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Board and binding advice

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm now at an intermediate level of boarding. I've just done four days in Andorra with half on-piste and half off.

I've bought the boots (Salomon Malmutte) but now want to get my own board. I only want to buy one so it needs to do both off and on piste

I'm 5'8" and weigh 14st.

I like the look of the flow bindings but my mate reckons that they don't give a precise hold.

Does anyone have any opinions/suggestions?

Cheers
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jumping Jack Flash, Flows are pretty tight now, and the hold you get depends upon how tight the ratchets are done up, same as strap bindings. I actually wear mine quite slack (easier to slip your foot in to them) and you get familiar with that, the same as perhaps riding with slack boots, but you can have them really tight so that the response on any foot movement is the same through the board as with straps.

Basically a few hours riding and you will know how tight you like them.

Basically I set the straps on the Flows to something I think from memory looks about right, then put my foot in them and raise the back which sort of shoe-horns your foot in, if it feels a bit slack or tight I will take my foot out, and tighten/slacken the ratchets on one side of the binding by one knotch, then put my foot nack in again. Once this has been done you can leave the bindings for the day or week even. You can not really tighten the bindings (my bindings anyway) once your foot is in them in the same way you can tighten straps becasue the leaverage is not as effective, but maybe new models now have more of a strappy ratchet system so maybe this has changed.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I swore by flows until i fell face down in some powder last year. I reached back to release the binding and found no amount of shaking, rattling or fiddling would let my heel come out. Eventually i shook the binding off , not until i was slipping deeper (face first) into the powder.

Scared the hell out of me.

The new ones have ratchets like normal bindings for quick exit. Get those.

Ive moved to ride (spi) bindings.

MIght still use my flows for piste days.



Tux
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flow Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Triads Wink
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I am looking to change to flow bindings.

I ski as well and also go out with a lot of skiers, so a quick and easy straight-off-the-lift type set-up would really benefit me.
I have found a lot of mixed reviews about flows but really want a step-in system to speed things up...
I also have a bad back and find that the whole binding affair a little painful which is stopping me from riding as much as would like!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm still leaningtowards the Flows but what is the best board I can buy given that I want one that does both on and off-piste. I also want to buy a good one so that I won't need to buy another in twelve months.

Any ideas.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
burton custom, atomic alibi, salomon answer. In that order Smile

I'm supposed to be selling flow bindings, I laugh at people who want to buy them, ask them how do they think they go on after a fall in powder, call them dutch and keep ridiculing them until they leave the shop.
Amazes me that most people's argument for them is the getting off the lifts quick thing, skiers dont even need to stop after a lift and they still do, never quite figured out why. For me it's like buying a crap car just because it has a never filling up ash tray.

Quote:

Triads


C02 wink
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
oh yeah, high back rotation Very Happy I sold an ICS custom with EST cartels today as a result of me fixing leg pain with highback rotation. Flows dont rotate (as far as I know, would like to be proven wrong).
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stab, easy to take off and put on in powder, have you tried? they do have straps too btw ... err ... the same as a traditional strappy binding Puzzled
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As I mentioned the new top of the range flows have ratchet straps, so you can quickly, using one hand, get them off in powder. They are expensive tho.

Highback rotation: I could never have more than +15 on my flows or the highback was far to out to get good heel edge turns. They also cut into the back of my leg.

If you board with ONLY skiers, then it does help you to get moving quicker off the lift. Trouble is, I spend all my time with boarders, so just ended up waiting for them.
Its good for fresh tracks .. just dont fall over.

I would avoid burton, I have had a third friend this year moan about their burton bindings falling apart. (custom, mission and freestyle). I know its not a massive sample, but its all my friends who have burtons. Ride bindings with the ally baseplate (spi, rx, cad) are exellent bindings. Cant fault them, tool free, VERY responsive.
My nephew just went from burtons to ride rx bindings and instantly could turn the board in tighter turns.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

stab, easy to take off and put on in powder, have you tried? they do have straps too btw ... err ... the same as a traditional strappy binding

Seconded. I am a recent convert to Flows, don't understand the love 'em or hate 'em marmite thing, having tried them I can't detect any real drawbacks.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Don't go for Flows, a guy I go boarding with has three pairs within a couple of years (Replaced under warranty) as they have fallen apart in some way and as people have said they're not all that useful when you've got snow stuck in them!!
I've got a pair of Ride RXs and I love them and can never really see the appeal of Flows or any other chinche type Binding as it doesn't take that much longer to do a ratchet binding up anyway.

