes to slow down, be smooth with steering. If wheels start to lose traction, accelerate briefly and gently to regain matched wheel/road speed, then back off slowly. Use soft snow areas to brake, as these offer maximum resistance.


SPYDERMAN

[quote="Spyderman"]SCOUSE, Sorry, but most of what you've written is total tosh.

Firstly we're talking about driving on mountain tarmac roads, not across open snowfields, or glaciers in Iceland.


1. Like I stated it depends on the conditions in relation to tyre pressure.

Quote:
In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.

2. Would you like to quote that statement in a court of law after you have killed someone? Disconnecting the ABS is an absolute offence that is prosecutable (including points on your licence). This law covers the UK & Europe.....You dont believe me? Contact the Dept for Transport (VOSA) and ask them (enquiries@vosa.gov.uk).

Quote:

Another thing that may be of assistance if you have no uphill traction is to temporarily turn off the traction control (if fitted and available) as this cuts power from the engine when it detects wheel slip.

Turn to TC off? so you sit there spinning? The idea is to match wheel speed to road speed. You don't want the wheels to spin, so why would you possible want to turn the TC off?

3. Like I stated "If you have NO uphill traction". Traction control will cut engine power so you will not go anywhere.

PS we are not in a rally and it totally depends on the conditions.......I DID agree in certain conditions you are correct.....I also stated if the conditions are that bad you should not be driving without chains.
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SCOUSE,
Quote:
SCOUSE wrote: In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

Spyderman wrote:{/b]It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.

[b]SCOUSE
2. Would you like to quote that statement in a court of law after you have killed someone? Disconnecting the ABS is an absolute offence that is prosecutable (including points on your licence). This law covers the UK & Europe.....You dont believe me? Contact the Dept for Transport (VOSA) and ask them (enquiries@vosa.gov.uk).


I stated it is not an offence to switch off the ABS, I said nothing about tampering with the braking system. It is not an offence to switch it off.
Please read the article below from the AUDI website. It states quite clearly that braking distances are increased when using ABS in soft snow & gravel.
http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/tools/glossary/safety/anti_lock_braking_system.html

SCOUSE wrote:
Quote:
3. Like I stated "If you have NO uphill traction". Traction control will cut engine power so you will not go anywhere.

Traction Control, reduces engine power and applies brakes to the spinning wheel, to allow the wheel rotational speed to match road speed, as well as allowing the differential to send power to the wheel which has more traction. If TC is switched off, the power will go to the wheel with less traction and you will go nowhere. A differential without some sort of control, whether it be electronic or mechanical in the form of either a limited slip or locking system, will always send power to the wheel with least resistance.
Very basic stuff I'm afraid, which you seem not to have grasped.

This might help too, from Govt. of Quebec website and they should know about driving in winter conditions. Explains why you shouldn't reduce tyre pressures and also that ABS Brakes can lengthen braking distances in soft snow.
http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/portal/page/portal/grand_public_en/vehicules_promenade/securite_routiere/securite_conditions_hivernales/conseils_securite
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Spyderman wrote:
SCOUSE,
Quote:
SCOUSE wrote: In regards to disconnecting the ABS......Apart from it being an offence....It is a safety feature to "prevent" lock up. There is nothing worse than a locked brake.

Spyderman wrote:{/b]It is not an offence to switch off the ABS. Braking distances are considerably reduced in soft snow and gravel, when the ABS is switched off. A wedge of snow/gravel forms in front of the locked wheel.

[b]SCOUSE
2. Would you like to quote that statement in a court of law after you have killed someone? Disconnecting the ABS is an absolute offence that is prosecutable (including points on your licence). This law covers the UK & Europe.....You dont believe me? Contact the Dept for Transport (VOSA) and ask them (enquiries@vosa.gov.uk).


I stated it is not an offence to switch off the ABS, I said nothing about tampering with the braking system. It is not an offence to switch it off.
Please read the article below from the AUDI website. It states quite clearly that braking distances are increased when using ABS in soft snow & gravel.
http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/tools/glossary/safety/anti_lock_braking_system.html

SCOUSE wrote:
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3. Like I stated "If you have NO uphill traction". Traction control will cut engine power so you will not go anywhere.

Traction Control, reduces engine power and applies brakes to the spinning wheel, to allow the wheel rotational speed to match road speed, as well as allowing the differential to send power to the wheel which has more traction. If TC is switched off, the power will go to the wheel with less traction and you will go nowhere. A differential without some sort of control, whether it be electronic or mechanical in the form of either a limited slip or locking system, will always send power to the wheel with least resistance.
Very basic stuff I'm afraid, which you seem not to have grasped.


IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU DISCONNECT OR "SWITCH OFF THE ABS" IT IS STILL AN OFFENCE IRRESPECTIVE OF BRAKING DISTANCES OR WHAT AUDI SAY ABOUT IT. IF FITTED IT "MUST" BE IN WORKING ORDER. IF YOU WANT I CAN SEND YOU A COPY OF THE CATEGORISATION OF DEFECTS RELATING TO BRAKING SYSTEMS!

"VERY BASIC STUFF?" I KNOW EXACTLY HOW TRACTION CONTROL WORKS. I STATED IF YOU HAVE "NO" TRACTION (WHEN TRYING TO GO UPHILL AND SLIP OCCURS TO BOTH WHEELS). NO TRACTION = STATIONARY.

"TRACTION CONTROL DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO INCREASE TRACTION" - IT ONLY ATTEMPTS TO STOP THE WHEELS FROM SPINNING (BY REDUCING POWER/APPLYING BRAKES ECT)". IF YOU ARE STUCK IT MAY HELP YOU GET MOVING AGAIN IF YOU TEMPORARILY TURN OFF THE TC.

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA OR LIMITED EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN TRYING TO DEFEND YOUR COMMENTS BY CUTTING AND PASTING FROM VARIOUS SITES AND SLAGGING PEOPLE OFF!

BELIEVE ME I SHOULD KNOW.....IT IS MY JOB TO KNOW

AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ARE TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE & NOT USING THE FORUM TO SLAG PEOPLE OFF! WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?
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SCOUSE, You can stop shouting now. I've said nothing about disconnecting the ABS system, I agree if it's fitted it must be in working order. I stated that switching it off in deep snow and gravel reduces stopping distances. If Headlights are fitted they must work, but I can still switch them off. Switching something off doesn't make it defective, if it can be switched on again on demand. Of course it only applies to cars manufactured after 2002 anyway.

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"TRACTION CONTROL DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO INCREASE TRACTION"

Why have you quoted that? I never said anything like that Puzzled

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IF YOU ARE STUCK IT MAY HELP YOU GET MOVING AGAIN IF YOU TEMPORARILY TURN OFF THE TC.
How? I cannot think of one situation where turning off TC would help get you moving.

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BELIEVE ME I SHOULD KNOW.....IT IS MY JOB TO KNOW

Your job sounds to me like an MOT Tester. Knowing how the mechanical system should work in relation to the law, does not mean you know how to use it.

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YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA OR LIMITED EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN TRYING TO DEFEND YOUR COMMENTS BY CUTTING AND PASTING FROM VARIOUS SITES AND SLAGGING PEOPLE OFF!

I have plenty of experience, both driving on snow and off-road and build on that experience on a sometimes daily basis. What experience do you draw from?
I posted here to help people and have contradicted what you've said for the very same reason.
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