 Poster: A snowHead
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we are going to alpe d'huez at new year, and i can't decide whether to book ski school or not.
we are both comfortable carving down the snowdome slope, and can do short and long radius turns. we have been skiing abroad for a few weeks, although generally to areas with mainly red and blue runs, which we could ski without too much difficutly.
i really feel uncomfortable not knowing the terrain, and anything much about mountains - i know that sounds daft but we have skiied in finland mainly before (only one hill about 500m high - but great snow!). looking at the piste map, it's such a massive area, and 'd be worried if we took a wrong turn, got lost, or decided to try the tunnel and realise it was just too hard!.
so i'm wondering about booking into mornings only esf, more almost for ski guiding rather than the instruction component. i am pretty happy with my technique in turning, i just feel i don't know what to expect from the mountain and which runs we could manage safely.
other option might be a couple of private lessons at lunchtime time, to learn how to do moguls and try a couple of trickier runs with advice.
having no experience of mountains or ski school (all our lessons have been in the uk and i read quite a few books), what do you reckon?
many thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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blueberry, Hate ESF but if nothing else while probably more expensive, go for private lessons, much better value in the long run.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You could join the Ski Club and use their resort rep for guiding round the resort?
I don't know Alpe D'Huez, but somehow who does might be able to recommend a good ski school there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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blueberry, Are you travelling with a TO? Quite a few of them offer ski guiding. There won't be any instruction/responsibility but they will show you around the area, which is the time consuming bit. And then do what thefatcontroller says. Spend out on a couple of hours private tuition, which will give you tons more knowledge in a shorter space of time.
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blueberry, If all you want is guiding then join an ESF group class. If you want guiding and instruction with a million stories follow the masterclass.  Asking your question is like saying how long is a peice of string - it will vary hugely from resort to resort. Private lessons will always give better value than group lessons, but for skiing around with the odd hint and tip and group of 12 is OK.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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At least you get to jump the lift queues 
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My wife and daughter went through the ESF system in Meribel and had consistently excellent instructors. My wife is a French speaker though and did her lessons in the french speaking section.
My daughter isnt and went in the "international" classes and received excellent tuition. They only complaint she had was during the last week of ski school in the "competition" class they spent all day running the stade and she got a sore bum from the poma  her skiing came on remarkably that week and the trainer was very helpful with us and gave us feedback at the end of each days lesson on things to work on in the afternoon. Do any British ski schools do that?
Sure, the ESF at half term is oversubscribed for beginners and kids and can have silly class sizes, but for intermediates are generally very good IME.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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blueberry, I can definitely recommend Masterclass - great instruction on I think 3 mornings during the week for the group lessons, or of course you can book a private. I don't think they have large group classess in any case.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| At least you get to jump the lift queues |
which over the new year week will not be an insignificant advantage!
thanks for all the ideas.
the SCGB looks worth joining. does anyone know about their guiding service - the website seems to imply it is whole days? we can only ski until 1.30 as we need to collect the kids from creche after that.
yes, we are going with TO, crystal, and actually they seem to do ski guiding 3/week also.
i'm just checking out masterclass to see if they still have any spaces also
hmmm, so many options but it's good to have choice
thanks
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| blueberry wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
| At least you get to jump the lift queues |
which over the new year week will not be an insignificant advantage!
thanks for all the ideas.
the SCGB looks worth joining. does anyone know about their guiding service - the website seems to imply it is whole days? we can only ski until 1.30 as we need to collect the kids from creche after that.
yes, we are going with TO, crystal, and actually they seem to do ski guiding 3/week also.
i'm just checking out masterclass to see if they still have any spaces also
hmmm, so many options but it's good to have choice
thanks |
In which case I wouldn't bother with ESF - it's just an additional cost.. crystal will get you around the place and actually ADH is pretty straight forward. If you stay on the 'main-bit' of the hill - i.e. not going down to oz or vaujany or the 'scary chair' then it's pretty difficult to get lost. By your description of your skiing - it's not like you'll want to stick on the greens, so I wouldn't worry about it. Besides getting lost is part of the fun!!
Once you've found you bearings the red off the top of the main bubble down to oz or vaujany is a great blast..should be quite possible to blast down and back in a morning.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
the SCGB looks worth joining. does anyone know about their guiding service - the website seems to imply it is whole days? we can only ski until 1.30 as we need to collect the kids from creche after that.
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They do the guiding for a whole day but I can't see why you couldn't drop out at lunchtime if you needed. They tend to do a "Get to know the resort" day on the first day which is worth doing as you'll be more confident about reading the piste map then. Bear in mind that they take different levels out on different days so you won't be able to ski with them every day. I think the limit's meant to be two days.
