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Just out of interest ........

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
who has actually used Flows, and I mean for at least a couple of days Very Happy (and did you get time of for good behaviour ! wink )

edit - and when was it (just remembered the 'old codger' thread wink )


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 9-01-09 21:57; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have...........but after a couple of hours I'd had enough.

Bit like boarding in your grannys slippers, you know the ones, slip on, tarten with the rolled down top. Extra width, as standard, to allow room for bunions..................

John.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
i've used them (3 weeks worth) and friends bought after seeing mine. Have got K2's this season though as found Flows had 'failings'....... Shock
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rayscoops, I've used Flows and straps over an extended period. I've no probs with either. Flows take (or did) take an age of experimentation to get in the 'right' position (and that's completely subjective to the boots that are shoved in them) but once there, they're beautifully taught, responsive and all day comfortable. They're no more convenient than straps for me 'cos I'm still flexible enough to bend and strap in without having to chill my piles by sitting on the piste. For a long time I rode in Switch clip-ins which I really liked but got p¡ssed off with trying to scrape the ice off the bottom of my boots.

Personally, I'd go for Flows if I was doing just freeride and straps if (by some freak of chance) I was a Park Rat.

There are some new ideas coming in the new year that will take the best of all and make both legacy systems redundant. I'd be looking forward to them 'cept I've gone to hard boots for a wee while Twisted Evil
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rayscoops, you are a bad man Smile

I just don't know why people find them so odd to use - like Masque says, they take a millennium to set-up but once sorted, they are like wearing the most comfortable things in the world on your feet.

Mind you, I'm moving to Ride Betas for a short while to see if straps can compete on anywhere near the same level
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Masque, mine are a couple of years old now and may well look at a change of bindings next season but agreed that once they are set you can leave that setting for the week, what is interesting with mine is that the sleeve bit where the foot slides in is very rigid (fabric coated steel or something) and it has sort of moulded its shape to the overall shape of my boot so that even when set up really tight they are easy to get on, but if some one else were to wear them then they would also have to go through the process of getting the steel to conform to their boots shape ..... but the straps system for the new ones seem to be a big change.

I was interested to see who has acttuallly tried them and when because they seem to develop every year into something better, and what was available a couple of years ago is like a completely different binding compared to what is available today.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've used Flows for about 10 years now, no probs whatsoever.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rayscoops, been using mine for a year or so - no complaints
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Never ! Although i know Meadwak prays to the Flow altar Laughing
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I've had flows for my last 20 days on piste and in that time have snapped 4 straps and lost one screw. My flows are NXT FS and except for the broken straps have been really good (easy to fit as well). Currently changing over to straps - probably drakes.
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I used rental straps for a couple of weeks, but when I bought my first board I decided to get Flows and found that I like them. I'm on my second pair of Flows (last years NXT) and the mini-ratchets are great, you can really lock your foot in and I haven't had a problem using Salomon or Burton boots with them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
When I first learnt I had a couple of very early days on snow at Glencoe and Flows were on their rental kit. They were awful compared to the low end straps I'd previously used on dry slope boards enough to swear never again.
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I swapped over to Flows last year after trying them out. Just got back from Alpe d'Huez where I boarded with a friend (strap-ins) I hadn't seen for years - he was fascinated by the Flows and was impressed with the ability to set off straight from a lift and do up on the go.

I've had no trouble setting them up or with response. Can't talk too much about longevity as I ski most of the time and haven't had them long, but they feel far more solid than the straps you get on most hire boards.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I think the main thing about Flows, apart from the easy entry (which APO Expressos and K2 Cinchs also offer) is the fact there's so little stress put on one part of the binding.

The flip-up highback is possibly the most stressed part and even then, with the new clips built into the rear, they show very little signs that they'll fail, unlike the old Flows that regularly popped open. The top plate is only ever adjusted before you ride and stays put through the day, plus it spreads the force across it, whereas on double sraps like the Ride, Burtons etc, the constant use of the ratchets and the stress placed on each independant strap will surely mean they have to be 100% rock solid to last the course.

I suppose longevity is all about how often you use them, how brutal you are and how often the binding is adjusted. I can't see Flows being worse than any other binding - if anything, I'd hazard a guess that any failings will be purely down to the odd bad batch.

