 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all! Been lurking for a while but now seemed to be the time to post. I have time off work booked for the first two weeks of December and I'd like to book a trip flying into Munich for two weeks. My basic plan would be to spend four nights in Munich, and four nights (3 days skiing) in two resorts.
I only have one week's skiing experience, however am keen and am looking to get some private lessons so that I'm more up to scratch with my mates when we go away properly in March. I'm not too bothered about where I'm going, however I want to travel by train and get hostel/cheap/shared accomodation to keep living costs down and potentially have some company in the evenings.
Having had a look around and mostly on the back of the Hostel close to both the train station and main lift I've looked with a serious eye at Bad Gastein. My main concern there would be about the lack of easier slopes in the immediate vicinity.
My first week skiing was in Mayrhofen and I wouldn't mind going back as I know the basic area / lift system so could spend more time getting practice in and less time worrying about finding my way around or going the wrong way.
Obviously at this time of year snowfall is an issue.. however should cannons make these resorts usable or am I best looking elsewhere? I'm under no illusion that it's going to be stunning so long as there's enough to get a couple days practice!!
Many thanks
Andy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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andytb, Welcome to Snowheads! 
Mayrhofen would be a good choice, as the resort will be open by then and has good snowmaking cover, plus Hintertux is close enough to provide guaranteed snow even in the worst conditions.
Alternatively, Kaprun/Zell am See is worth considering, as are any of the other glacier resorts. Almost all of them have some sort of hostel accommodation, or you can find cheap B&B if you look hard enough.
Bad Gastein averages 50-80cm at the top during December (i.e. 50 in the first week, 80 in the last), and 11-23 at the bottom, but in bad years it has been 5-35 and 0-15, so snow-making is essential, assuming the conditions allow it.
The key will be to ensure that you have enough easy terrain to keep you busy, with some intermediate stuff which you can progress onto if all goes well. Don't worry about finding you way around - the instructor can do that for a day or two, and after that you'll be familiar with most of the area.
Personally, I'd book everything as late as possible, and take advantage of last minute deals, as nowhere will be full before Christmas, plus you have the advantage of seeing before you book whether glacier access will be essential or not.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ousekjarr and Kersh, thank you for your quick replies. I'll try and get flights and the accom in Munich sorted soon, and see about making resort arrangements far closer to the time given your advice. Glad to know that the Hostel bar is a good bet, hopefully not too Austrian smokers early on in the season!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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andytb, despite what ousekjarr says I can't see Mayrhofen being open the first two weeks of December. Normal opening week-end would be around mid-December. If Zillertal is your thing then, yes, head there but aim straight for Hintertux. From Munich Airport you'll need 3 changes of train before arriving in Mayrhofen 3 hours later. From their the Post Bus will take you to Hintertux. Personally, I wouldn't bother changing resorts half way through as your options will be limited unless their is a stellar start to the season and places like Kitzbuhel decide to open early.
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I agree, Mayrhofen is a low village around 560mtrs and the top station is around 2250 or so. This is not a good height range for reliable snow that early in the season. However, the resort might be a good base if you travel to the Hintertux glacier which will be about a 30 min bus ride there and back.
If you are lucky, then the season might come early but even then, I think Mayrhofen will stick to their resort slope opening plan and as it is not reknown as an early season resort, best check when that is supposed to be.
If it were me, I would be looking at the glaciers as my backup plan. That means Solden, Hintertux, Stubai and Kaprun. All withing 2 hrs of Munich I would say..or there or thereabouts.
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Mayrhofen "officially" opened last year from 2.12.2007-6.4.2008 (Source), with the opening pulled forward to 9th October due to the excellent early conditions.
For this year, the Penkenbahn opens on 29th November - (Source).
And ferchrissakes, how many times do we need to point out that while Mayrhofen is at 560 metres, the first thing you do is take a gondola to 1800m, which is the lowest point in the ski area  . Yes, in exceptional years you can ski back to the outlying villages, but that's on a forest road rather than a piste, and very few people do it even if it is open. Don't worry about whether there will be snow at 560m - worry about whether there will be any at 1800 metres, and if not, only the glaciers will be open anywhere in the Alps.
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Opening dates are often changed depending on weather, I've seen resorts push back a Nov opening to Christmas.
So at Mayerhofen that would mean skiing between 1800 & 2500m when other glaciers offer twice that (e.g. Sölden & Hinetrtux 3250, Kaprun 3029, Stubai 3210).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DB, When did 3250 become twice 2500? 
And those are the top heights you have listed of course, you haven't given any indication of the lowest point of the skiing.
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DB, agreed, but the published opening dates are their best educated guess at when there will be snow, and from when they will have the staff to run the lifts, with the maintenance and upgrade programs completed. In November, they may not be able to open many lifts even with 2m of snow, because the seasonal lift staff are not available...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| DB, agreed, but the published opening dates are their best educated guess at when there will be snow, and from when they will have the staff to run the lifts, with the maintenance and upgrade programs completed. In November, they may not be able to open many lifts even with 2m of snow, because the seasonal lift staff are not available... |
Yes if there is a lot of snow the glaciers are generally better staffed so have more lifts open. I've been driving to the glaciers from here in Vienna for the past 8 years. Often going to the glacier with the best conditions / most number of lifts open - Mayrhofen has never made the shortlist.
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| DB wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
DB, When did 3250 become twice 2500?
And those are the top heights you have listed of course, you haven't given any indication of the lowest point of the skiing. |
2500-1800 = 700.
