 Poster: A snowHead
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This follows on from my previous post about choosing a new set of piste oriented all mountain skis.
I am an advanced level skier and although I am 6' I am just 65kg because I am a competitive cyclist. This means that even as a type 3 skier my DIN setting is just 5.5 (boot sole length 336mm). I've noticed that quite a few advanced/expert level bindings start around 4-6 which means they are not appropriate for me. This got me wondering whether advanced/expert oriented skis might also be too stiff for me. I am very fit, and am doing weight training through the winter but will my weight always preclude me from getting the best out of expert skis?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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westrg, I don't know what you are worrying about? 65kg's is not that light. My wife is 50kgs and skis on 3.5-4 DIN. Not all "expert" skis are stiff.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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westrg, what skis have you liked and disliked in the past. if you're skiing reasonably fast/well you'll probably be putting enough force through most skis to bend them. it is as much down to what feels good to you as anything else
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Because most advanced/expert skis seem to be shipped with bindings that are inappropriate for my DIN settings.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What are we talking about here.... skis or bindings..?
It is all about load, AFAICS.. so if your weight and skiing style makes DIN 5.5 a good settings for you..ie the ski comes off at the right time in the right circumstances, then go with it. You don't have to buy an expert/high DIN binding and might save some bucks.
As for skis...if you have the technique and can bend them to turn, then ok... weight is an issue in bending skis so you either can with the physique and technique you have, or you can't... I don't see it as much to worry about, just know what parametres work for you. If you are considered light for your height, then go down a size.
I do think that some brand's size setting does not suit everybody anyway..so you may just have to be discerning and knowledgeable about what is out there as reagrds to your stats. You can apply the same thoughts to your boots as well, but since advanced level is quite a non-defined term in itself....as much is in the ski biz, IMV..then there is probably enough leeway for you to fit in somewhere. Just bear in mind that when talking in generalities and averages you might have to position yourself differently, sometimes.
This is no different in practice to what everyone else has to do...one man's meat, another's posion type of thing, as most reviews start from a subjective POV....and you have to flesh them to make them more objective. IMO.
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| westrg wrote: |
| Because most advanced/expert skis seem to be shipped with bindings that are inappropriate for my DIN settings. |
that is probably because they want/need to you use a 'partners' product. I favour flat bed skis where you can mount your own choice
Any particular skis you thinking of...?
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westrg, The bindings, although shipped with the skis, are a separate item, so you should be able to order a different set with your purchase. Are you sure about 5.5...seems very low. I'm 55 kg, boot sole 299 - ski on 7.
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westrg,
I'm a bit heavier than you but shorter. For me stiff expert skis are a lot more work esp. at slow speeds. Skis that others describe as "noodles" work ok for me esp when offpiste. I tend to choose skis with a wood core and very little (if any) metal in the ski construction. It's not so much as you getting the best out of a pair of skis but getting the best ski for you. As others have said - best to test a few different models. Renting skis for a week but swaping them twice a day is possible.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ski, the shorter your BSL the higher your din will be, naturally. At least I think thats right 
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ski, my DIN setting of 5.5 is what I get with my values and a skier type of 3. Even going for 3+ only makes it 6.5. I think it is my combination of height, weight and big feet!
JT, I totally take the point about being careful to get the correct ski, however it is very hard to assess this based on the information that is out there either on the internet or in shops. I think I lie outside of the norms, as indicated by my DIN setting, and I don't think shop staff take this into account which is why I thought I would ask for some advice here. I'd love to be able to demo skis but this is not really practical and I would prefer to buy in the UK rather than in resort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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westrg,
TGR is pretty good and mine of info so have look there. Epic is good as well.
I think that if skis are termed stiff or whatever for their intended target then they will be more so for you.
These subjective ratings always fascinate me but you are going to have to do something to make them relate to what you think.
For example, the Stockli Stormrider XL was considered a hard ski to ski, if you read the blurb... but what size... ?? 85kgs on 174 and its dead easy, and it is the test shop that will likely put you there.
