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help please - ski boots.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi, first time on this forum.

I bought some ski boots about 3 weeks ago and absolutely love them, however stupidly i researched how a ski boot should fit after i had bought these boots. I went to snow and rock and was told that there were only 2 ski boots which would be suitable, because i have a narrow foot i have size 3.5 - 4 size feet. They wanted me to be in a 22 size boots - which i had tried on previously and couldnt even get my foot into the boot. i found the sales guy really rude. so I then went to another shop, the lady was great, and i tried on a number of boots. The ones i bought were salomon mynx - They fit really well (i think) but i took the lining out the other evening and there is a bigger gap than 2cm it is more like 2.5-3. I have got a size 23.5 boot. I took them back to the shop and the lady put some heel holders in and some foam things between the liner and shell. They feel comfortable my feet touch the end of the boot when i put my foot in and my heel stays in place when i flex. i can lift my heel up slightly but only when i am trying to..

Having looked on the internet more and more, i am worried i have the wrong size boots. I was thinking about getting some insoles would this help ( where do i put them in the shell or liner). I have read all these horror stories about getting boots too big.. any help would be great.. i am not sure if i can take them back now as they have been customed to my foot...

many thanks

han
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Sad
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hanuk26,

If the boots are too big, which it sounds there are, then there's no point adding more padding here there and everywhere.

CEM will be a long soon with the best advice don't listen to the rest of us amateurs.

CEMs website is www.solutions4feet.co.uk. Maybe give him a call if that's not too intrusive.
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Sad anyone want a pair of salomon mynx ski boots Sad
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hanuk26,

Some info in this thread might be useful to you.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=45491
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Take em back and reject them under the sale of goods act if they sold you the wrong size and are trying to botch it after the event.
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fatbob wrote:
Take em back and reject them under the sale of goods act if they sold you the wrong size and are trying to botch it after the event.


Is that fair? it sounds like the first shop were trying to sell the correct size.
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So the rude guy at S&R was right then? wink

Correctly sized boots will feel very tight at first, especially if you've not been correctly fitted before.

15-18mm shell gap for a good recreational fit & sub 15 for performance etc.

I agree with fatbob, just take them back.
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might try them on again tonight. it is fairly difficult to measure the gap any ideas?????
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hanuk26 wrote:
might try them on again tonight. it is fairly difficult to measure the gap any ideas?????


Maybe cut a piece of wood similar to the one used in this clip .....
http://broadbandsports.com/node/14923&loc=mostpop
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I bought my first boots from S&R 7 years ago. I am a small shoe size 4 with narrow heels and ankles and they sold me a size 23. Although they were comfortable at the time, I was a beginner and didn't know what they were meant to feel like. It was only last year in conversation with Mr CQ that I realised they were way too big. A fitter in resort stuck some extra padding in for me to see me through the rest of the week. This fitter (in Banff) told me my shell check was way too big - there was about 2 inches clearance behind the heel! No wonder my skis didn't do what my brain wanted them to because there was a satellite delay whilst my foot moved around within the boot.

I went back to S&R to get new boots last March and they still measured me up as a 23 even though I told them my old ones were way too big. Ellis Brigham said I was 22 or 22.5. As it turned out I ended up buying size 22 Salomon Idol 8s from S&R because they were the only ones with anything left and when I tried them on the fitter agreed that they probably were the right size after all. They are great and my skiing has improved a lot.

However, I did try on a size 22 in a "comfort boot" and because the padding was so thick my toes were very crumpled. The problem with thick padding is that they flatten out really quickly.

It's definitely worth trying Salomons in a 22 as I heard that they are ohe of the few that make a true 22, meaning that other companies just use a 23 shell with a lump of plastic in the front of the toe to take up the extra space. Not sure whether this makes a difference or not.
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Sure I've had a similar conversation to this on another thread and the general consensus of opinion was that my new boots (tried on in resort, bought cheaper online) are too big. They're a size 27 and my normal shoe size is 8/42...

My previous boots were also size 27 and I would never have known to buy smaller boots before reading opinions on this site. To be fair, I've tried on size 26 and 26.5 before and found them very tight, especially round the calves, but having never had boots fitted as such, I obviously didn't know what I was doing...

