 Poster: A snowHead
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Surely we're talking about a handful of loons here, not the majority of slope users. Destroying the fun of thousands by not grooming pistes just to slow down a handful of imbeciles is draconian in the extreme and will probably end up deterring the sort of people we should be encouraging to visit ski resorts...
Not sure what the answer is. Licensing certainly doesn't keep the behaviourly-challenged off our roads. The woman that caused the crash that made my mother permanently disabled had neither a license nor insurance, yet a paltry court fine and driving ban didn't stop her at all. My sister regularly sees her driving a car, often with unrestrained children inside...
There are simply some people out there who have no thought or consideration for others. I don't even like sharing a planet with them let alone a piste, but thankfully they are a small minority, so I try not to let the thought of them spoil my fun...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, hmmmm, a less idiotic skier?
Well, as we know, a licence imbues increased culpability . . . but only if there's suitable supervision . . . However, the ubiquity of RDIF lift pass systems makes this a possibility. Requiring a demonstrable and documented knowledge/ability to gain access to more demanding terrain is easily achievable within existing systems . That also makes it easy to police. That would limit the unskilled idiots to the lower slopes where they will be most obvious and easily aprehended.
I know you've enjoyed extensive instruction and wide experience . . . you've made those decisions and as a result you ski in areas that require your level of skill to stay safe . . . May I assume that you'd like the others on the same pitch to be equally informed?
Whilst none of us can demand that people don't behave like idiots, we can require that they have the information, knowledge and skills to define the difference between maestro or muppet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The answer is "we" don't do anything about it other than giving idiots a possibly very ripe piece of our mind every time we see stupid behaviour. Resorts have more power to do something about it, although I understand there may be limitations but until it seriously impacts their business probably won't. People don't read signs, use basic spacial awareness, aren't cogniscent of other slope users becuase they are on holiday or its the weekend and they've turned their brains off.
Like it or not improved groomers lead to a culture of many people, who are predisposed to being dangerous (e.g. young males in gangs) thinking they are great skiers becuase they can "do" a red or a black.
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Masque, the biggest problems that I see are uncontrolled speeding skiers on relatively gentle terrain. Some sort of RFID controlled gates to limit access to particular terrain won't address that, unless you are proposing some sort of unquantifiable 'responsibility test' to access even the baby slopes? I don't see, for example, how you can limit access to the the slope that easiski mentioned above, where she was hit while riding a nursery lift?
I'd much rather see the T&Cs of liftpasses include a clause that the pass can be removed for a specified period (eg a day, a week or until it expires) by authorized personnel (pisteurs, 'plain clothes' ski inspectors, instructors, trained volunteers?). Resorts and lift companies would need to get serious about ensuring those skiers who disregard their personal responsibility towards others are (a) aware of the consequences of their actions, and (b) face appropriate penalties if they ski recklessly and dangerously. I'd be more than happy to volunteer half a dozen days each season to help reinforce a tougher line against idiot skiers and boarders, perhaps in return for a bit of a discount on my season pass.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Like it or not improved groomers lead to a culture of many people, who are predisposed to being dangerous (e.g. young males in gangs) thinking they are great skiers becuase they can "do" a red or a black. |
These are the same people who think they are good enough to take any off-piste route they can see, regardless of avy risk and who else might be on the slope at the same time as them. And they are the same kind of skiers who think it's fun to try to straightline a bump field despite having nothing like the skills required to stay in the zipline. It's not the terrain that makes them idiots. Complex terrain does not make them more responsible slope users.
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Sadly, I have just read a report (in German) of another fatal accident, today in Zell am See. Few details yet, though it was again a collision between two skiers. http://salzburg.orf.at/stories/337527/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| However I grabbed him by the jacket to stop him running off and wouldn't let go until I'd given him a serious piece of my mind |
Good on you! 
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espri, says little beyond what you said - no details at present. Ski defensively, people.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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stanton, and how does Brit-bashing add to this discussion? Well done for dragging a good debate down to your usual xenophobic and unpleasant level.
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Hurtle, there is definitely a problem with British resort workers.
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You know it makes sense.
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PJSki, is there? I've seen skiers of all nationalities (including Brits, of course) behaving like tw@ts, didn't realise that Brits had a monopoly on this kind of thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| PJSki, is there? |
Yes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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PJSki, I don't disbelieve you, but what's your evidence for that?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, how long do you have? British youth tends to drag it's cultural baggage around with it. Just go to somewhere like Tignes at the end of the season and observe. Remember, that will be the cream that's left. The rest will have succumbed to injury, death or the sack.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PJSki, if you say so, I have no evidence to contradict you, merely the fact that I've seen delinquent, dangerous, young idiots of all nationalities skiing without due care and attention. If you're saying that British resort workers behave - generally - worse than other resort workers, maybe you're right, I don't know. The British resort workers I met in Courchevel last week all seemed perfectly polite and friendly, however.
