 Poster: A snowHead
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My kids are about so much more than 'making sacrifices'. Why do you resent yours so much?
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Because he didn't get to ski for a few years as he was 2 narrow minded to look into childcare
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Blimey, I do love it when parents profess to be perfect. (Some even incorporate this achievement into their names.) 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hurtle,
Please, enlighten me?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| HH wrote: |
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Have you considered one of those `fear of flying` courses ? They can be very effective. A friend of our`s went on one - you now can`t get her off a bl**dy plane.
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Yes, I have considered this but they take you out on a forty minute flight and just thought I couldn't get through it without the thought of being able to ski at the end of it! I do actually fly for around 3 to 4 hols a year, so I dont let it beat me, I thought that maybe I'd found my own coping mechanism but if your friend is really happy to fly then maybe I should re-consider it. I thought it would just help me "cope" and I'm already doing that. To fly without anxiety would be great. |
I used to be terrified of flying, so did a fear of flying course. Now I have a private pilot's licence and love to be off the ground  . I also ditched an IT career and now work in aviation. I think you could say the course worked.
The course I did was the one run by Aviatours.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alastair,
I think that's the one I looked into at Manchester?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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HH, they run them in various places - I did mine at Heathrow. Money well spent - I've done a lot of travelling since then.
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Alastair,
Ok will deffo look into it now. My friend is also nervous about flying and since the Hudson thing she's really anxious about our trip to Courchevel in March so I should drag her along aswell.
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Right, i'm off to bed now cause I've got to get up early to get the kids to the childminders (JOKE!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| HH wrote: |
Right, i'm off to bed now cause I've got to get up early to get the kids to the childminders (JOKE!)
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Me too.
Think I might dump the kids at that school place. So they can do some lurnin or summat.
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Quote:
My kids are about so much more than 'making sacrifices'. Why do you resent yours so much?
Because he didn't get to ski for a few years as he was 2 narrow minded to look into childcare
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HH, if you bothered to actually read the thread instead of jumping to conclusions, as you seem to constantly do, you would realise that this comment was from Higs and aimed at bar shaker and NOT me. So before posting make sure you know who your talking about.
It would also help if you actually also knew WHAT you were talking about since you continue to believe that you can understand my psychology and motivation and yet you feel that any negative comment on here is aimed at you and you feel offended by them. Double standards indeed (or perhaps a degree of guilt or insecurity? - I wouldn't know since I don't know you and I wouldn't presume to understand you with so little information).
Nevertheless, I have also reminded myself that HH's orginal post was about how they were "inconvenienced" by the location of the childcare on their holiday and how they wanted to claim money back from the TO even though they'd been offered alternatives and their money back before hand. It seems most SH agreed that there was no case for compensation and therefore it's pretty easy to draw ones own conclusions from reading through this entire thread.
As Bode Swiller said in another thread about someone else complaining about their holiday:
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In my experience most people who suffer such a nightmare are also nightmares in their own right... only they don't realise it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Barshaker wrote
"My thoughts are that you either decide to have kids and recognise how it will change your life, if you take having kids seriously, or you don't have kids.
Reading this thread and others, though, has given me a great business idea. I have thought of starting creches at Gatwick and Stansted where you could drop your kids off and then pick them up 7 days later, having thoroughly enjoyed your holiday and not been inconvenienced with sorting out resort child care. Each child would have unlimited access to paper, paints and crayons, unlimited repeats of Teletubbies and be looked after by a Phillapeno lady (ratio of 1:20) who will almost earn minimum wage when tips are taken into account. Best of all, each child's cage would be fully heated. Market research tells me it would be a winner.
Don't take me too seriously but don't complain when you have to look after your kids or when looking after them is a chore. Kids are all about making sacrifices and if you can't bear to make the sacrifices, you shouldn't have the kids.[/quote]
Crikey ! This one runs & runs !
Why do you see the issue in such extreme terms ?
Why on earth is putting your child in a creche (or ski school) evidence of neglect and selfishness ?
No doubt people who are truly selfish would avail themselves of creches, Filipina maids and anything else they could think of.
But it doesn`t follow from that, that the fact that I (or HH) chose to put my kids on a creche is evidence of bad parenting.
At best that`s just muddy thinking.
And one other thing. Having kids is not primarily about `sacrifice`. It`s about loving them, having fun and teaching them to be vaguely decent people. It`s also about teaching them to stand on their on two feet and learning when to let go.
You don`t have to be permanently joined at the hip to achieve those ends.
Obviously you forgo some things if you have kids but `sacrifice` is not the object of the game.
Honestly, the early Christian martyrs could have taken your correspondence course.
If you don`t want to use creches (or ski school) that`s fine.
But - do not be so arrogant as to imply that those of us who do, are selfish and self-absorbed and should never have had children in the first place.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jonty wrote: |
Honestly, the early Christian martyrs could have taken your correspondence course.
