 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, does anyone have advice on where to go for an introductory week to learn the basics of cross country skiing? In Europe, scenic, not expensive (!) and around March?
Ken
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What makes the Alps great for alpine skiing does not always make them great for cross country. I personally prefer the smaller mountains of northern Germany over the Alps for cross country skiing. I can ski over rolling hills, I cannot ski over 3000 m peaks. In the Alps, you are generally limited to skiing in the valley, which is often limited and at relatively low elevation. Many resorts claim high elevation trails, but they are mostly (not always) a waste of time.
Having said that, the best places I've been in the Alps are La Clusaz, France and Seefeld, Austria. Neither is particularly cheap but both are very good. We also spent a weekend in Oslo last winter. The trail network is fantastic, but Norway is far from cheap. In Germany, I'd love to recommend some of my favourite places, but the fact is that snow cover can be so iffy that it is not wise to plan too far in advance. Altenberg near the Czech border is very good, Oberhof about halfway between Berlin and Munich is great, and Schierke and Braunlage south of Hannover are wonderful. While all of these places currently have good snow, all it takes is a week of warm weather to completely wipe out the snowpack. These places are also focused on cross country, while in many Alpine resorts cross country skiers are treated like the crazy aunt in the attic.
Ruhpolding and Lengries, Germany nearer the Alps also come highly recommended, but I've never been to either.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 16-12-08 18:40; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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carafw, welcome to snowHeads 
If you fancy France, there are some small resorts in the Vercors which are quite into cross-country - Autrans and Villard de Lans for example. Also some in the Vosges and Jura if the snow is there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Carafw,
You could try somewhere in the southern french alps there are quite a few small inexpensive cross country areas dotted all over. I've been to colmars-ratery (www.ratery.com) and it's lovely very peacful circuit through forest your aoround 1700m alt to there is usually plenty of snow (in fact one year the french championship io believe were held there because the usual venues sisn't have sufficicent cover........Should be ok in March. (fly into nice + hire a car+snowchains)
We went for the afternoon to hire the gear + piste pass was really cheap I can't remember how much exactley, but we had an afternoon off alpine skiing and went to try it and really enjoyed it...... They have lessons I believe and there are other areas nearby where you can cross country ski also.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If you want to go for XC only there is really only one option which is Norway (where I grew up) - and it is not a cheap place to go. XC skiing is everywhere and part of their culture.
I have done cross country skiing in a number of places in europe and have found that although the holiday brochures quote x amount of km XC trails they are usually very hard to find (you will need a car) and often poor (no more than snow mobile tracks with no preparation). They also tend to be very low so in March go somewhere you will have a high chance of having good snow.
The US is better and getting instruction will be easier. The east coast resorts are more geared up for XC so try Stowe etc. rather than west coast. Again, this won't be cheap.
XC skiing is easy to pick up if you have done alpine with some reading/videos. Hills are alway quite difficult though!
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If you want a fabulous place to go and learn (ignoring the currency collapse), try Mazama in Washington. I'm off there in 10 days. The teaching is excellent and it's a great place to learn. The scenery is spectacular and the people are so friendly.
Look here http://www.mazamacountryinn.com/ for accomodation - there's not much else as Mazama is literally at the end of the road and consists of three hotels a gas station and a shop. More info about the area here www.mvsta.com
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I would agree with narc. I've been to Norway many times and xc skiing really is part of the culture.
I've been to Geilo a quite a few times and my girlfriend often goes off xc skiing after she gets back from a day on the slopes. You'll find some places (like Geilo I think) even have flood-lit xc tracks.
Norway ain't cheap - but if you go half-board and lay of the booze (which can be £6+ for a large beer) - you'd be suprised how how cheaply you can do it.
For instance, I'm going back to Geilo next year and have managed to get a package holiday incl. flights/transfers/caterered chalet/lift-pass, for £450 all in!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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carafw,
St. Johann/Kirchdorf get a bad press, especially with advanced snowheads, for alpine skiing but it has 275km of cross country trails and has recently won a Tirolean excellence award for quality. As with all low lying resorts though, March may be potentially a problem for snow in the valley. It is very popular with XC skiers and I can testify to that, having spent a lot of time in the area.
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Hi, does anyone have advice on where to go for an introductory week to learn the basics of cross country skiing? In Europe, scenic, not expensive (!) and around March?
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Just to add to all the other "only place to go" suggestions, is Les Saisies. One of France's top cross country resorts, the trails are high and snowsure and extremely scenic (Mont Blanc in evidence).
See the picture - the one in the hat was our instructor. Built like a racing spider, and great fun. She even had us doing "off piste" - not very successfully but it's much easier to get up on skis with free heels!
Don't go to one of those places where you just shuffle round in the bottom of a not-very-snowy valley.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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carafw,
Bessans in the Haute Maurienne has cheap self catering accommodation which is decent quality. The x country is high (1800m) and was skiable in aprill when I visited in a poor snow year. It is very scenic bordering on the Vanoise park though you are in a wide valley not on the hills. No idea what the qualty of the lessons are like but as it is a centre for x country I imagine they are reasonable.
http://www.bessans.com/hiver_skidefond.htm
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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carafw, you may be able to get away with no lessons. On a holiday to Sweden a few years back, 8 of our group gave it a try and successfully skiied all day with no instruction or prior experience. Some were boarders who'd never been on downhill skis.
Having said that only 2 of the 8 were up for it on a second day, but that was more to do with losing out on downhill skiing time.
This was at Are in Sweden, where cross country skiing conditions are very reliable in March.
