 Poster: A snowHead
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Last time I went skiing I really struggled in deeper snow. I am not talking 6 foot deep, but maybe 2 or 3 foot deep. What I kept doing is turning too tight and falling over forwards because the skis would just grip too much. I know a bad workman blames his tools but I was on narrow carving skis at the time so I am hoping this year being on some all mountain skis will help me out a bit.
Is it really as simple as leaning back a bit and taking wider turns? The thing that was making me turn tightly last time was trying to control my speed. I guess I need to let my skis go a bit more?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In deeper snow i just keep my feet closer together and lean the hips into the turn more than actually force an edge to turn. It's smooth and effortless and feels like i'm floating and gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside 
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| Quote: |
In deeper snow i just keep my feet closer together and lean the hips into the turn more than actually force an edge to turn. It's smooth and effortless and feels like i'm floating and gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside
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This works for me too, although i tend to try to keep equal pressure over both feet too. All being well it should feel smooth and effortless. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The key is to have sufficient speed (power) to overcone the resistance of the snow. First steps off piste require the right snow and gradients in order to achieve some success, along with some experienced tuition. One has to work at the speed of the skis. All to often we see a skier's upper body initiating the third turn while the legs and feet has still not reached the required speed.
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| DrE wrote: |
| It really shows up any symetry issue with your tipping of the skis too as if they're not angled the same they turn at far differnt rates extremely quickly! |
Yeah had that issue a bit too! 
I do have a tendency to force the skis around into turns and that definitely doesn't work in deep snow. Going to Val Thorens for a week in January so I'm going to seek out some deep stuff and hopefully practise makes perfect!
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| troublemaker wrote: |
Is it really as simple as leaning back a bit and taking wider turns?
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Yes.
Don't worry about anything else yet - but remember its lean and NOT squat. Legs extended! Backseat is backseat wherever you are.
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| troublemaker wrote: |
| Is it really as simple as leaning back a bit and taking wider turns? The thing that was making me turn tightly last time was trying to control my speed. I guess I need to let my skis go a bit more? |
NO! Whatever you do, don't lean back, stay centered in your boots with your weight evenly distributed over both skis........
Some video tips here http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/online-tips.htm
regards,
Greg
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No, don't lean back (but certainly don't lean forward!) and even weighting of the feet is important. Wider skis will help a lot. You can turn small turns if you like but larger will be easier till you get the hang of it.
In every off piste condition except light, deep powder (including breakable crust) a good carved turn without skid is what you want.
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| snowball wrote: |
| and even weighting of the feet is important. |
exactly
Fore-aft posture, ski size, initiation, hat colour etc are all secondary issues ...
If you don't stand evenly on your skis, one will "sink" and the other rise ...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Trouble is, when I evenly weight my skis, and my head says 'turn', nothing happens except a general gathering of speed. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle,  I know that feeling!
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, someone gave me a tip. If you actually turn your head, your feet will follow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What worked for me was keeping the tips of the ski's level with each other, if you allow one ski to move back, probably the downhill side then you can find the ski's get snatched apart, for me this also had the effect of distributing the wieght better. The other tip I find good is not to go looking for your ski's. When my ski's first dissappeared below the snow I found my self looking down for them, if you do this early on you can find your body posture goes all a bit wrong, see above posts plus as speed helps it also helps to be looking much further ahead to plan your line so you can react more calmly to the need to turn . I'm not a teacher or an expert but these things helped me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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No ones' mentioned bouncing - sink down and complete the turn, plant the pole to initiate the next turn & come up strongly and steer into the next turn whilst your skis are light, near the surface, before sinking into the next turn.
It can be hard work on flatter slopes (as you need your strength to come up against gravity), but relatively effortless on steeper slopes as you tend to pop forwards out of the slope rather than upwards.
Watch any good powder skiier & see how they use the pole-plant combined with up unweighting....
Good practice on a shallower slope is straight running with no turns: plant, bounce, plant, bounce to get the feel of the snow, then start adding in some turns...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Forget the turns, just let rip and straightline it!
But if you must make a few turns, try to keep your weight more evenly distributed across the skis (bringing them closer together makes this easier), but otherwise ski normally as you would on groomed piste. You can practice this on piste first.
Leaning back is never good, stay centred over your boots as normal.
Fatter all-mountain skis with a less aggressive sidecut should be less grabby in deep snow and will make the whole thing easier. But there's no substitute for good technique.
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| geoffers wrote: |
| No ones' mentioned bouncing - |
I'm not that convinced that bouncing is as necessary with modern wider skis, get your balance and weight distribution right, tip em on edge and let the ski do the rest, job done
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| geoffers wrote: |
| No ones' mentioned bouncing - |
I'm not that convinced that bouncing is as necessary with modern wider skis, get your balance and weight distribution right, tip em on edge and let the ski do the rest, job done |
That's fine if you want to do big GS turns down a relatively gentle slope which is wide enough to use the skis natural radius when you edge it. Other slopes, narrower or steeper for example, might require more pressure on the skis to bend them into a tighter arc. I agree that this isn't bouncing as such, but its not a two-footed park and ride either. For deep stuff I'd be looking to use a lot of pressure in the bottom half of the turn to control turn shape, ski with more even pressure on both feet than I would on piste (closer together might help with this) and to fight to keep as centred as possible - not too far forward, not too far back. This is much more important in deep snow than on piste because the consequences of getting out of balance are normally more severe.
