 Poster: A snowHead
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I've read the forum entries on GPS gadgets and also quite a lot of general reviews from other web sites and I'm very confused !!!
I want to buy a fun, reasonably priced (less than £150) Ski Gdaget for my hubby for Christmas and thought a GPS gizmo aimed at skiers would be just the thing, however I'm now knee deep in product information but I'm rather confused !
I've summarised the various gadgets I've looked at below .... first off ... is my summary right ?? secondly from folks that have used these different devices ... what is recomended ?
SatSki GPS - optimised sat nav for Skiers , with direction advice whilst skiing, speed and position featues and ability to upload your day's skiing to your computer ..... however very expensive and available maps seem limited to France and the odd Italian resport.
The Garmin EXtrex range - sat nav aimed at walkers ... so I'm assuming skiers speeding down slopes would be beyond it's capabilities
The Garmin GPSmap range - seems aimed at sailors ... so again I'm assuming it's not ideal for skiers (mountain altidtude isn't generally something sailors worry about !)
Garmin Forerunner range - sees aimed at runners and cylists so maybe a good compromise, you seem to get basic post run data like speed, tracking infomation for uploading to your computer (and GoggleEarth) etc, but this one doesn't actually provide navigation whilst on the slope (still need the old paper piste map then!).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depends what you want to do with it really, map runs etc or just play around with stats, I use a Navman A300 basically gives you avg and top speed, total distance, total descent etc
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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eTrex Skiing would not be beyond the capabilities of an eTrex. I use mine for mountain biking, as well as walking, and have used it for (very crude) navigation in the car (in the US when my normal satnav did not have US maps). Mine doesn't work when in a pocket, but it's ancient - the new high sensitivity receiver versions may work OK.
GPSmap has the 60 and 76 range. 76 is the one for marine use, and 60 is smaller (I think) and more like a fully loaded upgrade to eTrex users who want a lot more.
colorado/oregon even more loaded, but buggy software (unless it's been fixed, you really need the beta test firmware).
Never used Satski, Forerunner, or the bike range of GPS devices. All the above really need a laptop and cable to download data each day, unless all you care about is total distance and vertical change. All will eat a pair of rechargables per day.
What do you really want it for? Recording ground track and altitude variation and overlaying on Google Earth/Maps? (eTrex or GPSmap would work for that), or just simple distance covered and number of runs? (can get specific watches for that, but they'll be more expensive than an eTrex).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Your comparison test is flawed - you're not comparing like for like.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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MoyaM, Welcome to  I've a Garmin Edge 205 which is the bike version of the Forerunner. An example of the output can be seen here. I've not used it for skiing but plan to do so this Winter. Examples of ski trips can be seen on Motion Based by searching. I don't see it being any more than a fun thing for providing this sort of an output for a day or so. Problems I can see for skiing are battery life and data storage without a PC also to upload to at the end of the day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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a ski specific kit will probabvly discount lifts phases from overall stats (except hieght gained)
a suunto watch might also be worth a look depending on what you want
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MoyaM, From what i've read the SatSki GPS is at the leading edge in this market. All the others are designed for specific pastimes, walking riding etc.
I do know that regardless of which model you have, you'll just about get one days use on their batteries.
I have used the Garmin Extrex and Vista while ski-ing and the data was rather 'raw' and no onboard maps that related to the ski resorts. The new GPS SatSki, has actual onboard ski run mapping. It has been out for some time but was originally on sale at over £1000 per unit. Now its down below £200.
Just seen a map product, in another thread, called SnowRanger Europe that supposidly has resort mapping. I may take a look. But fo that, maybe a free piste map is still the best option?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MoyaM, there is also the Ski logger (http://www.gtrek.co.uk/index.html), which is basically a gps reciever which tracks and stores where you have been during the day, there is no navigation element. Gives you speed, and you can displays your tracks on google earth, and various other stats. the device and software is £99. But, you need a laptop to download the data at the end of the day.
It all depends what you want.
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I have just checked the SnowRanger Europe maps for Chamonix and there are some runs missing!
I have a Garmin Vista with mapping capabilities but never use it for resort skiing but it would be fine, but be aware with the Garmin you need to pay extra for the maps as the installed base maps are all but useless.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have also used Garmin units like the Vista and watch OK. But how to maintain the antenna's clear sky view is not easy. A side benefit of recording your day/tracks is that you can use them to geo-mark-up your photos (so you can see them on google maps etc)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi moya
good luck!
