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Just out of interest ........

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I suppose I should report on my new fancy SP Fastec bindings.
Don't worry, this is going to be fairly brief.
So 1st morning in Meribel, we take the Saulire lift all the way to the top and start our first run of the season going down the Courchevel side.
we take it slow (1st run + mixed abilities) then get to a bit of flat just before the next lift...So I take my back foot off, start skating, loose balance just a tad, catch (lightly) the back strap's buckle with my back foot.....and plain destroy it! Shocked Evil or Very Mad

Sooooooo p*ss*d off! I lost 2 hors going back to Meribel and getting hire equipment before finding me group again...

So not impressed by build quality obviously. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
I'll add a photo tomorrow.

That said, the hire board had bindings with the same Fastec system and You're in and out of it incredibly fast! It literally takes 2/3 seconds.

I think the more advanced boarders will feel that as per Flows the binding is not rigid enough and that maybe there aren't enough adjustements possible. A conventional like strap system on the other side of the auto-release buckle (the one I smashed) might look a bit odd but would solve the issue IMV..
I do think however it is unbeatable as a "step in" binding.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Specialman wrote:
A mate has some old Amps from about 2000 an the cables have stretched and the clip ont he highback doesn't operate that well anymore so he has had them open up on him while riding.


That sounds like broken legs to me Shocked
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Kruisler, with straps the high backs fold down, as we all know, on to the binding where the foot would be, but with Flows/step-ins they open backwards away from the binding so you really need to click the high backs up otherwise you will trip over them or they will drag on the floor or you will stand on them and break them Sad . When I first used Flows I could not work out why I was being such a muppet getting off chair lifts, then I worked out the high back was dragging on the floor and my rear foot was catching it as I put my rear foot on to the board.

bar shaker, on old versions the clips would wear out and pop open, it happened to me too when I hired some old ones a few years ago
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I'm an old fashioned 'make the skiers wait' sort of bloke. There's seconds in it anyway and if the lift run off is quiet and not steep, you can do a rachet binding up on the fly.

I've never tried the bindings I ordered today (C02 ESTs) but comfort and a secure fit are much more important to me than saving the time taken to do up two rachets.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
bar shaker wrote:

I've never tried the bindings I ordered today (C02 ESTs) but comfort and a secure fit are much more important to me than saving the time taken to do up two rachets.


I'm riding CO2, take the time to set them up properly and they will be awesome.
Move the ankle straps from the middle mounting holes to the top ones for aggresive carve action, the lower set for jibbing, or leave it in the middle for a mix of both. And dont forget to rotate your highbacks wink
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You'll need to Register first of course.
bar shaker, fortunately when his board detached via the user interface, he tumbled into a load of pow and the board landed on his chest. It freaked him out though and had to ride with extra tension to make them stay put. Scary....
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Second season on my feet, and I had the first problem with my Flow M9s on Saturday. In one night not one but two straps snapped, possibly because I haven't been totally good at following Uncle Staboola's advice about leaving bindings 'plugged in' when not in use. Also the fact that it was at least -15ºC and possibly colder. Luckily Boardsports, a shop in resort fixed them quickly and for free (wouldn't even take a "beer fund" contribution). Really nice bunch of guys, total legends in my book. Also this happens to all models of bindings sooner or later, so not really a Flow-specific issue.

Otherwise I'm still loving the M9s. Looking at this thread, a good proportion of the nay-sayers are basing their judgement on older models - I don't think anyone is defending those. It's a bit like slating early planes for being made of canvas and bicycle wheels and citing that as your reason for not flying in a 747.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Shallimus, oh dear oh dear oh dear. If you learn nothing else from me (which lets face it I havent got a lot to offer) then close the bindings. Clunk click every trip Smile
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The highback adjustment on my Flows is dead-easy and tool-less, I am not sure what you lot are on about.... Puzzled
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rayscoops wrote:
Kruisler, with straps the high backs fold down, as we all know, on to the binding where the foot would be, but with Flows/step-ins they open backwards away from the binding so you really need to click the high backs up otherwise you will trip over them or they will drag on the floor or you will stand on them and break them Sad .


