 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And it's incredibly difficult to put out the fire once lit!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
richmond,
" It is clearly a commercial operation"
Where does the profit go then? |
I didn't mean to imply by 'commercial' that it made a profit for distribution to someone or the other, but that its functions were pretty much those normally associated with a commercial organisation, namely the taking of your money in exchange for goods or services, with little if any input from you. It does provide other services not normally associated with commercial organisations, such as a chatroom (sadly not much use now) and a clubhouse (again, not a lot of use), and, critically, members can vote on all sorts things, but generally they don't.
I suppose that the fact that one pays a flat rate for a package of (some of) the Club's services distinguishes it from many commercial organisations, but there are plenty of clearly commercial organisations which operate like that (gyms, for example).
I'm not criticising the Club at all. I'm sure that most members (including me, so far) get what they want from it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
They've closed the Reps Report area - yes it's MO in there too now. Conditions may be better on the upper slopes but unless you are a paid-up SC member you'll never know about them. Why? What was the harm in registered users reading what the reps said?
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Ian, to deal with this initial point, Clubs exist to provide their members with benefits that don't exist elsewhere. It costs around £50 to join the Club. It costs over £150,000 per annum to run the repping service, as far as I can deduce from the accounts.
But you seek, free of charge, an obvious membership benefit?
The obvious solution is for snowHeads to develop its snow reportage, which is progressively happening, if you'd like free snow reports! Alternatively, there are the national snow report services from the various countries on the web, which are increasingly impartial.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
But you seek, free of charge, an obvious membership benefit
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Not at all. We were all offered it and now we are not. I don't have a problem with that. The SC can do what it likes. Not being a member (although I would have been if they had not abruptly closed the open forum) I have no right to seek benefits from the Club. I simply queried the reasons behind the changes if anyone better informed was able to tell us? Since the main menus of the site have not been altered to move Rep Reports & Historical Reports into the MO area, it seemed that this might possibly have been a hasty decision. Or am I reading too much into this 
We have had an interesting thread diversion on the club vs commercial aspects but not yet any feedback on why the most recent changes took place.
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Why are the reps snow reports any use?
Personally, I find them fun to check, but useful? If I'm in resort, then I'm in as good a position as the rep to judge the snow conditions. If I'm not, then checking Ceefax for the reps resort of an evening is just as useful as checking the SCGB website of a lunch time.
Discuss!!!
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Don't have Ceefax. Are they still on there ? If so, it makes less sense for them to have vanished from their own site, except as part of a commercial decision to retain a value for them and obtain income. If that's what is happening, it would have made sense to do it long ago.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kuwait_ian, ceefax pay form them don't they? That makes sense to me.
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Tim, yeah, but they then give them away for free.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I’m a little at a loss as to see any great commercial value in the historical snow data. It’s mildly interesting as a research tool but all national weather centers and most resorts keep this data in accessible form.
As for the reps reports, all they are is a convenient collection point for info that’s freely available.
Again all I see is SCGB poking a stick up its ar*e in an attempt to spite other people. Which marketing moron is advising them on these matters?
Do they really think that a protectionist attitude is going to win them members
-or-
Have they suddenly thought that by reducing the available information they can justify their existence as a unique source? I’m inclined to think that they’re trying to protect a rapidly diminishing set of USPs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque, some people like to hear information, some people like to see information and some people like to feel information
or so all my sales training says !!!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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And what does "sales" have to do with "information" 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ian, they learn how to keep it to themselves 
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Poster: A snowHead
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inflammatory moi? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Surely a better definition of what the SCGB is, is a mutual society? As the AA, and various building societies used to be?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As a SCGB member, I don't feel that non-members should have access to the reps snow-reports, that is after all (along with the six day weather forecast) something that I choose to pay for. Many other sites use a similar method, limited information available for free, full information at a price. My major gripe with MO day was that the council removed something that was a good resource for members, which had a lot to do with non-members contributions, this was universally unpopular with members and non-members alike who used that forum. The tone of that forum has changed remarkably since then, and not for the better IMHO.
However I also think that if you're not a member of the SCGB, then you don't really have a right to say how the SCGB should operate, it's up to us how we choose to make services available on the web-site, and if you want a say as well then I'm afraid that you have to cough up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque,
"Do they really think that a protectionist attitude is going to win them members "
 if it helps keep you and your attitude out, then its a good move.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I hope that tongue is in your cheek Tim.
Anyway, is not the question valid? I've no doubt that there are valuable resources within the SCGB that should be protected, I question the wisdom in removing public access to something that (on the face of it) has a limited fiscal value but a huge positive public relations value, something that puts a human face on the club for prospective members.
As a rep seems to be used as a important part of club marketing, denying access to them is facile, If we’ve no prior knowledge of the rep in a resort (via reports) is anyone going to go looking for him/her for more info on the club.
Simply from a marketing aspect the policy so far is flawed at best and from a professional viewpoint (though subjective without the info used in the decision making process), potentially life-threatening to the organisation.
I’m quite happy to call this policy moronic as also the instigators. Do you actually want new members?
Still thinking of joining, I could have a lot of fun . . . on the snow of course.