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I agree on lessons not being particularly necessary if skiing classic (using the tracks laid out), however if you plan to skate (also known as freestyle) then I think they may be more relevant. I will warn you that things you'd quite happily ski downhill backward on alpine skis will seem another proposition indeed on skinny skis. Be aware that the boots vary dependent on whether you are skating or not.
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't agree that lessons are not necessary. I had a whole week's lessons and was still fairly rubbish at the end. Our instructor was very good (ex French army PT instructor!!) and kept telling us that this was a "sport de glisse" and that we were not to just shuffle along (like you see lots of people doing who haven't had lessons). They teach you to push and glide - and this is especially important when going on the flat or slightly uphill. It's far less tiring if you do it right - there are several different steps but we just learnt three, in our first week. Downhill was just a nightmare; I never did manage to snowplough very effectively and as for "turning step"  As long as the slope is OK to just stay in the tracks, keep your weight forward, and wait for a flat bit, it's fine. But trying to stop.... something else!
The boots AND skis vary depending on whether you are skating and as a beginner I think you'd be put in a "Classique" class - they don't take beginners in skating in Les Saisies, as a rule.
I think I'd have given up after one day without lessons; it's really no fun just shuffling around. But when you see some 75 year old lycra clad fellow effortlessly overtaking you, uphill, looking like he's not really trying, you realise it is quite a sophisticated technique which needs some learning.
I tried both snowboarding and cross country skiing for the first time when I was in my (very) late 50s. I found snowboarding a lot easier. Not easy. Just less difficult. Far less finesse needed, being firmly strapped to a damn great wide board with a metal edge on it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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that's how I dislocated my shoulder
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Not a bit surprised. I met a woman in the doctor's in Les Saisies who had what looked like an extremely painful shoulder - she'd just come in, having fallen in the ski de fond area. I had some quite severe falls, including one where my coccyx, already tender from snowboarding, came down right on my upturned ski. Was rather glad it had no metal edges, on that occasion. Anyone who thinks proper cross country is an easy option - think again! It's not too bad if the snow condition is really perfect - not slushy, not hard and icy. Hard and icy is grim. No edges.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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carafw,
I think it very important if learning as an adult, to get some decent instruction. Otherwise, you are likely to end up doing little more than snowshoeing, and you miss the point of the sport. I suggest you either go with one of the tour operators which organises teaching and ski-hire, or go to a resort which has a good quality of both. Some of the smaller resorts mentioned above may not have these.
Two suggestions from personal experience:
(1) Gaustablikk, Telemark, Norway. This is a small and isolated resort. There is a choice of a smartish hotel or a friendly ski lodge (Kvitaavatn) or numerous holiday cottages. It should have excellent snow in March, with good weather and the longer days. Several tour operators go there, or you can travel independently. KV organise the XC instruction and hire, which is good. There is a small downhill set-up too. Ski-touring is very popular, with of course lots of off-piste Telemark ski-ing. Scenic, but not pointy mountains. Night life is what you make it. Varies between very sedate or pretty viking. Easy to get by using English. I had a DIY trip to KV last year for under £500 pp full board, including ski hire, flights and a 4-hour bus transfer. I only drank the duty-free though!
(2) Ramsau am Dachstein, Steiermark, Austria. This is a resort in the Alps which specialises in cross-country. Well-maintained trails, first rate ski-hire, and the ski-school looked good too. There are a few little downhill slopes too, and it is a bus-ride from Schladming. There is a choice of non-skiing activities too. Scenery spectacular and a large choice of accommodation. I haven't been there in March, but it is at 1200m upwards and has a reputation for snow-holding. The resort caters mainly for Germans, so it helps to be able to order your Bier in that language. I don't know if the ski-school can find you an English-speaking teacher, as I haven't used them. The tourist board will probably find out for you. It should work out cheaper than Norway, and if you can get to Salzburg, it is a fairly short transfer. i don't know if any of the tour ops are currently using them.
Are you interested in going with a tour operator who organises lessons? If so, ask, and I can give you a list.
Other resorts which are mentioned as good for beginners travelling DIY are La Clusaz, Les Saisies, Geilo and Seefeld as mentioned above, Also St Moritz; and Yllas in Finland. The Yllas Humina is recommended, but I haven't been there myself. I would imagine the bigger Swedish resorts would be good too.
In Norway, the skiing is wonderful, especially in March, and it is great to see whole families out on skis together. However, decent instruction can be hard to come by and the ski hire can vary between mediocre and dire. I think the reason is that there is no local market for either. The Norsk Krone is at about the same level against the pound as last year, so it may be not be more expensive than than the Eurozone any more.
Ski instruction with the tour operators is a bit variable too. I have been amazed that some of the 'instructors' have managed to get their BASI, while some are among the best I have seen. I have heard terrible reports of French XC instruction too. It often seems to be a downhill skier who has taken XC as a second discipline, and doesn't have a clue. One of my mates saw an instructor teaching a class using his downhill ski-sticks! I think Pam W is lucky to have found a good one.
I didn't care for the St Johann/Kitzbuhl area - it was a bit round and round the bottom of the valley. I doubt you can rely on good snow in March. The Dolomites round Toblach have fabulous beginners skiing, accommodation, ski-hire and scenery, but may not be snow-sure in March. Ruhpolding would be a good beginners resort but is not very snow-sure.
I don't think it is quite such a dangerous sport, as the others above would have you believe. I have been doing it for over 40 years, and the worst injuries have been falling over in the car park and in summer training! You might get the odd bruise, but injuries are rare compared with downhill. I can think of a dozen acquaintances who have broken bones downhill ski-ing, usually caused by some muppet colliding with them in the lift queue.
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