I had the highback folded over the binding as per conventional/strap bindings, but as I lost balance I did my best not to step on the highback/binding and ended up kicking/brushing (I would say fairly lightly) the outside of the binding, caught the buckle/strap assembly and cut it clean off.... See below:



Surely it should be able to take that sort of treatment without breaking completely! The (same brand/same system) bindings I got from the hire shop certainly took a similar kicking at least once without breaking... Bad luck I suppose..It's like the plastic had gone brittle... I hope they'll send a me spare free of charge but I think contacting SP is going to prove a challenge (their email address is not valid and there's no number..).. Confused
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
the ice perv wrote:
The highback adjustment on my Flows is dead-easy and tool-less, I am not sure what you lot are on about.... Puzzled


highback rotation not lean.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Kruisler, then you are really unlucky as it was the strap that broke Crying or Very sad maybe it had an inherent fatigue fault in the material?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
there are additional things too - the flow lace-plate (not sure if that's the technical term for the thing that locks you down) can prevent efficient ankle flex.... Straps seem to take forever when you first encounter them but like anything its worth persisting and then you find you can do them in not much more time than it takes to get into a flow.

I have to add my agreement to whoever mentioned flows in powder though, hard work to put on but not as hard as the 'step-ins' I started with! - I remember trying to click back in having come off in powder in Colorado and having hiked a fair way through the powder to find a starting point - I had to get to a tree and (having spent ages scraping off the snow from both boot and step-in) use the tree to stamp the step-in back on.... ouch.. very tiring!

so, having started with straps, then tried step-in, then flow and then back to strap bindings, I definitely think I can say been everywhere, tried 'em all and straps are best!

I cannot describe the feeling of control from the straps the day I put them on compared to earlier that day on the flows - down the same piste.

but hey, each to their own!! Shock)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Kruisler, have u heard anything yet?

I found this list on a catalogue of theirs

SP UNITED WORLDWIDE DISTRIBUTON
International SP UNITED getinfo@sp-united.com
Australia THE BOARDROOM snowboard@snowboard-centre.com.au
Austria MOTION SPORTS info@motion-sports.at
Bosnia BEO SPORT beosport@eunet.yu
Canada MERIDIAN DISTRIBUTION ryguy@meridiandist.ca
Chile HEADWORX pierre@objectiflun.cl
Czech Rep. VASA ludek@sp-united.com
Estonia HAWAII EXPRESS info@hawaii.ee
Finland IMMORTAL COWBOYS j.kauranen@iconsnowboards.com
France LOCAL TRADING pwatin@wanadoo.fr
Germany GTA DISTRIBUTION service@gta-distribution.de
Great Britain NOBLE CUSTOM miles@noblecustom.co.uk
Greece MICRO X-TREME gerasimos@microxtreme.gr
Hungaria VITELLI oers@vitelli.hu
Israel SKIPASS roy@skipass.co.il
Italy AICAD info@aicad.com
Japan ADVANCE MARKETING question@advance-j.com
Korea SAMHYUN samhyunt@chollian.net
Latvia HAWAII EXPRESS info@hawaii.ee
Lithuania HAWAII EXPRESS info@hawaii.ee
Macedonia SPORT LIFE sportlife@mt.net.mk
New Zealand PYRAMID info@pyramid.net.nz
Norway HECOX halvor.engen@snowboard.no
Poland PPS GRUPA office@ppsgrupa.pl
Romania SPORTZONE mail@sportzone.ro
Russia PHYSICAL CULTURE info@snowmag.ru
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stab wrote:
bar shaker wrote:

I've never tried the bindings I ordered today (C02 ESTs) but comfort and a secure fit are much more important to me than saving the time taken to do up two rachets.