Just bought my missus some K2 Cinch Vette bindings and I am seriously impressed with the technology and mechanics. I still think Flows offer a wider entry hole but the Cinch design does look tasty and they're rock solid too.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 12-01-09 15:02; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Specialman, in my second season I took a tumble on a steep icy piste and was sliding head first on my back, and the force of my high back on the ice actually popped the clasp open, and as I spun around a bit I felt my foot slipping out of the binding - quite dangerous really !! but i think i must have not closed the high back clasp properly iin the first place as this has neer happened before or after, I do check that the high backs are safely clipped in quite often now after most stops, just in case wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rayscoops, it's never happened to me, as I never fall over because I am awesome* Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin

(*This is purely my opinion and not that of anyone else on planet earth)
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If anyone's interested on a low intermediate's point of view. I'll report back next week on my new SP fastec bindings. Probably won't be very technical but some might be interested as an alternative to Flows or Cinchs. My views so far from setting them up is that as long as the highback can be pushed all the way down (might tricky on steep slope) the entry hole is huge...Downside: I am not sure I am going to like the cap straps at the front )compare to traditional toe strap...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The only conceivable reason to prefer a traditional toe-strap to cap straps is that you're a masochist who enjoys foot pain while snowboarding and worse in your private life... Very Happy
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stevomcd,
Laughing
well we'll see if I become a cap strap convert...answer sometime thursday I expect! Cool snowHead
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rayscoops wrote:
who has actually used Flows, and I mean for at least a couple of days Very Happy (and did you get time of for good behaviour ! wink )

edit - and when was it (just remembered the 'old codger' thread wink )



I was thinking of this thread yesterday. Guy comes in the shop with flow amp 9s, he bought them last year from the shop but didnt get chance to use them until yesterday, long story short we didnt want to buy them back off him but ebay will have a new listing soon Laughing
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stab, I seem to have become anti Burton because so many peeps say you are just buying the brand name and there are better products available, so I am likely to slag of Burton even though I have hardly ever used their gear, just human nature really, so I was interested to see if all the 'do not use Flows' guys had actually used them recently. Have you actually used the new strap ones your self ? being in the business and all that - maybe you should do a review of them for us Cool
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We only have amp9 flows and are trying to knock them out at 40 per cent off. I have to go somewhere in feb to test the 09/10 stuff so i'll look out for them. Sadly i'm not going to ispo in early feb. Sad
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I've had Amp 5's for a few years now and still use them on occasion I've found the nuts at the base of the highback can loosen but they're a good binding, really solid although heavy - compared to my Missions - I kinda like sitting down to put my bindings on instead of trying to bend over my ever expanding belly. I've read so many people here say they are sloppy and unresponsiven which is true if you don't set them up properly, but then any binding is sloppy if its loose - Only downside is the weight which I believe has been addressed with the newer models I quite like the NXT AT
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flow......is absolutely the worst binding in the planete.......it is good just in the shop........we need to be able to go during we put on......in powder is poo-poo......and in freestyle stop the movement of the ankle.......
DON'T BUY IT.......and talk bad about them......
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lungostyle, but have you tried the new strap ones ? wink
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Quote:

........we need to be able to go during we put on......

Eh?
Quote:

......and in freestyle stop the movement of the ankle.......

Absolute dangly bits.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hey I typed b8ll8cks and it changed to "dangley bits" automatically! Down with censorship!! Twisted Evil
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I have had a couple of pairs in the past, only two due to upgrades and just recently have bought some K2 Cinch CTS's with cap strap etc after rave reviews from my brother.

Anyone running these bindings at the momend and opinions?

PS, I had no complaints with the FLOWS Tbh and I'm an 'advanced' rider.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
the ice perv, try typing you lady's front bottom of a back bottom licking Fitzwilliam dangly bits sucker Shocked
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Right, decided to ditch the Flows for freestyle up at Tamworth on Saturday and opted to wear my Ride Beta MVTs instead.

I used the 'cap strap'-type facility on the Rides and they deffo felt more responsive for rail and box work. They're also slightly lighter than my Flow Elevens but it's negligible when you have an ancient. heavy board like my Elan. Our friend lungostyle has the general French perception of Flows as being rubbish for freestyle, but I'd point him in the direction of riders like Antti Autti who seem to do just fine when pulling stupidly massive 1080s while weraing Flows!!!

Riding the other night reminded me why I changed to Flows though - strapping in just annoys me, especially when you're having to make sure everything is tightened down propery and no ratchets are loose. With Flows you just never have to worry and that's where they reign supreme. I agree though that in powder Flows aren't the easiest thing to get into but I'd hazard a guess that when you're in 2ft of the stuff, straps aren't going to be that easy either.

I will be continuing with my Rides though – for the time being anyway – just to see how I get on with them over a long period of time and if they help with general riding. I'll be taking both types with me to France in March but as it stands, the Flows are in no danger of being sold off just yet...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I bought Flow bindings to do a season in. halfway through the season and on the advice of a BASI 1 snowboard teacher I ditched them and got some conventional strap bindings. I never looked back. I'd had strap bindings before the flows and hadn't noticed how the highback moved so much on the flows as I wasn't as experienced then. After a season of instruction (am now an Instructor) I'd only suggest flows for beginner to intermediate - or for dry slope / snowdome where you're in and out very often.

In my opinion, if you want to progress with your riding you need to return to strap bindings - there's more control.