The 184 with the same stats is a completely different beast..and this must apply to others as well. If you consider yourself light... then just add the thinking that you will have to work them harder to get the same result.
I agree that more should buy at home but it is not that easy. Try to go on the EB test days or have a look at what the Chill factor does. I think kiwi1 knows about a test regime up there so you could PM him.
or... you have to buy cheap and at face value and knock them on if you are wrong.
If you want to know what all the stuff you read about really means as far as you are concerned you just have to get out there and try some.
To equalise your weight, I would lop an few inches off your height and go with those recommndations as a starter......say, a K2 recon in 174 and not the 181. You might want to consider skis around 174-180 and not above..unless out and out TT..which is another headache...!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmmm.... I am 6 ft and 70 kg so quite close to westrg, never considered the binding problem tho. I usually have them set on 6 or so. When I hire stiff "expert" skis (whatever that means) I usually go for a short length. I hardly ever hire anything over 170 these days, even for off-piste. There are some very wide skis out there so you don't need a lot of length.
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| westrg wrote: |
This follows on from my previous post about choosing a new set of piste oriented all mountain skis.
I am an advanced level skier and although I am 6' I am just 65kg because I am a competitive cyclist. This means that even as a type 3 skier my DIN setting is just 5.5 (boot sole length 336mm). I've noticed that quite a few advanced/expert level bindings start around 4-6 which means they are not appropriate for me. |
Why does that mean they are not appropriate for you?
While it is probably better if you are somewhere towards the middle of the range for the binding, if the binding meets the standards, then all values it can be set to will be correct.
OK, one which starts at 6 will not be right for you, but one which starts at 4 certainly will be OK.
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You know it makes sense.
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Most mass market bindings seem to have a 3-10 or 4-12 range. 6-14 or higher are usually at a premium so even if the "hostage" binding were in that range I can't imagine a retailer would mind swapping it out. FWIW I would generally try to avoid skis with hostage systems anyway but retailers & marketeers seem keen on it for obvious reasons. IIRC the big 2 in the UK no longer price skis only in their catalogue.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Why does that mean they are not appropriate for you?
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I was under the impression that you should have a DIN setting in the middle of the range for the binding as they do not work effectively at their limits.
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Poster: A snowHead
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westrg, Thats just a guide. If you ski a 5.5, any binding that starts at 4 or even 5 will be fine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It is, however, a good incentive to get them torque tested more often.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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westrg, a DIN setting is exactly that. any correctly serviced, certified binding will perform as described as "on the tin". So any setting within the binding's range will function correctly within the measurement system dynamics.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I ski at a din of 8 right now.. had no issues with my Rossi bindings (din 8-15).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree with most of the comments on the binding front and would recommend you go for ones with a DIN of 4-12 and these are quite common on advanced level skis on the market today.
A lot of advanced piste skis are very stiff but if you are looking towards the very popular all mountain catagory of skis then there are plenty of good skis that are not too stiff to ski but not like "noodles" and perform well in all conditions - Salomon Tornado (not the new Tornado Ti mind you as this is siffened with a layer of titanium), K2 Recon, Scott Aztec Pro, Atomic Blackeye etc.
I was formerly a competitive cyclist and used to weigh even less than you and still skied advanced level skis. Most people don't realise how strong you will be for your weight being a competition level cyclist. I am now 13 KG heavier than i used to be when riding and due to my legs having less stregnth still find the same level of ski to be just as stiff feeling as it used to be - if you know what i mean
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| IIRC the big 2 in the UK no longer price skis only in their catalogue. |
S&R do where the skis are not designed with an "integrated" binding.
So S&R have all the Scott Skis, a lot of the Volkl ones, some Salomon, some K2.
But EB do only seem to have prices for combinations, although I'm sure if you walked in to the shop they would do you ski only prices on the ones without integrated binding. Or would give you prices for different combinations.
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