Freerider hits it on the head - how much of a geek is your hubby?
Most of the GPS units are designed to do 1 or 2 things well..... e.g the Forerunner's from Garmin are very good tools for runners, and give you lots of useful info whilst running. The eTrek's are more for walking/mapreading - to be honest, if you're walking somewhere you need a map, you'd be foolish to _rely_ on your gps for anything other than confirming your position, 'cos once the batteries go flat, your stuck.
I used my forerunner quite happily whilst sailing, as a backup to give GPS co-ordinates, and it links to a laptop easily, and with some quite simple to use programs like Sports Track (free download), or the Garmin software (included), you can look at graphs etc.... but without a laptop, it's not nearly as much fun.
If you're bloke is the sort of person who reads forums (like this one) but for 'computer' stuff, is happy downloading programs and reading online help forums, he most probably would enjoy a new gadget - BUT he might already have strong views on what he'd like (most people who like gadgets are quite opinionated on what is good/bad, and my partner won't buying anything electrical now without asking me first, just 'cos she doesn't want to buy the 'wrong' thing).
FWIW, any of the 'basic' GPS watches will give you current/lap/average 'speed', and the ski-specific ones will give altitude/descent amounts.... all 'fun'....
Have you thought about walkie-talkies instead? 'gadgety', easy to use, and possibly much more _useful_....
good luck (again!)
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You know it makes sense.
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I have the Etrex Vista Cx with the Topo Alpes for france and it does Speed, Altitude, averages, Maps of where you are in relation to lifts etc, in short I can't fault it. It's waterproof (enough for skiing, probably not diving, but then you'd freeze before it did anyway  ) It is light and robust and works in my pocket/rucksack (better battery life in pocket)
However, unless you have a super duper aerial which might involve some sort of whippy antenna thing, you will always have trouble picking up satellite cover in Bubbles and Cables and heavy tree cover. Therefore when you come to download it onto GoogleEarth or whatever else you choose, you will have gaps and slightly unlikely speeds.
In short GPS is not foolproof technology, but certainly can give a good idea of when, where, how fast etc.
ps I love mine, especially when it says I have been going faster than you are allowed on the motorway!!! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi all, this is direct from Satski , just want to correct some information and assist here ? 1- Satski now has over 80 European resorts covererd as of the 1 December. Satski Offers FREE downlaod of Ski Piste maps and resort information for Smart Phone users . Satski, the new GPS UNIT has a 10 hour battery and comes with a Spare Battery (also 10 Hrs)
Satski does not require software to replay your days skiing , it will replay it immedeatly on it touch Screen. The Satski Units has a Flash Player /can play videos , MP3 Player and more toys. The Smart Phone software starts at 39 Euros so that wont break the bank ! GPS Smart Phones are also going down in Price. So Downloads are cheaper than buying a Unit. Its Satski's intention to offer the software for around €5 to €10 Euros next season and eventually for FREE - The Mobile version provides you with weather reports , resort information and Piste conditions. Even if I say it - its way ahead of any Garmen or any other tracking system and offers many more features and functions. Its also a Navigation tool you try ask a Garmen to get from point A to B by avoiding Black Pistes and then animate the route you need to take ! From SATSKI
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Poster: A snowHead
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I contacted SatSki, apparently a new model is due for release in Dec. Improved battery life of 12 hours.
The other product I mentioned earler SnowRanger, it allows an overlay to be imported into a Garmin. But I have concerns about the accuracy of the european data. I used a simple lift map to check and in Val Thorens there are several errors:-
From top of the Funitel Grand Fond there are three runs missing. Niverolles (blue run) Medialle (red run), Variante (red run). There are also no black runs listed and the Glacier chair that goes to Glacier de Peclet is aslo omitted.
I received 'we are concerned' reply from mountaindynamics. Including:-
| Quote: |
| We rely on our data supplier Navionics for the bulk of the map content, and we have selectively reviewed and augmented certain areas. For the Trois Vallees for example we verified that all the lifts (other than small ski school tows and carpets) are present, but not necessarily all of the pistes. |
I know is an American product but I might have been better if they'd checked the eurpoean pistes as well ! 