3250-1800 = 1450.
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OK, now I understand what you meant. Thanks.
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We've had this discussion before and IMO Mayrhofen can't compete with the glaciers for pre Xmas skiing. Rather than argue about it we could see what happens and the loser donates 100 Euro to Snowheads? What do you think? |
Well it will of course vary each year, but as a general rule, I agree you are much more likely to get decent skiing on the glaciers at that time of year.
And if trying to book something this far in advance for first week of December, I wouldn't dream of going anywhere but the glaciers.
But Mayrhofen is not so much lower that it will never be good at that time.
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You know it makes sense.
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alex_heney, I believe what he means is that 1800-2500 at Mayrhofen gives 700m of vertical, whereas the glaciers are ~700m higher, so you get 1400m of vertical... However, the Penken area goes from 1720 to 2590, so it's more like 870m.
Except that at Tux, it actually goes from 2100m at the Sommerbergalm to 3250m at Gefrorene Wand, so that's only 1150m.
And at Kaprun, it's from Langweid at 1978 to the top of the lift at 3000m, but you come back down to 2980m on the shuttle because the black run is never open, so that's only 1000m.
And at Stubai, it is 2300m at Mittelstation, to 3200 at Kl. Isidor, so that's only 900m
So "twice that" actually in this case means 32% more, or 14% more, or 3% more vertical respectively. And the highest possibility is 15km away on the same pass anyway 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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(  - spent so much time getting the figures that I missed the discussion )
Dragging this back to the original post, andytb is looking for his second ski trip after a week in Mayrhofen, so while the glaciers will undoubtedly offer better conditions on average at that time of the year, they're not exactly the best place for a relative beginner if there are other options available.
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Poster: A snowHead
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ousekjarr, How big an IF...???
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes the Pitztaler glacier could be added to the list ...
http://www.bergfex.com/pitztalergletscher/
but it normally doesn't have as many lifts open
http://www.bergfex.com/oesterreich/schneewerte/
After Christmas Mayrhofen is typically in full swing but not pre Christmas. Glaciers are typically flat, I learnt to ski as an absolute beginner at Kaprun and I've skied the short black run at the top. Hintertux is steeper so not the best for a second week skier. The percentage figures mean nothing, a resort with more lifts up to a higer elevation will almost certainly offer more for the skier pre X-mas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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andytb,
Here's the internet link for trains
http://www.oebb.at/
In the "Von" box (from) put in "Munchen" for "Munich". It looks like going to another glacier other than Hintertux / Mayrhofen will involve a lot of changes whereas Hintertux / Mayrhofen is well served. (e.g. Sölden takes ca 30-60 mins longer but if you miss the connection it can take 9+ hrs).
If there is plenty of snow around you could also consider Zell am See which has a good train connection.
http://www.bergfex.com/schmittenhoehe-zellamsee/
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Gosh, quite some debate about Mayrhofen! I was myself surprised about the lack of snow in the valley - however the week I was there had huge snowfalls on the mountains (late March) and it was possible to see the progression from snow to rain riding up on the Penkenbahn. Excellent conditions all in, but a quite different time of year
Given that snow is clearly a bigger issue than I thought it would be that puts Hintertux high up on the list then. The general terrain may not be such an issue with an instructor for the first few days because as you rightly pointed out ousekjarr they can also act as a guide for the first few days. A good balance might be in that case to keep an eye on conditions in Lanersbach and the slightly higher Rastkogel/Eggalm area which also has the regular and shorter skibus to Hintertux.
Just throwing another name out there - Obertauern while not being a glacier seems to come pretty well reviewed in snowfall terms and the transfer from the train station at Radstadt is only half an hour so long as you don't miss the postbuses at lunch time. How much would a taxi be for 20kms?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The ÖBB website is also available in English - http://www.oebb.at/en/index.jsp or choose English from the Sprache/Language box in the top bar, and it will find Munich on the search so you don't have to remember the German name instead (although that's a good habit to get into anyway...)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| andytb wrote: |
| Just throwing another name out there - Obertauern while not being a glacier seems to come pretty well reviewed in snowfall terms and the transfer from the train station at Radstadt is only half an hour so long as you don't miss the postbuses at lunch time. How much would a taxi be for 20kms? |
Obertauern is another good choice esp for a second week skier but it's more difficult to get to than Mayrhofen, Zell am See or Bad Gastein. Think you have to change at Salzburg and then bus / taxi from Radstadt. 20 kms in a taxi is likely to work put about ca 30-40 Euros each way. It is possible that the snow falls in a particular area so always worth having plenty of alternatives then following the snow at the last minute.
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How about Solden? Don't know if that is near a train station though, although Innsbruck is close enough to get a bus/taxi. Has glacier etc
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Thought I'd dig this one up to see how predictions compared with reality
According to Bergfex .....
St Anton has the most lifts running 50 out of a possible 85 with 95 cm snow.
Interms of snow Obergurgl is right up there with 246cm but only 4 of 24 lifts are running. (although after this weekend I expect more lifts will be running for this and the following resorts)
Mayrhofen has 6 of 49 lifts running and 90cm of snow.
Hintertux 15 from 21 lifts with 150cm snow.
Bas Gastein has 1 of 16 lifts running with 50cm of snow.
Obertauern 14 from 26 lifts and 110 cm snow.
http://www.bergfex.at/oesterreich/schneewerte/?sort=Name,ASC
http://www.bergfex.at/oesterreich/schneewerte/?sort=LifteOffen,DESC
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FAQ