I'm riding CO2, take the time to set them up properly and they will be awesome.
Move the ankle straps from the middle mounting holes to the top ones for aggresive carve action, the lower set for jibbing, or leave it in the middle for a mix of both. And dont forget to rotate your highbacks wink


Stab I was thinking of sending you a pm for set up tips. The board and bindings should be here by Friday. I guess it will take a bit of playing around to see what works and what doesn't but some good starting points, such as your strap tip, would be very welcome.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 27-01-09 11:54; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
every one seems to always talk about 'old' Flows and take no notice that FLOWs NOW HAVE STRAPS TOO, which is why I asked the original question ...... so every one is making comments on a system that they have not even tried Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Have you tried contacting an SP dealer? - rather than a distributor? - I broke a strap on my burton bindings and just picked up another from a dealer - wasn't the same colour as the old one but fitted and I was back in business. - Hope you have some joy!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rayscoops, FLows will always be known as the binding of choice for the sunshine bus
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rayscoops wrote:
every one seems to always talk about 'old' Flows and take no notice that FLOWs NOW HAVE STRAPS TOO, which is why I asked the original question ...... so every one is making comments on a system that they have not even tried Laughing

They're not quite two seperate straps yet but I know what you mean.

Flows still have the join between the forward and rear straps, which makes them unique, and is most probably the root of most people's wariness about them - they look totally different to anything else. My Elevens have a wide Power Strap (Flow's actual name for the top plate) but the two 'part's' (where the buckles are) do flex individually to allow you to adjust seperate areas of the binding to suit the shape of your foot. They're 07/08 models by the way. The newer models since 2008 have an even more pronounced split between the two side of the top plate and look even more like regular two-strap bindings.

The info page on the flow website is interesting just to learn the story behind the design - didn't know the company stemmed from the world of windsurfing. I like the way they refer to themselves as 'the no2 binding company in the world'... Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
boardiecouk, I literally contacted the shop I bought them from this morning. If that does not work I'll contact the official UK dealer. The email I had for SP direct was not working but I just noticed it is slightly different from the one DebbiDoesSnow has listed. Did not notice when I looked at the dealers list on the website.. So i'm gonna fire off a copy of my email to them.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Flows are for fatties that cant bend over to do thier straps.... NehNeh
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
romeowner, hahahhahhahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahah The best quote yet on Flows Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
romeowner, I would agree with that Very Happy
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rayscoops wrote:
every one seems to always talk about 'old' Flows and take no notice that FLOWs NOW HAVE STRAPS TOO, which is why I asked the original question ...... so every one is making comments on a system that they have not even tried Laughing


Yep, I'm the first to admit that - well may not be the first to admit it but I certainly admitted it before I went on to give my two penneth! - see higher up for details!

Do they still have cables holding the highbacks in place? - if so my comments stand.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
boardiecouk wrote:
Do they still have cables holding the highbacks in place? -


yes they do but with the strap style fronts there is actually no need to un-clip the high back, you can just strap in as you would with normal strap bindings, which would be useful in pow. The main difference is that you can, if you want, unclip the high back for a speedy start on piste too

For the record I have not tried the new 'more strappy' types myself Laughing
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Get your flows set up right and they are no problem
Quote:

Riding the other night reminded me why I changed to Flows though - strapping in just annoys me, especially when you're having to make sure everything is tightened down properly and no ratchets are loose. With Flows you just never have to worry and that's where they reign supreme. I agree though that in powder Flows aren't the easiest thing to get into but I'd hazard a guess that when you're in 2ft of the stuff, straps aren't going to be that easy either.
My wife rides in a pair of Flows clips in while exiting the chair lift and is gone before I have even start to strap in. I ride in straps and have had straps break, nuts come off and high backs come loose so those problems are possible on any binding.
I have a powder specific fish tail board which I obviously only use in powder and have just changed my k2 bindings on that board over to a pair of Flows for convenience. If you fall in deep powder why do you need to remove your binding unless you are on the flat?

The first board and bindings I had were crazy. The board was solid plywood with great big hard plastic bindings and my boots were like a pair of furry wellies now those bindings really did let your feet move around.
Talking of which we were in Canada last year and watched a bunch of local kids doing tricks with their rear binding unstrapped at the top. Only the toe strap was fastened and none of them were complaining about their foot moving about!