In terms of boards I would check out something like a Signal OG or Rome Agent or maybe even K2 Jibpan. I really don't think that Riding off Piste requires a completely different board unless of course you Ride it all the time then I would look for a Powder board but as long as you are not riding a really short board (like I do!) then you won't have any problems.

Oh and I won't say don't go for Burton but I've heard a lot of bad things about this seasons boards (the Bases are not great) however this could of course be BS i'm hearing!!

Hope you have a good season.

T.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
symtheus wrote:
Don't go for Flows, a guy I go boarding with has three pairs within a couple of years (Replaced under warranty) as they have fallen apart in some way .


err..... from the other thread ......
symtheus wrote:
I lost a part of my Ride bindings and only found one shop that even sold ride.


all bindings have moving bits and bits that are under stress and you can have trouble with them, I have had hired strap bindings snap on me when riding (quite dangerous) and seen others fail when riding with with other boarders , and I even got stuck in VDs on a trip from Tignes because my strap bindings had broken ! I have now had my Flows for two seasons and i have had no problems, but it is all just anecdotal really.

I would simply try some 'test' bindings and see what tickles your fancy, but do not discount any binding type until you have actually tried them wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rayscoops, S&R do tests at the Chill Factor so I might try there.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

can never really see the appeal of Flows or any other chinche type Binding as it doesn't take that much longer to do a ratchet binding up anyway.

To me, as a converted skier, any time spent sitting on one's a4se in the snow cranking away just seems like a colossal waste of time. Now I can get straight off a drag, foot in, flip up and away. Over the course of a days' riding you'd save a huge amount of time, trust me.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I dont have any problems getting into regular bindings standing up these days so flow are just unnecessary Smile
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
thats what I dont get either, I never sit down all day. Invalid argument imo.

Burton bases, cant say I've seen anything bad with them except a custom I saw today that had been rocked, base was pulling away from the core, but then it had been absolutely twatted into a rock.

I got told by burton europe that 70% of boarders are using their bindings /boards and that is why everyone has some scare story about their mates broken bindings/boards and why less popular makes dont have such stories. I personally have never seen a ride board that wasnt broken, and flow boards I have seen split vertically down the centre with bindings attached.
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If your going out searching for off-piste or powder don't bother with Flow, I don't care how much people say they are'nt, they are a pain in the back bottom if you have bailed or reached a flat spot in deep powder.

If however you only have a couple of afternoons off piste at the end of your holiday then go for them they are quicker to get on once off the lift and they do feel as good as any other bindings on the piste.

My final points are have a look on ebay, there are an awful lot of flow bings on there. If you want to try a set you can pick a pair up for around £25-£40, the other point is why are there so many on there?

I'm not going to voice an opinion on boards because it's to much of a personal thing, just if you want to play freestyle do not go over 162cm max they are to slow to spin!


I hope you realise that as soon as you find your new partner...er, board, you have to take her away for the honeymoon...and I don't mean a romantic session at the snowdome!

Good luck.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
naryn, stab, manicpb, every one in the 'pro' straps corner says 'I can put them on standing up', but I would say 90% of boarders I see at chairlifts putting on their boards do so sitting down, whether they can put them on standing up is another matter and maybe depends if the ground is flat or not, but as we all head to bit of a slope to put them on so we can start sliding straight away ........ most boarder sit, but maybe if you have spent the last three years boarding 100 days a year you have the jump on most boarders and slide off whilst doing up your straps wink

I just do not get this 'do not get Flows' attitude, they are just a set of bindings ffs and some people like them and some don't, How often do you actually take your board off in deep powder? I thought the whole idea was to try to stay upright and pick your line so you did not have to stop and take your board off? Maybe getting some Flows would make you you a better boarder in powder for fear of falling and getting stuck on the mountain for 5 hours because you can not get your bindings off Laughing

Maybe if you are flipping around in the park then straps are the way to go for that really tight fit, but buzzing around the mountain in general i can not see any benefit in straps over Flows, quite the reverse in fact.
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Firstly, I never said don't get flows!