If anyone is considering SnowRanger, can I suggest you do a comparrison against the resort map you intend to use it in first. Their web site allows you to preview the resort product before you buy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jean claude wrote: |
| Hi all, this is direct from Satski |
Hi Jean Claude
Welcome to and thanks for the update - quite and interesting product you have there...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jean claude, welcome to Snowheads. Yes, thanks indeed. Very interesting. Can you point us to a list of the French resorts covered?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Many thanks to everyone who provided advice re' my original post ... it was all really helpful. I've now settled on getting a SatSki GPS unit ... the price is right for me and it ticks all the right boxes (ski maps, playback, speed measuring, etc) seems to have a fairly easy ability to add new ski maps (lots more resorts are promised on their web site in the coming weeks), and I gather they are thinking of adding walking and cycling maps in the future so it seems to have multi uses. The customer service from Jean Claude has been excellent ... I put a question in via the SatSki website and got an answer personally from him within hours!
In fact, almost sounds too good to be true !! We're off to Austria at Christmas so will be putting Sat Ski unit through it's paces ... I'll report back what my hubby thinks of it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Are they still on target to release all those resort updates on Monday?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I am using since two years FRWD B600 and i am very happy with this gadget. See http://www.frwd.fi
You can use it for all your sport. Give nice diagrams of your heartbeath, place your track on Google, displays realtime info on your Nokia mobile.
Interesting software for your PC.
Enough power for a day!
B600 IS THE KEEP-FIT ENTHUSIAST'S CHOICE
- A recording sports computer with a mobile connectivity and navigation software including the analyzable aftermaths
The package includes:
FRWD Recorder Unit
Arm strap
FRWD Replayer Pro PC Software (CD)
FRWD Mobile Player mobile software (CD)
Manuals (CD)
Heart rate transmitter belt
Battery charger and 4 rechargable batteries
Price 179 EUR
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MoyaM, that does sound rather good. I'd love to get one of the 3V for my son, who is working for the season in Meribel, but we've already promised him half a new garage door for his Christmas and birthday present - he needs that much more, though the gadget would be a lot more fun. And easier to wrap. Do report back on how it is in practice.
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| MoyaM wrote: |
Many thanks to everyone who provided advice re' my original post ... it was all really helpful. I've now settled on getting a SatSki GPS unit ... the price is right for me and it ticks all the right boxes (ski maps, playback, speed measuring, etc) seems to have a fairly easy ability to add new ski maps (lots more resorts are promised on their web site in the coming weeks), and I gather they are thinking of adding walking and cycling maps in the future so it seems to have multi uses. The customer service from Jean Claude has been excellent ... I put a question in via the SatSki website and got an answer personally from him within hours!
In fact, almost sounds too good to be true !! We're off to Austria at Christmas so will be putting Sat Ski unit through it's paces ... I'll report back what my hubby thinks of it. |
I have done the same. Despite a little bit of a delay with shipping (these guys must have so many orders!) I am assured I will get mine on the 3rd December- ready for a trip to Val Thorens. I shall provide a review when I get back!
Looking forward to it as VT is such a great (and big resort) I don't know about everyone else but I usually find excellent runs and think how the heck did I get there? really frustrating when you want to do the whole run again! Usually happens when I am in a class and the instructor finds a part of the range that is hardly used with hardly any lift queues!
Love this gadget- so looking forward to receiving it!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well looks like my great idea for a Christmas present is not going to happen after all, I ordered a SatSki GPS having being assured (in fact 'guaranteed') that the Ski area we are going to at Christmas ( Scheffau in Austria and the Wilden Kaiser - Brixental ski area) would be available by Dec 14th. The unit arrived promptly and I received good initial support when I had a problem with the USB cable not working), however it's now Dec 15th and we will be leaving for Austria very shortly and currently the Scheffau map is still not available for download and the promised USB replacement cable has not materialised. Without the appropriate map the unit is a waste of money..... big disappointment. I'd advise anyone ordering a SatSki GPS to make sure the ski area they are going to is available for download BEFORE placing their order. In retrospect, my enthusiasm for this fun new gadget over ruled my normal caution with salesmen's promises.
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MoyaM, exactly the same situation here advertised with Banff and Lake Louise but they weren't available for download.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, I thought I'd let everyone know that SatSki did come through with the map I needed at the 11th hour! (I've a feeling some technicians did quite a lot of overtime on my behalf!!). The map didn't have absolutely all the bells and whistles it was supposed to but was enough for our purposes. My husband loved it so it was a success as a Christmas present.