Clearly I'm stuffed now. If my new boots are too big, I can't afford to do anything about it, but I do intend to buy footbeds for them...

If only I'd found snowHead sooner eh...?
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I got some new boots a couple of years ago at Nevada Sports in Tignes. Previous ones were from S&R in Sheffield. The new ones are a much snugger fit, way better. When I was getting them fitting, the guy in there was trying to fit a snooty English woman for new boots. She kept saying they were too tight. He said that's how they should be. Eventually he refused to sell her any boots and sent her to a different shop. Good on him I say!
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hanuk26 wrote:
...couldnt even get my foot into the boot...


That's the very reason I've only ever had boots that are too big Sad

The ones I have now are 'okay' in a beginner/comfort zone, I really struggle getting into them, the man in EB said they were 'slightly too long' but there's a gap of less than an inch! He did help with hints & tips in how to get the things on & fastened without injury and was a very nice man Smile Am just hoping to progress a little this winter then reassess for next (reassess = new boots?)

Welcome to snowheads btw Smile
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endoman, I strongly suspect that was Franck (short and early balding?) He sold my son a pair of boots in April, but refused to give my wife any has he said that as it was end of season he didn't have the correct boot for her and was not going to sell her something just for the sake of it!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
thanks for all your help i dont think i can take them back which is the problem. I am going skiing beginning of Jan, so i think i am going to take them and see how they are.. Hopefully they will be ok, if they are not then will try and hire some and i can always get some more for next year Happy...

i am a bit confused, when the boot goes up half a size, does the shell alter or is it just the lining???? many thanks again.. does anyone think insoles will help???

my bfriend also bought a pair from s & r about 4 years ago, his are very small and hurt his toes, is there anything that can be done to help with this Happy

han
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hanuk26,

In my opinion these sort of problems are best sorted out with an experienced bootfitter such as CEM. It will cost money but having bad fitting ski boots is poor economy, the boot is the most important piece of ski equipment.

If it's any consolation you're not the only one who has bought boots that were too big (I've worn the T-Shirt too). In most cases you should cut your loses and start again which is very hard to do so people often end up investing more and more in a patch up process.

We all live, some of us learn (the hard way) Wink
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think i may as well try them when i go skiing in Jan, if they dont fit then my error and will know what to get for next time. Happy. Might put insoles in anyway - would i put them in the shell/lining????? at least the boots look pretty Happy
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hanuk26, Why can't you take them back unless there is a bit of the story we are missing such as you bought them on ebay? You bought them at a shop, they fitted you for the wrong size, you haven't used them. Only if they were trying to sell you a smaller size but you against their advice asked for a larger would I consider that they aren't culpable in this process. I assume from what you've said that they haven't blown out or ground the plastic shell and liners are 10 a penny. Odd that they wouldn't have recommeded footbeds at the time of purchase too if they were half decent.
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umm because she was really nice and i not very assertive - and i feel bad. all she did was do the custom fit thing. i have only worn them in the house Happy...
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spyderjon wrote:
So the rude guy at S&R was right then? wink


Laughing

Yes, but the nice lady was really sweet while offering no service whatsoever. wink
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i know, i am going to ring her today and see whether she has got a size smaller for me to try...... Happy
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hanuk26, listen to the others. You need to take them back. It doesn't matter whether she was nice or not - they are too big for you and you will be chucking money down the drain. Alternatively, I'm quite nice too - you can just send me a cheque for £250 or so Toofy Grin
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Quote:
Get Shell Fit. Remove the liner from the boot shell, then put your foot into the shell so that your toes barely touch the end of the boot. Anywhere from 1 to 3 cm behind your heel is a good guide. Generally, the more time you spend in ski boots the less space behind the heel. This is where the guidance of a good boot fitter, like us, is very helpful.


http://www.grizzlyoutfitters.com/pages/grizzly_outfitters_boot.html

I'm not a bootfítter, everyone's feet are different, over the internet solutions from unqualified people are risky and qualified people would need to see your feet.