Secondly if you are walking along a ridge to hit a gully or powder field then sit at the top put your board down and slide your foot in you have a much bigger chance of pushing snow inbetween the sole of your boot and the surface of the binding (please note I have said 'much bigger chance') then placing your foot directly in to a set of strap bindings! It is this relasionship that is most important on a board not how the straps sit on top of your foot but it is essential for maximum feel to have as little snow inbetween boot and bindings. Hence why experianced riders clear the snow from the bindings every time they place there foot in.

Now as I said if the OP is getting to a stage that he is doing short hikes often Flow are very poor. However if he is only cutting corners of the piste or only has one days hiking per holiday great go for them!


And one last tip if your skiing buddies don't like waiting for you to do your bindings up is put your back foot in before you reach the top of the lift!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Just had a look on ebay and perhaps my lowest estimate of £25 was a tad low, still stand by less than £40 though:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290285900346

The above link also mentions the fact that these bindings are 'ideal for beginners' the point i'm trying to make that if your begining to prgress Flow bindings might...please note 'might'...hold you back!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
manicpb, but Flows have strap bindings too if you want to put them on that way? see here for strappy Flows and atually it is harder to put Flows on sitting down because the high backs simply fold up and you can not get you foot in (same situation which makes them hard to take off sitting down) With Flows it is easier to put the board on when the high back is facing away from the ground rather than facing the ground (toe edge in the snow rather than heel edge as would be the case for straps), or if you are sitting down just pick it up in the air a bit and slip your feet in. Alternatively you can alway simply step in to them standing up in conditions permit. But all of this just takes a minute or two and is not really such a hardship?

but - as with the advertising with the strappy Flows - 'The addition of the mini ratchet system on the ankle straps means that you can easily adjust the tension of the bindings, but also flip off the powerstrap and use them like a pair of regular strap bindings should you be either in deep powder or on a steep gradient!'


I agree in general if you spend your entire time trecking up mountains and spending all day off piste then maybe straps is the way to go, but how much do we really do that on a week's hols when avvy risk is 4 or it has not snowed for a week or two, unless you are lucky enough Very Happy to do a season or something?

One other point is that with Flows if one ratchet/strap breaks, then you still have two strap locations one side and one strap location the other side that are all still connected to each other and i would think it still gives a reasonable tight fit along the foot (never tried it), but when a strap breaks on strappy bindings you are left with just one strap fixed at the same postion either side of the foot and that makes it quite hard to board home with.

I suppose it is all about what riding you mainly do and what binding suits that

Park and off piste trecking - straps
On piste and lift accessed off piste - Flows or straps
Boarding with skier mates on the piste - Flows every time

note - edited because I have learned new tricks wink
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I watched a lot of people on the mountain today putting flows on, most people I saw struggled with them. Only the good boarders were one foot in - rolling - back foot in.

I mainly dont like them because of the highback rotation thing, almost all other bindings have some form of rotation, even if it is just a case of 3 holes to choose from a la raiden. If flows had straps, highback rotation and the dutch stopped using them then yeah, I might be persuaded to sell a pair Smile
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stab, takes it bit of practice but sometimes I am half way down the piste by the time I get the high back up wink now that I know the Dutch wear them I will ditch mine Laughing
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rayscoops, I did an experiment last week in work, anyone with flows I asked them where they were from, only the dutch had flows. Ishnt vat veerd. Smile
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I'll only be off-piste boarding from lift points (for now!) but I do have a suspect back (from playing suspect rugby!)a and all the bending down does aggravate it. It would seem that this subject is a bit of a can of worms but the consensus seems to be - go with what you prefer. I won't be on the park so no problems there and it will only be 2-3 days out of a week, as I am a skier first and foremost.