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PJSki, balls is there. They are no better or worse than any other resort workers. They are also, on average, way better skiers than you lot. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The video is a fascinating example of how accidents happens. Watch it in "slow motion" and you see that, just as the skier makes his jump - and then has no more control, the other skier is making a turn which takes her into the path of the jumping skier. This probably is a case where a wide open, easy, not too busy piste has led to someone skiing outwith his capabilities. The young man obviously judged wrongly how much room to leave the other skier (presuming he saw her at all and wasn't just concentrating on the jump). Indeed, he was very lucky, for a foot's difference could have had them colliding head on with possibly much more serious results. That neither the skier nor his mates showed any concern for the other skier nor offered any apology is, of course, unacceptable.
However, if I am to be completely honest, I must admit that I skied over the tails of a woman's skis a few weeks back. Just how it happened, I still do not know. I don't consider myself a piste rowdy. This time I was skiing moderately but not extremely fast, just doing middle radius turns down an easy slope. After one turn suddenly the woman was there and we had our close encounter. We both stayed standing and I did say "Entschuldigung". But I didn't hang around then to discuss the matter. Too close for comfort, though.
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I'd just like to ask a couple of questions? If you were sat in the front seat of a car with a passenger sat behind you and the car came to a sudden halt at say a wall or stationary car, would you want the passenger behind you to be wearing a seat belt? If the answer is yes, then someone carreering onto the back of you at 30mph+ is quite an argument for wearing a helmet. Another question, would you ride a motorbike at speed without a helmet? I think if skiers realised just how fast they and others around them ski, they'd make a beeline for the nearest helmet shop. The statistics mean nothing it all comes down to common sense and personal choice. BTW noone has pointed out they are pretty good at keeping your head and ears warm too.
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| espri wrote: |
| Sadly, I have just read a report (in German) of another fatal accident, today in Zell am See. Few details yet, though it was again a collision between two skiers. http://salzburg.orf.at/stories/337527/ |
Here a further report on this accident (in German), with some more details: http://salzburg.orf.at/stories/337569/.
The way I read it, it seems that it was the woman (47) who died that crashed into the other skier (27 - he has serious spinal injuries). Here a helmet did not save the woman. This time it was not wild young lads who were involved.
The report also mentions other fatal ski accidents and looking on the Internet I saw yet another report of a fatal accident about a week ago on the Steinplatte: http://www.salzburg24.at/news/tp:salzburg24:pinzgau/artikel/toedlicher-skiunfall/cn/news-20080117-06565077. That's three fatal accidents already this year in areas I have skied in the last month. I do have the impression that there are more serious accidents happening this season than in the past. I think I'll take to tiddlywinks 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 25-01-09 15:12; edited 1 time in total
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Be careful with the tidleywinks, they'll have your eye out!!!
Its hard to get verified facts as to what has happened in resorts as I think the resort authorities do not like to over publicise "casualties" by this I do not mean people who have damaged ligaments and bones through their own devices, but the ones involving collisions with other skiers and obstacles, also its not very easy to find out about avalanche casualties, piste hors perhaps maybe being the exception.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, I sort of agree but in complex terrain they are more likely to hurt themselves first before they hurt anyone else - then everyone wins.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| PJSki, if you say so, I have no evidence to contradict you, merely the fact that I've seen delinquent, dangerous, young idiots of all nationalities skiing without due care and attention. If you're saying that British resort workers behave - generally - worse than other resort workers, maybe you're right, I don't know. The British resort workers I met in Courchevel last week all seemed perfectly polite and friendly, however. |
Maybe you're right and I just notice the Brits more.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
12 on piste deaths
10 off piste deaths
1/3 of deaths due to avalanche
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davidof, I'd be interested to know how they work out that someone is only considered to be 7.3333 of a person...
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timw03,
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If you were sat in the front seat of a car with a passenger sat behind you and the car came to a sudden halt at say a wall or stationary car, would you want the passenger behind you to be wearing a seat belt? If the answer is yes, then someone carreering onto the back of you at 30mph+ is quite an argument for wearing a helmet.
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It wouldn't make the least difference to your head's protection, but would probably contribute adversely to the severity of the whiplash injury to your neck. Don't like your analogy I'm afraid, coupled with the fact that you won't catch me in a helmet unless it's on a race course... Nor will you see me on a piste very often though!
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You know it makes sense.
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I think it has more to do with the numbers of people on the slopes than grooming. easiski has rightly pointed out that a lot of people at LG ski very fast indeed but there is plenty of room for them to do so and they are usually ripping skiers.
the thing that also unites LG and Alagna (and maybe Mad River Glen for all I know) is a very small uphill capacity compared with the terrain available (AKA ancient slow lifts). back in the day when we relied on drag lifts or slow chairs which only took 4 people max, you'd have big queues for lifts on busy days. with fast efficient lifts, all the people who used to be in a queue are now skiing the pistes at the same time. more collisions are inevitable IMO
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FAQ