I guess its all down to your own self belief if you think Flows are great then they are as are K2's and Burtons. If you think they are crap then they will be. If you think you can board the Wall then you will well maybee.

Puzzled
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I want a fish tail board too !!!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
flying planet wrote:
Get your flows set up right and they are no problem
Quote:

Riding the other night reminded me why I changed to Flows though - strapping in just annoys me, especially when you're having to make sure everything is tightened down properly and no ratchets are loose. With Flows you just never have to worry and that's where they reign supreme. I agree though that in powder Flows aren't the easiest thing to get into but I'd hazard a guess that when you're in 2ft of the stuff, straps aren't going to be that easy either.
My wife rides in a pair of Flows clips in while exiting the chair lift and is gone before I have even start to strap in. I ride in straps and have had straps break, nuts come off and high backs come loose so those problems are possible on any binding.
I have a powder specific fish tail board which I obviously only use in powder and have just changed my k2 bindings on that board over to a pair of Flows for convenience. If you fall in deep powder why do you need to remove your binding unless you are on the flat?

The first board and bindings I had were crazy. The board was solid plywood with great big hard plastic bindings and my boots were like a pair of furry wellies now those bindings really did let your feet move around.
Talking of which we were in Canada last year and watched a bunch of local kids doing tricks with their rear binding unstrapped at the top. Only the toe strap was fastened and none of them were complaining about their foot moving about!

I guess its all down to your own self belief if you think Flows are great then they are as are K2's and Burtons. If you think they are crap then they will be. If you think you can board the Wall then you will well maybee.

Puzzled


If its really deep powder but a shallow incline you can't get moving - not if you weigh as much as I do! (not fat, but am 85KG!) - found this a lot in Colorado, but also in Italy...

the thing about straps is that yes, they're obviously breakable too but they're simple. and simple has less chance of going wrong - there's also the fact that it is possible (though not much fun) to board with one strap only - so if one strap breaks you can get down the hill. With the flows - a prob with the cable and its game over.

As I've said, each to their own, but I stand by the failings I've specified with my experience of flows.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Well there's some good news:
Quote:

sorry to hear about your problem, we will of course fully refund you for this item and any postage costs too.


I didn't realise the clearance website in question was an offshoot of two much bigger names/shops....So that helped no doubt...

However I did laugh at this:
Quote:

SP sit right at the budget end of the market. now we cant say that the product isnt worth its money however none of us here rate these products very highly. at least you know now to avoid in the future.


So they know they sell a cr*p product and they probably just keep their fingers crossed that not too many will be returned...weird strategy if ask you me...

Anyway, looks like I'm back to my good ol' trusty strap bindings.. Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Kruisler, class response from the stockists Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DebbiDoesSnow,

Indeed! Very Happy

It occured to me they probably have a very cunning plan: sell cheap products which break very easily, customer comes back, come up with the "you need to buy good/big brand stuff for peace of mind", customer is put off cheap stuff and regularly spends a mortgage on equipment..

The proof: their answer also contained a few suggestions and a link to the website and the latest Cinchs...

Very clever... Laughing


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 28-01-09 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
haha! Will you purchase?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Kruisler, I note the strap broke and not the high back wink is it worth buying some extra bits and carry them with you in case it happens again?
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samharris,

Not this season no. I have the current "mortgage" to pay! Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Very sensible Sir!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
DebbiDoesSnow wrote:
Having just spent a week in the company of a set of flows I still cannot find anything good to say about them Twisted Evil


thats not very nice. my poor flows will be saddened at your response... Cool

I guess all that extra time they had boarding whilst wating for you to strap up, will have to make up for it...!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
meadwak, big fat hairy ones mister ! I believe there were more occasions when I was waiting for you than the other way round wink

Still love ya, just hate the flows Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
DebbiDoesSnow, get some Flows and maximise the use of your ski pass, you spend long enough on your @rse without having to spend ages putting your board on Laughing Shocked wink
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
you leave my @rse out of this Twisted Evil Evil or Very Mad Laughing
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
ha ha hah... Wink good to hear about the refund btw Kruisler!
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