3cm is a comfort fit, you might get away with it if you are looking for comfort rather than performance. The shop owner could say the boots are a comfort fit too. Don't try to fix it before you know if it's broken or not. If the liner has been moulded/ adapted to your foot I wouldn't put an insole in it without moulding again because what's inside the liner is now a different shape . Can't see the insole doing much to reduce the length although it will take up some volume.

If your boyfriend has high arches that are collasping then this could be causing his toes to hit the front of the boot, a footbed might help - again a visit to a good bootfitter should determine if this is the case. Maybe go to sort out his problem and just get them to have a look at your boots at the same time.

If you haven't yet skied in the boots it might be possible to do a deal with the shop where you pay for a new liner and in addition take / pay for a smaller boot from her.
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i braved the phone call - i rang her up... she was absolutely fine i think i was worrying about nothing.. She said to bring them in and she would have a look at them and for me to try a smaller size... thanks so much everyone.. !!!!
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hanuk26, seriously - I would ask for a refund. And go to a good bootfitters with your money where they won't sell you a boot too big.
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yup prob will do Happy thanks everyone. The only one near me is s/r and i am loathed to go there as the man was really rude.. hope everyone has a good time skiing if they are going this year...
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Good luck getting sorted.

hanuk26 wrote:
yup prob will do Happy thanks everyone.. hope everyone has a good time skiing if they are going this year...


Sounds a bit like "goodbye", feel free to pop in whenever you like, we're always here Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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not a goodbye will update you all when i have been back to the shop and when i have got some boots which actually fit Happy... thanks though for all your help.....

one more question... havent been skiing for 10 yrs as changed and snowboarded.. going back to skiing will i remember how to do it.. going to have lessons in the morning with efs.
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cathy wrote:
hanuk26, seriously - I would ask for a refund. And go to a good bootfitters with your money where they won't sell you a boot too big.


I'm not sure the boot could be definately deemed as being too big and that any fault is totally down to the shop. If the shop had a proper boot fitter would people be willing to pay for the service? Isn't this akin to someone buying a suit, having it altered and then deciding it wasn't right and asking for a refund? The fitting process relys on feedback from the customer, if the boot is selected based on this feedback why should the shop take the full hit? If the shop gives a full refund it will be probably be out of pocket as the boot is no longer 'new'.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB, well Snow & Rock said she should be a size 22. In the other shop she was given 23.5. Without knowing everything, that would seem to suggest that she was sold a boot that was too big - no? Isn't the task of a good bootfitter to know what size is suitable and not just rely on the customer's feedback? I'm sure CEM doesn't listen too much to all those sqeals of protest as feet are squeezed into boots wink Toofy Grin

hanuk26 - look forward to hearing how you get on. And how you get on with getting back to skiing snowHead Lessons are a good way to go - where are you going skiing?
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the s/r guy didnt have any ski boots in stock size 22 because he said that there would only be two boots out of the whole ski boot selection (anywhere) not just s/r that would fit. These boots were really expensive and very ugly, so i never went back to try them on. i had tried on a 22 size boot in decathalon - and couldnt get my foot in it the boot. So i went to this other shop, who just asked my shoe size, didnt measure my feet at she thinks the ski boots measurer is inaccurate... she didnt take the liner out and see the gap between lining and shell.... anyway she seems happy for me to change them and try on a different size... i havent tried them, they have just been custom fittted..

am off to la tania... for a week Happy... hope i like it as much as boarding.... Happy
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cathy wrote:
DB, well Snow & Rock said she should be a size 22. In the other shop she was given 23.5. Without knowing everything, that would seem to suggest that she was sold a boot that was too big - no?


I wouldn't take a sales assistant's opinion in S&R as gospel when it comes to fitting ski boots. I'd normally be inclined to have faith in a small specialist shop. Maybe the right size is 22.5 or 23, maybe 23.5 is OK for a comfort fit. There's also a lot more to the equation than Mondo size. Buying ski boots is often more like having a suit fitted than buying a pair of shoes.


cathy wrote:
Isn't the task of a good bootfitter to know what size is suitable and not just rely on the customer's feedback?