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Great, let's drag religion into the debate 
Would they engage in the correspondence course before or after they were martyred?
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You know it makes sense.
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Re. putting children in a creche/selfish parents.
Let's be selfish and focus on the parents.
I have an 18 month old. In 18 months as a couple we've been out for a handful of meals for a couple of hours in the evening. We have never spent even 5 minutes doing anything together outside the house in the daytime. Neither have most parents of my acquaintance with children of similar age. Unless you're able to fluke living, helpful and nearby grandparents, how could you?
So for one morning of skiing together (and for 6 months of looking forward to it) I'm prepared to put our needs first. Only if he gets on well in the creche, I'd extend that to a 2nd morning, and maybe a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th if he's happy.
I think anyone who would take issue with that is being ridiculously harsh.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JimiHendrix, spot on IMHO
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JimiHendrix wrote: |
Re. putting children in a creche/selfish parents.
Let's be selfish and focus on the parents.
I have an 18 month old. In 18 months as a couple we've been out for a handful of meals for a couple of hours in the evening. We have never spent even 5 minutes doing anything together outside the house in the daytime. Neither have most parents of my acquaintance with children of similar age. Unless you're able to fluke living, helpful and nearby grandparents, how could you?
So for one morning of skiing together (and for 6 months of looking forward to it) I'm prepared to put our needs first. Only if he gets on well in the creche, I'd extend that to a 2nd morning, and maybe a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th if he's happy.
I think anyone who would take issue with that is being ridiculously harsh. |
I`m with you mate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What does everyone think about so-called 'parents' who selfishly ship their 'children' off to 'school' every day for 15 'years' in order to get some peace and quiet and 'watch' television?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JimiHendrix, very close but not spot on IHMO .
If they're getting on fine in the creche, why not go for a few afternoons as well toward the end of the week? What's important though (and you have got this bit spot on) is that you will decide what's right for your child and your holiday in your situation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnnyh wrote: |
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Quote:
My kids are about so much more than 'making sacrifices'. Why do you resent yours so much?
Because he didn't get to ski for a few years as he was 2 narrow minded to look into childcare
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HH, if you bothered to actually read the thread instead of jumping to conclusions, as you seem to constantly do, you would realise that this comment was from Higs and aimed at bar shaker and NOT me. So before posting make sure you know who your talking about.
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Are we to presume then that you have somehow formed the opinion she was talking about you?
Why do you thnk that? - There was no indication in the post you responded to that she was referring to anybody other than bar shaker.
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It would also help if you actually also knew WHAT you were talking about since you continue to believe that you can understand my psychology and motivation and yet you feel that any negative comment on here is aimed at you and you feel offended by them. Double standards indeed (or perhaps a degree of guilt or insecurity? - I wouldn't know since I don't know you and I wouldn't presume to understand you with so little information).
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A very large dose of Pot-Kettle-Black here methinks.
You have assumed that her post was about you, with no evidence that was so, then complained about her making similar assumptions (again without any evidence she does so that I can see).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if he gets on well in the creche, I'd extend that to a 2nd morning, and maybe a 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th if he's happy.
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That's fine and I would agree 100% with that.
But there are some parents that would not even care "if he gets on well in the creche" and would rather put their skiing first. I'm sure you've all seen them.
The essence of the argument, which is not unreasonable, comes from why would you go on holiday *with* your family if your intention was to leave part of your family in the care of someone else. The element of selfishness comes in when people do this at all costs regardless of the impact on their children. My view remains that it is possible, if your children don't like the childcare or if indeed that childcare is in some way inconvenient, to wait a few years until your children are old enough to either spend the holiday with you or go to ski school happily.
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Having kids is not primarily about `sacrifice`. It`s about loving them, having fun and teaching them to be vaguely decent people. It`s also about teaching them to stand on their on two feet and learning when to let go.
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I agree with this too but the point is that when you have children you *become a parent* which means you take on a level of responsibility for your children. Sometimes, this responsibility for them means that you may no longer be able to put yourself first as you may have done before you had children. When it comes to skiing holidays there are certain parents who seem to think "well I'm just going to do what I've always done and as far as parenting is concerned I'll leave that to the creche/nanny."
I have seen a mother hand her screaming child to the Nanny, so that she could get on the first lift. Those are the people I think really need to look at what being a parent actually means.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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alex_heney, again, perhaps you should re-read the posts. I mentioned I didn't ski for two years when our children were young. That is the reference point. That is what HH is refering to (wrongly) connecting me with Higs et al.
My comment, if you really need it pointing out, is complaining about her assumptions about me. Re-read the thread and you will see that HH began the making connections and throwing in the personal commentary not me.
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Who's Al (and how are we connected)?
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brian
brian
Guest
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I'd like to nominate johnnyh as my official spokesman on all skiing with kids type issues. Well said.
