 Poster: A snowHead
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I spent a week in Val D'Isere before Christmas. Last year, from the chair lift, you would see a lot of people carving turns with various degrees of success. This year, nobody was carving. It was like a step back in time: parallel, parallel, parallel. All the ski school teachers skied parallel also. In a week of observing hundreds I probably only saw two attempting carving.
Has there been a style shift that I don't know about? Have I accidentally stepped into a time machine? Will they have gone back to wooden skis the next time I go?
Mick
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Clearly it is time for a thread on "if two skis are carving can they be parallel?" - any volunteers ? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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penster, There was lots of soft snow, and poor visibility that week.. not great conditions for carving.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ooops! Anyone care to explain the difference for people like me who think a turn is a turn and have no idea which type they do...? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queen bodecia, there are three ways to steer your skis: you can twist or rotate them (by twisting your feet/legs); you can use the edges of the skis to carve a turn (by putting them on edge); or you can put pressure on the skis to force them into an arc. Most turns are a blend of two or three of these steering methods.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Carving = stand like a stunned gorilla and pretend you're racing
Parallel = stand like John Inman and pretend that you've got an itchy bum.
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I was in the valley a week or so before xmas and there was so much good snow to be found you didn't go on the pistes....
The Sache was great..even though it was not officially open...but why ruin that run like that anyway... lots of high line traverses into nice big faces off the Peclet, or Arriere Capanules, Merles, ,... or the val Perdue, etc etc...you don't have to look hard...
Who'd want to be carving..??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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depends what you mean by carving 
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JT, Me too. Still soft snow to be found in the middle of last week 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, thanks, that kinda makes sense although I still have no idea which I do. Let's just say I'm not a technical skier...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| rob@rar, thanks, that kinda makes sense although I still have no idea which I do. Let's just say I'm not a technical skier... |
It's almost certain that you will blend all three methods when you turn, with more twisting of the skis than edging or pressure. A good instructor would help you to more carefully manage the way you steer your skis so you can choose how to turn depending on the snow conditions, terrain and what you want to do. How the instructor does this should very with your learning style - I prefer to have a good technical understanding of what I'm trying to do, but other people will like drills, or prefer to copy what the instructor does, etc. A good instructor is the key to moving forward with your skiing...
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Cunners,
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You know it makes sense.
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| penster wrote: |
| I spent a week in Val D'Isere before Christmas. Last year, from the chair lift, you would see a lot of people carving turns with various degrees of success. This year, nobody was carving. It was like a step back in time: parallel, parallel, parallel. |
How can you carve without being parallel? Do you mean skid?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| penster wrote: |
| I spent a week in Val D'Isere before Christmas. Last year, from the chair lift, you would see a lot of people carving turns with various degrees of success. This year, nobody was carving. It was like a step back in time: parallel, parallel, parallel. |
How can you carve without being parallel? Do you mean skid? |
don't think you can! But don't take my word for it! The more I read these technique threads the less adequate I feel!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Does it actually matter? Just playing devils advocate but isn't there a time to carve and a time to skid?, you adapt to the conditions, sometimes I can't be bothered to carve I don't think it makes me any worse a skier, I think some peeps can get a bit hung up on the carve thing..... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| JT wrote: |
| I was in the valley a week or so before xmas ... |
| JT wrote: |
| Must admit we were spoilt with the snow and the numbers in Espace Killy...don't think I could go there again and luck out so much. |
I have skied the week before Christmas in Val d'Isere for the last several years. It is always quiet on the slopes. My latest (Dec 2008) trip was different because so much of the area was open and had good snow, so perhaps the few people were spread more thinly. Generally I think it is a good week to ski as the prices are low-season and the crowds are absent. But the snow cover is variable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
How can you carve without being parallel?
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easy enough in a snowplough, but only one ski will be carving at a time. In fact since I clearly do not understand what the word parallel means I have decided to only use one ski from now on, so that there will be no confusion in my mind. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queen bodecia, rob@rar, Well when I was in VT before Christmas I am assured by BMF_Skier that the instructor was teaching me to carve. Was I aware that I was carving (i.e. getting the skis onto their edges at the same time and letting the shape of the ski carry me round the curve)? No, I have to say I wasn't - it just felt like being taught to make an S shaped turn, now whether the skis were 'carving' as a result of this I don't know. We were doing a routine of sinking down as we traversed the slope standing quickly so the skis faced downhill, and then sinking again with the weight on the new downhill ski to power out of the turn. I haven't a clue if this results in the skis carving or not. What I do know is I suddenly started to rocket down Plein Sud rather faster than I think I had ever done before!! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum, what I see around the mountain is that the majority of skiers blend different steering styles and very few do a pure carve from start to finish. It's quite a high order skill, and the speed dramtically increases, even on the most gentle of slopes. If you were purely carving down Plein Sud I'd guess you wouldn't be entirely comfortable with the speed you reached (I know I'm not).