From my (non technical) view point the pros of the SatSki unit are :
- great for seeing where you have been each day and so reminding you which lifts , runs and restaurants are worth doing again
- great entertainment value with other skiers .. showing them where you have been over a drink or two in the evening
- fun to see how fast you've skied and how many miles you've covered
- easy upload capability to Goggle earth when you get home
- can double up as a music player and also has some simple games (my daughter and I happily played Connect 4 for an hour when stranded in a mountain restaurant one day)
Cons:
- you will need the spare battery provided by satski and must remember to change it at lunch time
- The user manual is virtually non existent ..... we had lots of usage questions, however the techline support was exceptional ... my husband txted a question to them on Christmas day and got an answer within a couple of hours! But SatSki really need to put some work into providing some sort of user guide.
- Device screen is pretty small and there's a lot of information packed on to it - I wouldn't advise trying to read it whilst standing on the piste ... it's more of a get it out over a hot chocolate or evening drink thing.
Finally, it's not meant to be a TomTom for skiers - you'll still need to get your lift map out to work out where to go, however SatSki will tell you were you are now and where you've been!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nice review, got the download for my windows mobile phone, and looking forward to having a play next month on the slopes 
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Took ages to arrive- all very good with a personal approach to customer service. When I used it for my ski holiday in Val Thoren it clocked me doing average speeds of 68 kph, jumped all over the place and failed to update quick enough.
I have been trying to return it for a refund and satski have not assisted me yet. It's been over a month now. Very suspicious and annoying.
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You know it makes sense.
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well Satski have contacted me. After phoning them today they are offering a replacement unit- I am asking for a full refund. I shall let people know the outcome. In the meantime I suggest that people save their money to avoid disappointment. I could be very un-lucky and have got a faulty unit. (which under the sales of goods act 1979 ammended, I am entitled to a full refund)
Those of you that have seen the review on the gadget show- its nothing like the one they showed on there! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Guys that have posted to this thread that own a Satski- have you had any problems with them?
Are they accurate enough?
To they jump about drastically when playing back the days runs?
Do they think you are on a lift when you are not?
Are they slow to update?
Have they clocked you doing outragously silly speeds?
Or is it just mine?
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Poster: A snowHead
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tbanting, How did you get on? I'm still waiting on a replacement. 7 weeks !
May only be a coincidence but I was also in Val Thorens when I had problems.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| BMF_Skier wrote: |
tbanting, How did you get on? I'm still waiting on a replacement. 7 weeks !
May only be a coincidence but I was also in Val Thorens when I had problems. |
Well I am lucky enough to be in Jackson Hole- unfortunately its not down to the resort- I am having the same problems here. I am therefore persuing a claim via the credit card company for a refund.
I shall, in future buy via more well known companies like Amazon. I think the Garmin is a much better buy, having seen and used my ski instructors device yesterday.
He had a Garmin Oregon 300 plus all of the US maps for $440. The European ones are quite expensive though but I have a Garmin satnav for the car and trust the brand.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kaiser wrote: |
I have the Etrex Vista Cx with the Topo Alpes for france and it does Speed, Altitude, averages, Maps of where you are in relation to lifts etc, in short I can't fault it. It's waterproof (enough for skiing, probably not diving, but then you'd freeze before it did anyway ) It is light and robust and works in my pocket/rucksack (better battery life in pocket)
However, unless you have a super duper aerial which might involve some sort of whippy antenna thing, you will always have trouble picking up satellite cover in Bubbles and Cables and heavy tree cover. Therefore when you come to download it onto GoogleEarth or whatever else you choose, you will have gaps and slightly unlikely speeds.
In short GPS is not foolproof technology, but certainly can give a good idea of when, where, how fast etc.
ps I love mine, especially when it says I have been going faster than you are allowed on the motorway!!! |
That sounds just the ticket, were did you get the topo maps from? did they cost much? do they work with memory map?
Cheers
Paul
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| MoyaM wrote: |
I've read the forum entries on GPS gadgets and also quite a lot of general reviews from other web sites and I'm very confused !!!
I want to buy a fun, reasonably priced (less than £150) Ski Gdaget for my hubby
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I would rather have a fun, reasonably priced lift pass 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Have you thought about the many applications available for GPS enabled mobile phones?
One less item to carry
one less charger to carry
less cables to worry about
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BMF_Skier, I recently bought a Garmin Oregon 300 for hill walking (it supports 1:50,000 OS maps of all the UK) and would be interested in the Snowranger ski resort maps. Apart from the odd missing piste (!) how do you rate them?
The Garmin seems excellent by the way, and works fine even when inside its protective carry case. Battery life seems to be about 3 or 4 days constant use which is ample.
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FAQ