I'd probably go for a couple of days guiding with the SCGB and a couple of private lessons. Either that or just use the Crystal ski guiding. I normally end up having spent so much time poring over piste maps and other information that I've practically memorised it by the time I go and don't really need a guide. 
For what it's worth, I learned with the ESF many years ago and I loved the lessons. Never had a bad instructor (apart from the one who made us learn monoskiing), lots of feedback and not too large groups. Got up to some sort of slalom badge with 4 weeks instruction so they weren't that bad. That was a while ago though. My mother really didn't like the group lessons but I think that was more to do with the fact she was about half as fit as the next person in the group.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| the trainer was very helpful with us and gave us feedback at the end of each days lesson on things to work on in the afternoon. Do any British ski schools do that? |
Yes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, Not necessarily - that will be a local thing too. In LDA we can all jump the Qs with 4 or fewer students, but no-one can with group lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, sorry i didnt explain that properly, i meant the instructor giving the parents daily feedback on the childs performance and things to work.... I havent come across that from a brit school, if you have thats reassuring.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| laundryman, sorry i didnt explain that properly, i meant the instructor giving the parents daily feedback on the childs performance and things to work.... I havent come across that from a brit school, if you have thats reassuring. |
NewGen in Les Arcs. Certainly seemed to be a regular thing when I did some shadowing with them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My experience of ESF, and that of friends I've skied with, is more miss than hit. I've had a couple of very good guys, but too many who were enjoyable to ski with but didn't do much teaching. For a long time I've tried to maximise my chances of getting a good instructor, and this has been either recommendations for specific people or stick with small ski schools (often Brit run). Not had a bad teacher in over a decade that way. Can cost a bit more than ESF, but worth it in my opinion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My only experience with ESF was bad. The only words I can remember him saying were 'do this' and 'up and down like a spring'. I gave up the last two days. However, another person in my class was doing double lessons and said the other instructor was better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As has been said it's down to who you get. Bit like your teachers at school! Some instructors want you to learn and have as much fun as you can....some just there for the totty/lift pass/showing off. Had private lessons in Breckenridge and the instructor(young Aussie guy) was awful. All he did was show us how good he was(not that good to be honest)......I want to be shown technique and told how it should feel when you get it right! Not told to gun it into a big kicker (having only done small ones) and land on my backside putting me of the slopes for 3 days! Still it was funny for my mates. I had to have my buttocks massaged(I'm not joking!) and electro-stimulation pads (although I could set the strength). Couldn't sit down for over a week!!
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| blueberry wrote: |
| ........ but we have skiied in finland mainly before (only one hill about 500m high - but great snow!). |
Hi there blueberry where in Finland did you ski? Last year I skied in Himos which is about 3 hours north of Helsinki. I convinced my Finnish friend to take me to Himos as her folks lived a stone's throw away from the slopes. There are lots of x-country trails in the area, but as you described, really only the one hill. Lots of different runs though of all colours
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we went to yllas.
chose it the first year with 2 and 4 yr old kids, to try out the reindeer and husky sledging, and sneak a bit of skiing in too, then last year we skied the whole week as the kids were 1) skiing much better and 2) liked the creche more!
there was just one black run but loads of reds.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It might be nice to have an adventure and discover the resort for yourselves. I must admit it has taken me many years to overcome the fear of the unknown in a new resort, but it is also great fun to discover a run for the first time. A guide might be a nice idea.
I only ever had one lot of lessons from ESF after having started out in Austria and Italy. It was ok for a couple of days in a small group of nervousish adults, then they added a couple of kids to the group and pushed it to their pace which got rubbish. So they bumped me down to a total beginners group, since it was Christmas and there was no other intermeidate group, and I spent a BORING time being tootled around a load of green runs. I then had a fall and the guy left me on the hill, as he was too focused on getting to his next bunch of clients. I'd torn my triceps pretty badly [judging from the size of the bleed I got and the excruciating pain I was in], and it kind of made me think 'Stuff it' to ESF, and ski lessons for a LOOOONG time. I would also rather ski with my DH than PAY GOOD MONEY to ski with a bunch of 12 strangers, where you might end up hanging about on some frozen waste waiting for the likes of me to get the bottle to schuss or pick themselves up off the ground. Not sexy. But I am a grumpy old whinge at times.
I am sure a resort like ADH will have some pretty good non-ESF guides.
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what you really need is a reccomendation for a good instructor rather tan th eski school as a whole.
Mnay instructors seem to work for a wide range of schools...
you want a good one!
I'd go for either- private lessons with friends / family and a good instructor regardlesss of ski school afiliation or SCGB group.
I think there is a thread on instructors
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Echo what's been said above, get a recommendation for school/guide and then go from there. I would go for a 2hr private lesson, will help build confidence while getting a quick overview of the area.