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johnnyh, happy to do that for you, sir!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| johnnyh wrote: |
alex_heney, again, perhaps you should re-read the posts. I mentioned I didn't ski for two years when our children were young. That is the reference point. That is what HH is refering to (wrongly) connecting me with Higs et al.
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So you said that you didn't ski for two years, while bar shaker said "Everyone to their own but as I couldn't afford a nanny when my daughter was young, I missed a few years." (my bold)
And then you assume that a post by HH where she is responding to a question about bar shaker where she says "he didn't get to ski for a few years " is about you.
I see nothiong to suggest that post was about anybody other than bar shaker
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My comment, if you really need it pointing out, is complaining about her assumptions about me. |
I know. And my point was that you were (at least in that post) making unwarranted assumptions that what she was saying was about you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Johnnyh said "I agree with this too but the point is that when you have children you *become a parent* which means you take on a level of responsibility for your children. Sometimes, this responsibility for them means that you may no longer be able to put yourself first as you may have done before you had children. When it comes to skiing holidays there are certain parents who seem to think "well I'm just going to do what I've always done and as far as parenting is concerned I'll leave that to the creche/nanny."
Well obviously you take on a level of responsibility. Nobody on this forum would suggest otherwise. But`responsibility` does not mean being joined at the hip on a full time basis.
I would have thought that the number of people who say/think "well I'm just going to do what I've always done and as far as parenting is concerned I'll leave that to the creche/nanny." represent a very small category indeed.
My beef is the suggestion made by some on these boards (sometimes made expressly, sometimes implied) that by putting your child into a creche, you fall into that rather extreme category.
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Right - rather than making sacrifices for my children, I've decided to sacrifice my children. Will post the video on youtube shortly 
Once I get out of jail I should make enough from the publicity to ski happily from then on.
I don't fly either - I'm not scared of flying in the least, but I'm petrified of plummeting into the ground from 30,000 ft
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You know it makes sense.
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| johnnyh wrote: |
I have seen a mother hand her screaming child to the Nanny, so that she could get on the first lift. Those are the people I think really need to look at what being a parent actually means. |
Not quite that simple IMHO. I/We have let our kids scream on man occaisions. It is what kids do when they don't get there own way. By giving in constantly to a child one teaches them that throwing a hissy fit works. the down side is that being fair , but firm, will be harder in the short term, but better in the long.
The same goes for parents watching their kid in ski school. When the kids were learning I often saw parents popping over to see how the kids were. Kids were fine, but as soon as they saw parents it all went pear shaped.
My point being; just because a kid is screaming doesn't always make for a bad parent. Oh and ski school should be re-named to take the word "school" out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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just because a kid is screaming doesn't always make for a bad parent
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Quite - I have left mine screaming on the floor in Tesco and walked off - they were crying as I wouldn't buy them sweets/toy etc. I don't think me buying them what they wanted would have made me a better parent.
The biggest argument I had with my daughter this holiday was when she refued to go for a wee before putting her ski stuff on - any parent will tell you this is a vital pre-ski check. I gave in eventually - you can imagine the tears and tantrums (from dad ) when she needed to go on the first lift.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| bar shaker wrote: |
| Kids are all about making sacrifices |
That may be true in Orkney and East Anglia and places like that, but here in SW London we restrict our sacrifices to non human animals.
More seriously, the fact that having kids involves giving up some freedom doesn't mean that you have seek out every opportunity to give up an activity you enjoy. I would go so far as to say that you owe it to your kids to find ways of continuing to do some of the activites you enjoy, which may entail entrusting them to the care of others from time to time. Give the poor little sods a bit of space.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Calm down guys and gals. Jeez, anyone coming in here for the first time will take one look at this thread and think all s are argumentative and pretty much unsavoury types.
Snowheads: love snow, live snow, eat snow
Not
Snowheads: let's slag each other off
With the amount of moral highground being taken there's sure to be a land shortage soon!!...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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all s are argumentative and pretty much unsavoury types.
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That's why I like it here so much
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"Ski Guantanamo" has a nice ring to it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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vetski, any of those would do, although the last one would be tricky to get on the sign.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tony Ellwood, It really can't be that difficult can it? They must be able to see who is booked into their hotel as you have to give the names of all the party in order to book airline tickets. Sounds like they don't give a s**t as long as they book rooms. Also, it really wouldn't have hurt them just to thank you and acknowledge what you said. It would have still been a brush-off but at least it would have been polite. As I said earlier, for us First Choice=Last Choice.
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alex_heney,
Thanks for that (pointing out to Johnnyh that the "resent" comment was not aimed at him (this time) and he only assumed it was). Decided not to bother trying to explain it to him myself as it all seems to fall on deaf ears anyway.
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FAQ
reminds me of when little geetee was in her first ski school class last winter and we went to spy on her doing laps on the magic carpet. We had to hide behind a tree and then commando crawl to hide behind a fence. When I stuck my head above the parapet to take a photo she waved. 