I'll try both bindings and see which is best for me.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stab, whats with all this high back rotation anyway? does it really give you better heel side bite? seems a bit weird really but I have neve played with it?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Jumping Jack Flash, I am a bit like you (apart from the skiing bit wink ) and have a dodgy back from rugby (op a few months ago) and I would have struggled strapping-in a few weeks ago in L2A, but there is that Dutch issue ........ wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rayscoops wrote:
stab, whats with all this high back rotation anyway? does it really give you better heel side bite? seems a bit weird really but I have neve played with it?


its debatable, I say you do, the burton guy said you do but it's a small amount, he even suggested the 10/45 sidewall thing was unmeasurable in terms of extra edge pressure. For me it's the comfort on your legs from rotating them that wins it.
I spent the whole day fiddling with my new co2 bindings today, finally have them dialled in (almost). I wish there was a standard for forward lean like the binding plates (ie 3 degree separations).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jumping Jack Flash, Check out Libtech boards, the Phoenix (either Jamie Lynn or Lando) is wicked and the Skate Banana is the most hyped board out there at the moment (although you'll struggle to get hold of one). Also, the Batalleon Goliath is an awesome board - worth checking out. Whatever you get, try before you buy if you can.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ronaldothefrog, good luck getting anything from lib tech, by far the worst company I've had the misfortune of dealing with this winter. Even pushed burton into 2nd place.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Check out the Flow boards, and I am serious ! At bargainboards
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rayscoops, you serious? They turn themselves into split boards. I know one guy who did the same split to 2 boards and now flow have stopped giving him boards Laughing

edit: this very one http://www.bargainboards.co.uk/P/Flow-TEAM-Snowboard(7235).aspx
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rayscoops wrote:
symtheus wrote:
Don't go for Flows, a guy I go boarding with has three pairs within a couple of years (Replaced under warranty) as they have fallen apart in some way .


err..... from the other thread ......
symtheus wrote:
I lost a part of my Ride bindings and only found one shop that even sold ride.


all bindings have moving bits and bits that are under stress and you can have trouble with them, I have had hired strap bindings snap on me when riding (quite dangerous) and seen others fail when riding with with other boarders , and I even got stuck in VDs on a trip from Tignes because my strap bindings had broken ! I have now had my Flows for two seasons and i have had no problems, but it is all just anecdotal really.

I would simply try some 'test' bindings and see what tickles your fancy, but do not discount any binding type until you have actually tried them wink


Granted something did fall off mine but that was my own fault not the bindings failing!
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I really can't see how it takes people so long to do up two straps that skiing mates are going to get pissed off. If you push the clasp along the strap anyway, its only a couple of ratchet movements to it being tight.

If my skiing mates got fed up waiting for the time we are talking about, I would be looking for new mates.

Anyway, look at how long we wait for them when they lose a ski, let alone lose one in powder wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rayscoops wrote:



all bindings have moving bits and bits that are under stress and you can have trouble with them, I have had hired strap bindings snap on me when riding (quite dangerous) and seen others fail when riding with with other boarders , and I even got stuck in VDs on a trip from Tignes because my strap bindings had broken ! I have now had my Flows for two seasons and i have had no problems, but it is all just anecdotal really.

I would simply try some 'test' bindings and see what tickles your fancy, but do not discount any binding type until you have actually tried them wink


I have had my flows since I went to canada for a month back in 2003. Including those 4 weeks I have done about 10 weeks on them. Swear by them and no problems so far! And I've fallen (and crashed, dived, landed, rolled and dropped) in some seriously deep powder during that time Very Happy . Admittely not had to try other bindings in that time, but they hold my feet to the board securely, and allow me to feel the board. On some occassions I can feel my back heel lift a little but thats easy sorted at the next rest break!

Brought a new board for the next piste session next week (Ride Concept TMS 164) so eager (having brought them back in september and not tried them yet) to have a crack on them next week with the flows as well. Maybe I'll notice a difference that might persuade me to upgrade the bindings... Cool
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