Different sizes could be suitable depending on what the customer was looking for (e.g. comfort or race fit). Even CEM gives good advice on here to be ignored, and there are many stories around where a seller/bootfitter recommends a more suitable size only to be told it's not comfortable. A good bootfitter will select the most suitable size and listen to the customer - some customers make it impossible to satisfy both and then expect a full refund later which I don't agree with.


cathy wrote:
I'm sure CEM doesn't listen too much to all those sqeals of protest as feet are squeezed into boots wink Toofy Grin


I'd guess some people have walked away to buy the wrong size boots elsewhere rather than realizing the boots will pack out and become more comfortable with time. Sometimes boot fitters must have the patience of a saint.
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Quote:

They feel comfortable my feet touch the end of the boot when i put my foot in and my heel stays in place when i flex. i can lift my heel up slightly but only when i am trying to..


I think the boots sound the right size.
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i think the best solution is to take them back try on a smaller size and see how they feel... i am not trying to be awkward but after hearing all these horror stories about boots being too big it got me worried Sad
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I think the main problem you may have with these boots is that if they are a comfort boot (rather than intermediate/advanced) the liners will be really thick and squidgy which is why the seem to fit now but after two or three weeks skiing will have totally flattened out and your foot will be rattling around inside. That is also why the "correct size shell" might feel much too tight because there is too much padding.

I found the only way round this was to move up to a more intermediate boot (Salomon Idol 8 in a size 22) where the padding is less dense and shouldn't pack out for a very long time.
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hanuk26 wrote:
.. Hopefully they will be ok, if they are not then will try and hire some and i can always get some more for next year Happy...

I believe (from tedious experience) that made to measure stuff never fits right. You want a suit that fits? Try them all on and buy the one that fits. You want a golf club/ guitar etc. (my hobbies) that is right for you? Try them all and buy the one that hits/ plays right.
You want a pair of boots that work right? Then ski in them.
The problem? You can't try before you buy. I'm sure you used to be able to, but nobody seems to offer it now.
When I last needed a pair of boots, I tried on loads of hire pairs. I stumbled across a pair of Lange that were excellent and I then bought them.
Mick
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Glad things are being sorted...

I tried the shell fit thing with mine and there was probably just under an inch gap. So yes, they probably are a bit big but not ridiculously so. Hopefully mine will be sorted with footbeds...

Thanks to everyone for the advice...
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sounds very much like the situation is under control here Toofy Grin , boots are very much too big, a boot in the correct size will probably feel too small unless it is fitted properly, by this i mean clipped up the right way, and the ankle flexed to pull the foot back in the boot

shape is as important as size, if the boot is the correct lenght but the wrong shape then you can have as many problmes as you get with a boot too big

putting heel hold pads and packing into a boot when it is new is a last resort tactic when all else has failed not a solution to amke a big boot smaller, take them back....sounds like that is what you plan anyway, get a smaller boot or a refund....fatbob, the sale of goods act is an interesting beast it works both ways.... if you leave the store with an item you are deemed to have accepted it [story time]this is exacty what i was told by trading standards when i called them about a particularily nasty client...they suggested i did nothing and let her try to go to court, her claims were unreasonable bordering on insane and she lied about here ability on her record card...a card which she had signed herself....amazing how she backed down when she discovered we had this information...all was resolved amicably..........[/end story], now if it hasn't been used then i am all in favour of a refund or exchange dependant on what the customer would like, a good fitter will stand by their work, but there has to be a bit of consumer input, if you are not happy , feel something is too big or too small then you have to say something, one thing i can't do is feel what your feet are feeling, handy as it ould be to plug a cable in at he knee cap to feel what is happening in there

i think the key is everyone is different, everyone has different tolerences and wants different things from their boots, the only way to get it perfect [sorry shouldn't say perfect what is perfect???] is to have the foot thoughorly assessed and start from there
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Some people are of such a size that they can't buy a suit that fits off the peg. The same is true for some people with ski boots. Some people even have feet that are different sizes. I'd say buy the pair that fits best and alter them if you have to. Using hire boots is a very good suggestion as you will be normally be using the boot in it's packed out state. Some boots are known for being very difficult to get into but ski like a dream once you're in (e.g. Lange).
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