There's no substitute for getting a decent instructor working with you to make sure you're getting the fundamentals right. They will choose the right terrain for you and can give you immediate feedback of your technique and how to change it. Maybe a couple of hours of private lessons as an introduction to powder skiing when conditions are good?
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troublemaker, It sounds as though you're panicking a bit in the turn. The ski take longer to get round in deeper snow because of the resistance, and if you're not in a narrow couloir you need to allow them the time to turn. Let the ski do the work, but you have to stand a suffer a bit. Certainly do not lean back.
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| Quote: |
| It sounds as though you're panicking a bit in the turn. The ski take longer to get round in deeper snow because of the resistance, ... |
It doesn't take longer than a carved turn on piste, it is just that you cannot skid it round so much (not at all when the powder has compacted a bit).
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snowball, It seems longer, though because you do have to wait for the ski, and most people when trying off piste for the first time do try to do V turns rather than nice arcs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well sure, easiski, but a V turn isn't a carved turn, its a skidded swivel.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| geoffers wrote: |
| No ones' mentioned bouncing - |
I'm not that convinced that bouncing is as necessary with modern wider skis, get your balance and weight distribution right, tip em on edge and let the ski do the rest, job done |
How does that work with reverse sidecut skis? I thought the nuSkool powder technique was smearing (sliding) the turns?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| kitenski wrote: |
| geoffers wrote: |
| No ones' mentioned bouncing - |
I'm not that convinced that bouncing is as necessary with modern wider skis, get your balance and weight distribution right, tip em on edge and let the ski do the rest, job done |
How does that work with reverse sidecut skis? I thought the nuSkool powder technique was smearing (sliding) the turns? |
in soft snow (which is deep enough to cover the ski) the sidecut does not make you turn. the flex of the ski, along with any input (eg rotational movements) by the skier does this. Reverse sidecut skis make it easier to provide the input. reverse camber skis mean that the ski is bent already so the tips will not dive
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In heavy snow at the EoSB I was working on retraction type turn initiations which seemed to work well.
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In the Alps you don't often get the chance to ski deep, light powder so the recondite stuff above would only have occasional use.
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You know it makes sense.
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On piste, I generally spread my weight downhill/uphill ski at around 70/30%, so would it be fair to say that off-piste this should perhaps be 55/45% for example? Presumably there still has to be some difference to allow one's skis to turn as they're designed?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Chasseur, why?
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, yeah, I like retraction turns too.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Chasseur, no, 50/50% is essential. Skis aren't designed for any particular weighting. I have heard some people argue for 50/50 on piste too, though it is not what I was taught.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In VT last April, having spent several insightful hours learning that it doesn't matter what side of a mogul you plant yer ass on . . . it's going to hurt . . . even more so when FtS already has his grubby mitts on all your pain relief . . .
I digress, Our instructor took us into the soft stuff . . . and me on 165 SX needles so at 95Kg, 'float' is not a term I'm ever going to experience on these . . . but . . . by locking my knees and ankles together and lifting my toes with a little rear weighting I was able to steer with my ass, surfing on my heels. It was a lot like boarding with a rear foot slash. It had to have been as ugly as sin and it turned my thighs to jelly but it did actually keep me sliding. However, the smallest change to tip weighing had them burrowing and me ejected 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Of course a huge amount of it is confidence - the confidence to actually do the same, and with an extra degree of Oomph rather than an extra degree of instinctive caution. This applies particularly to breakable crust - though there I find it is best to try to ski something near the natural turn radius of the ski, rather than forcing tight turns as some people do,.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Chasseur, no, 50/50% is essential. Skis aren't designed for any particular weighting. I have heard some people argue for 50/50 on piste too, though it is not what I was taught. |
I doubt you would really achieve 50/50% most of the time in powder unless your legs are totally glued together or your turns are very shallow. If I presume my typical weighting on piste is 70/30% (it could easily be 80/20 or 60/40 in practice, I've never skied with load cells measuring dynamic boot pressure!), then I'm probably more like 60/40% in powder. What I mean is that I don't ski all that much differently in powder, I'm just a bit more aware of the pressure on the outside ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i have no clue what the distribution of weight is between my feet. what i do know is that i am always aware of making sure that one ski does not dig in much more than the other and making adjustments to prevent that
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| Arno wrote: |
| i have no clue what the distribution of weight is between my feet. what i do know is that i am always aware of making sure that one ski does not dig in much more than the other and making adjustments to prevent that |
Exactly right. Skiing is a dynamic sport, with constantly changing conditions. You'll get plenty of feedback if you get pressure distribution wrong, so tune in to that and make adjustments accordingly.
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FAQ
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technique and fitness IMV. If you've got good on-piste technique and have a good level of fitness then you should be able to ski the powder. 