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Megamum, starting a turn in a carve is the most tricky bit, most people will skid the start of their turns then lock onto their edges towards then end of the turn (this is probably a good thing to do on most slopes as it keeps the speed to a sensible level). Although you wouldn't want to do pure carved turns for much of your skiing, the edge control and timing control that you must develop to be able to carve are great skills to have available to you in all sorts of situations, on and off piste. You are clearly working your way to developing those skills, so good for you!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, thank you! I have several things to work on this year - the upper/lower body separation, facing more consistently down the slope, working on those S turns of various diameters and controlling the rotation of my uphill shoulder which I have a nasty tendancy to try and use to swing myself round the turn with - esp. if I'm think of controlling something else at the same time LOL. However, compared with my goals at the start of last year it actually feels like I'm starting to ski if I'm now worrying about those sorts of niceties
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rob@rar,
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very few do a pure carve from start to finish. It's quite a high order skill, and the speed dramtically increases, even on the most gentle of slopes.
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Thank you for that extremely useful piece of information. I shall now abandon my quest for the pure carved turn - the last thing I want to do, most of the time, is ski any more quickly!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, that's a brilliant list of things to work on, especially varying turn diameters and your shoulder rotation from what I can remember of the videos you posted. Once (not 'if') you get those cracked the mountain will be yours for the taking
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, I can carve a decent turn from start to finish on blues and gentle reds, although I don't often do it. What I did find is that the timing and sensitivity needed to initiate a good carved turn was invaluable in helping me initiate turns in powder snow. I was failing to carve a decent turn for exactly the same reason as I was struggling in powder: I was rushing the turn initiation. Fixing the carved turns fixed the powder problems
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rob@rar, bother. So I need this skill in powder? Back to the drawing board, then. Sigh.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| rob@rar, bother. So I need this skill in powder? Back to the drawing board, then. Sigh. |
I see the same problem (rushing the turn) that I had (well, still have but not quite so bad) in other people all the time. Sorting that problem out is a big step in skiing all the mountain, IMO. You can fix the problem on piste or off piste, it doesn't really matter. But I think once you have cracked it you will be able to use that skill in a range of different situations, from skiing gates to bottomless powder. It's the reason why I say learning to carve is good for off-piste skiing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hurtle, semantic point here: you don't need the skill, you need the timing and sensitivity (and patience) that the skill demands.
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex, ah, in skiing as in life.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yoda, silly Jedi, that is NOT Val d'Isere.
BTW, nice summary rob@rar.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm pretty sure I don't 'carve' as such. It was all different when I learned to ski in 1977. Snigger...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Hurtle, I can carve a decent turn from start to finish on blues and gentle reds, although I don't often do it. |
It's often too busy anyway
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| What I did find is that the timing and sensitivity needed to initiate a good carved turn was invaluable in helping me initiate turns in powder snow. I was failing to carve a decent turn for exactly the same reason as I was struggling in powder: I was rushing the turn initiation. Fixing the carved turns fixed the powder problems |
Or indeed the other way round. Having got the hang of not rushing turns in powder last season, I find myself seeking it out now to remind myself not to rush them on piste. When nerves or unfamiliarity set in, the first thing I do is rush the turn initiation which is a recipe for disaster of course
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| Or indeed the other way round. |
Yes, it works in both ways although I think for the majority of people learning new things is easier on piste because they don't have the psychological problem of seeing their feet disappear into the snow. For the majority of people this is a trigger to get in the back seat, making everything more difficult. Once you get a feeling for the pace and rhythm of the turn it's time to head for deep snow.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| eng_ch wrote: |
| Or indeed the other way round. |
Yes, it works in both ways although I think for the majority of people learning new things is easier on piste because they don't have the psychological problem of seeing their feet disappear into the snow. .. |
Ahh, chronic looking too close.
Tape over the bottom of their goggles.
(Worked for me in bumps, taped the other way, to get my head up. At ssh's instigation ).
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comprex, a novel approach!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, aha - so it's in Val d'Isere that they employ a deliberate divergence in order to ensure that when carving their skis cannot be parallel 
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| Quote: |
I can carve a decent turn from start to finish on blues and gentle reds, although I don't often do it. What I did find is that the timing and sensitivity needed to initiate a good carved turn was invaluable in helping me initiate turns in powder snow. I was failing to carve a decent turn for exactly the same reason as I was struggling in powder: I was rushing the turn initiation. Fixing the carved turns fixed the powder problems
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It was the exact same for me
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