Having said all of that, my flows were a 2002 season model - they may have improved no end, but the cable/highback system means, to my mind they'll never be as rigid as straps....

Now, I'd better read what everyone else has said!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Oh, and btw I bought Burton - despite my inbuilt hatred of what they stand for, unfortunately they do make some great kit. If you have that much money to plough into development you'll end up with good kit. and 6 years on I'm still in the same bindings, Burton Mission - fabulous.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Any thoughts on the Cinch's guys?
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samharris, bought themissus some Cinch Vettes and they're brilliant - Very, very stable and the locking mechanism is good. Highback has a fair bit of flex in it but then again, many of the other bindings I've checked out have a similar amount so she ain't fussed.

boardiecouk, as an instructor, do you thik there must be some correlation beween the boot you wear and the bindings you use and how both improve/reduce control? Let's face it, boarding boots are one step away from the things that Frankenstein's monster had on his feet and being quite rigid anyway, so maybe thinner boots that allow better 'feel' through the feet would be of more benefit. Always struck me that there must be a market for freestyle boots that are much more sensetive but less suitable for all-mountain use.

boardiecouk, Flows have changed a lot in the past few years. The highbacks are stiff these days and there's little flex from the cable system, well, no more than on straps. I think the main difference is that the pressure on Flows is all coming downwards but on strappies (especially those with toe straps) the pressure pushes the foot back more. Suppsoe that's why so many people see the difference but I still believe that Flows will offer a more comfortable fit for a full day once they're set up properly.
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Hi Special,

re Boots/Bindings - yes I can see what you're saying about the frankenstein's monster thing! - I always choose boots with as much ankle flex as possible - often these happen to be the cheaper boots - IMO the more expensive boots (although comfy) are getting stiffer and stiffer and you need to be able to flex your ankles to control the board properly. As for correlation between the bindings and boots - well as long as they fit each other and you adjust the centre point (transversly on the board) to be in the correct place you should be fine! - As for your freestyle boots I think you're right but I'd imagine the manufacturers are worried about possible liability if there's insufficient support in the boot (codswallop in my opinion, but could be that way!)

With Flows, their weakness is in that cable system and (as with anything) the problem is probably more when they get tired.... - particularly when you're carving you need to be able to put the slightest bit of pressure on the highbacks to change the pitch of your board... - More importantly is that you can adjust the angle of a strap binding highback more easily for different terrain, so if you've going carving on the cordurouy you can have a more acute angle on the highback and then slacken it off for the terrain park or off piste.... - that's a reason there's tool-less adjusters on the highback angle, so you can make a quick change on the hill.

Hope that's useful! - but there's a lot of opinion in there rather than hard-fast facts!
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Having just spent a week in the company of a set of flows I still cannot find anything good to say about them Twisted Evil
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I had flows until this year (3 years) when I changed to ride spis.
BAD:
flows you cannot move the highback round , so angles of more than 15 dig into the back of your leg.
flows need your boots and bindings to be totally clear of snow before you clip in.
flows are downright dangerous in powder. (atleast the amp versions). Fall on your face and try and clip out is VERY scary!
The Amp versions are heavy and flexy.
My Vans boots can roll inside the binding.
Good:
Clip in is quick.
Cheap on ebay.
good for beginners.

TBH, I used them to learn on. If you get stuck on flat pistes or undulating cat tracks they can be good for the beginner.
Also good for domes and dry slopes.

I have been quite shocked how much better the ride bindings are.
I still stand to clip in, but take 10 secs longer. Im really inflexible.
Ratchet bindings do not mean a snowy back bottom.

Tux

tux
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Just done a week on Flows. Found them pretty good but did notice a little heel lift. Were they set up wrongly?
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Na, they are just crap
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larry duff, I found that when I first got mine. Now I just add an extra click into the toe rachets, which effectively pushes the boot back into the highback, meaning there's less movement. This means that you aren't squeezing the top of your foot, making it ache. The Flows with the rachet system are much better for fine-tuning.

boardiecouk, I know what yu eman about the cable system becoming'tired'. A mate has some old Amps from about 2000 an the cables have stretched and the clip ont he highback doesn't operate that well anymore so he has had them open up on him while riding. Mind you, I think with anyth 'differen' deisgn like Flow you're always going to have teething problems, especially when cmpared to the simplicity of bindings with just two straps. I still think they have a real place in modern boarding but it really is a case of them sutiing you within the first 5 minutes of use and you'll like them - if you're still unsure after a eay then probbaly you'll go back to straps.

I just went with Flows because my mates had them on the day I was learning and I was absolutely shattered unclipping and then re-clipping with strappies. It was nthing to do with strappies themselves – I was so unfit in the first place – but becuse my mates could board anyway and they were wearing Flows, I put 2 and 2 together and came out with 4.01 - not quite the wrong result but different. Smile

Dear God, I think I love my Flows again the way I'm talking... Smile
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