Attitude . . . moi? Of course, everyone has one, don't think yours is any better than mine do you?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Boardski, MO=members only
I donate to snowHeads because U and his antics amuse me
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As far as I can see the Club Snow Reports are still available to all, though the Reps' Reports are for Members only (which I thought was the situation before).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't see what the fuss is about - the Reps' reports only ever give a positive view which have to be read very carefully to get the true picture. You know if it hasn't snowed for 3 weeks then the pistes are going to be hard-packed. And of course you have to be looking at a resort where there is a rep 
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Boardski, I'm not sure myself. There are quite a few discounts available in various areas, which probably do cover the cost of the membership, I know that for the past two years, it has paid for itself with various discounts. Sure those discounts are probably available anyway, but it is far less hassle (and time and therefore money) to just flash the card to get it.
I've never skied with a skiclub rep, not sure that I will be anytime soon, I usually ski with the people that I'm on holiday with, or find someone else to ski with. May give it a go in the future though, it has been enthusiastically recommended to me on more than one occassion. I'm told that both Gerry and Mark are excellent reps to ski with. I've never been on a SCGB holiday, and don't have any plans to either.
The magazine (IMHO) reads like a cross between a brochure and an in-flight magazine (sorry to any contributors), but it whiles away a couple of hours in the evening once a month.
The forum is no longer a pleasant place to post in, any dissent seems to be jumped on immediately, and in quite an unpleasant manner. The rest of it seems quite puerile in nature.
So why am I still a member?
Mainly for the discounts I suppose, the extras available on-line are quite nice, but not worth it by themselves. Access to the six day forecast is quite useful when booking last minute holidays. I suppose that when I stop getting a discount that covers the cost then I'll stop being a member.
I do think though, that if you are not a member, you give up your right to have a say in how the club runs, and what it's policies should be. This doesn't mean that you can't criticise the club (as some members seem to think), it's just that it's limited to commentary rather than involvement. That's the choice that you have to make when you give up membership.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Masque
I think the SCGB was right to restrict access. You are entitled to your opposite opinion.
"Which marketing moron is advising them on these matters? "
The above quote from you is rather typical and, may I say, rather telling. That is a real person you have directed your rude comment against. That person may or may not have read it and they may or may not have been upset by it. Why don't you print that on a nice bit of paper and sent it to the SCGB, along with your details, and see what kind of a response you get back?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowball happy christmas yourself!
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You know it makes sense.
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Tim Brown, Consider it on the way, I will post it here at the same time.
Snowball, just tried, nogo, can you advise on your portal?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Go Masque, go !!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
"Which marketing moron is advising them on these matters? "
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Probably not the best phrase to use but the point is valid.
If the SCGB intend to attract new and retain existing members then restricting access seems to be an odd way of going about it. In the past I have recommended the snow reports and rep reports to many skier and boarders and some have even joined the SCGB because of this recommendation. As Masque says it has huge PR value but at little or no cost.
IMHO, and as someone involved in sales and marketing, the decision seems a little short sighted - as was MO day in Feb.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've got to echo Stuarth. I'm a ski club member and what they choose to give away for free is entirely up to them. Many web sites start off free, attract a following and then introduce a pay element e.g. Snow Forecasts.
They're trying to get away from the 'precious' image, some more than others but there you go. I think a lot of people see the word 'club' and think of a place they can wander down to and have their say. For practical purposes that's not the case for the vast majority so the 'club' is in effect a (benign) autocracy and run as such. I'm not 100% sure that's entirely a bad thing either. It's course is more or less whatever the president and here's the important bit, wielder of proxy votes, chooses.
So it's a benign autocracy run for the benefit of it's subscribers by it's employees. Those employees probably do quite well out of it but more from a lifestyle point of view than financial reward.
Brown and white went out 2 seasons ago ??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque, just the normal http://www.skiclub.co.uk. You should find snow reports in the list on the left.
You then get a sub-menu and Reps Reports say you must register as a member, but ordinary Club reports (which cover many more resorts) say you must register as a member OR (free) as a user.
I only checked les Arcs which, as I said, was the same on both.
Perhaps they sometimes edit it.
Unfortunately since then I asked the system to recognise me as a member when I log-on, so I can't (literally) see the site the way you do any more.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 24-12-04 18:26; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Please don't shout at me....but......do we really care? We are snowheads not scgb and this whole forum does appear to me rather unhealthy, which is why I don't drop in. The whole idea behind it appears to me to be somewhat negative. I've only come to take a peek because I was like many others really saddened to lose PG. I want to have a poll which asks do we want to close this forum? After all if people want to discuss scgb shouldn't that be done via scgb? If people are that interested in scgb, then the place to be is in scgb and changing/debating it from within, not comenting from a distance.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd back that.
It seems like certain people go slightly mad on this forum. All they want is a fight. In this case (as I said) over losing nothing of interest - non-members have still got SCGB snow reports.
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Masque, don't forget to include bit about a stick the their ****!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nick Zotov, that's a well-balanced pair of smilies!
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Lorraine Agass, feel free to start a poll, then
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FAQ
- and not just over Christmas.