If you do go for group lessons, they are not all bad, the same applies, do your research. I've done a couple of ski school weeks with up to 8 people each time and had a great laugh. Made some friends we've kept in touch with. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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blueberry, Why don't you get lessons in UK at local slope, thus allowing you to enjoy your holiday without playing follow my leader, which most instruction seems to consist of in Alps. Although dry slopes are no where near the real thing, they are harder to ski on and I find it makes skiing on snow easier by comparison. In addition my experience from dry slopes is that the instructor will show you what to do, then watch you one by one and tell you where you're going right/wrong
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You know it makes sense.
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blueberry, I have a terrible bump of direction, but found that in Alpe d'Huez, the signage was clear, as was the map, and the piste grading seemed sensible too. It was all perfectly do-able without any guiding (all on piste, of course). That said - I did try the Tunnel and it was indeed too hard!  One problem with guiding, for me, is that I find it difficult to be in a class/follow an instructor and still be aware of the general topography: so, if I'm with a guide all day, I never really get to work out where I've skied. But maybe that's just me - it's the same if I'm a passenger in a car, it's only when I'm driving that I have a proper awareness of where I'm going/have been. But, that said, an early orientation day or half day with the Ski Club rep, as olster says, would be a fine way to start off in an entirely new resort. The Ski Club let you avail yourself of the rep service for one day without being a member, so you wouldn't even have to join up, if that's all you did.
Of course, finding one's way around and having lessons are two different things. Over the years, I've had both bad and good tuition with ESF, as others have said, it depends on the individual. I always went into French-speaking classes, don't really know if that makes a difference or not. I guess if it's good tuition you want, private lessons are best and then it's a question of personal recommendation. Maybe someone will come along in a minute with recommendations of particularly good instructors in the resort, I've only been there once and didn't have any lessons.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Wayne wrote: |
| There is one major bonus that the ESF offer (in Tignes anyway). They have very furry hoods on thier jackets. What more can you ask for ? |
I thought that was just Stewart's preference
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MarjMJ wrote: |
..... I then had a fall and the guy left me on the hill, as he was too focused on getting to his next bunch of clients. I'd torn my triceps pretty badly [judging from the size of the bleed I got and the excruciating pain I was in], ......
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That is awful. Did he see you and deliberately leave you? Even if he didn't see you it's still pretty bad.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BLUEBERRY, Ive only had ESF instruction once, alst season in the pyrenees resort. I found the instructor extremely helpful and asked us personally where we would like to ski. This way we knew where we had skied and he just took us there whilst teaching at the same time. Gerenally though, pistes in most resorts are signed and quite easy to navigate around. The resort i skied at in the pyrenees, the ESF achool also offered a ski 'guiding' lesson where there is little tuition but they show you the ropes of the resort. this could be a useful and helpful option if availible
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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thanks guys for all the advice
i have now booked a set of 3 x 2hr small group (max 6) lessons with stuart from masterclass, after several of you recommended him.
we will try out the crystal rep - and if the SCGB do 1 free days guiding we might try that out too.
I now feel more comfortable that we will have the time to explore and go out our own pace, as well as get to know the ropes and have a bit of local knowledge as well.
it sounds like the previous runs we've skiied in finland are maybe not so well signed as in france. the runs were forever branching half way down and we'd miss the turning as we sped past - but it didn't matter as all the runs pretty much finished in the same place at the end!
cheers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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blueberry, sounds like you have done the right thing booking up with Masterclass-the technique they will teach you no doubt will be very similar to what you have been taught at Snowdomes in the UK.
I have also skied in Finland, well Lapland, at Levi. It is very different to skiing in France in the way that you haven't got the altitude (Levi is at about 200m I think, Alpe D'Huez about 1800 ish) which makes physical activity a wee bit more difficult for some and also the runs/pistes are nowhere near as long in Levi. It is very well signposted in the French resorts I've been to, I can't speak for all but I expect they are all good. That was one thing I did notice about Levi, the signposting was awful, especially with it being a bit dark as well (I was there in Feb one year when the sun sets much earlier than it does in France although the slopes were floodlit). Also I did notice that the runs seemed a lot easier, even the black run was a lot easier than I was expecting it to be having skied elsewhere probably because the pistes weren't as steep because of the height of the mountain, for example the vertical drop in say Alpe D'Huez will be about 10 times as much as Levi. The snow was very good though as you'd expect there because of the cold.
So what I'm saying is, don't worry if you find it a bit more hard going in Alpe D'Huez to start off with, once you've got used to it after a couple of days if you ever go back to Finland it will be an absolute and will be skiing it like a pro!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jeraff, He certainly did as he hauled me up off the piste. It was not edifying. I ended up staggering down about the edge of the piste to get the gondola down the mountain, sobbing with what at the time I thought was a broken arm and trying to carry my skis.
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FAQ
