Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Boris,
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I didn't even know there were such things as Winter Tyres
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and now you need vest and triangle as well
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boris, I think we just need to try to distinguish between what is legal requirement, what is "best", and what is practical in the circumstances you describe. In what I have gleaned from this thread, and previous ones these three are very different:
Legal: Other than in Finland the tyres that are legal in the UK are legal in Europe, so in Austria or Germany they can't fine you for having the wrong tyres. What they can do though is fine you for not making normal progress and causing holdups or accidents, also they can stop you driving on roads where summer tyres aren't a lot of cop. The situation with chains seems to be similar - if you haven't got them you can't go where they are needed.
Whats Best: Depends entirely on the type of roads you are going to drive on. For a drive across England, then down the motorway to the alps, then up 25 miles of potentially snowy road there is no best, as different parts of the journey are in entirely different conditions.
What's practical: I go along with you in general. I have made several trips to the alps using summer tyres and chains with no issues, but I needed two new tyres, so got my local dealer to get me some "winter" tyres. He got for a sensible price 4 Kumho KW17 tyres, they are marked M & S, and with a snowflake, and a mountain with a snowflake. They have lots of lateral sipes for grip in snow, they got me off a very muddy campsite last weekend, and they seem to perform OK on the road. Come spring I'll get 2 summer tyres and have a full set of those until the autumn again.
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saikee, as I've said above Michelin have three types of winter tyre, one in each of first three categories I've put tyres into. The relative strengths of the harder rubber type vs the softer rubber type is shown in the first table (to which I've now added my categories). For sure I would be choosing either a cat. 3 or 4 tyre based on the driving that I do and would be likely to do if I drove to the Alps. I don't do enough driving on snow and/or to need the softer rubber type or the studded type. Personally, I prefer to have winter tyres (of cat. 3) rather than all season tyres (of cat 4) for my car. My main concern though, was that people should not confuse tyres I put in cat 4 (Quatracs in second table) with those in cat 5 (those in the first table with the rather long braking distances) when they are both marked as M+S tyres, the difference being the snowflake/mountain symbol.
achilles in Norway, Finland and Sweden driving at 60mph on hard packed snow is the normal thing to do. Is Austria much different? I'd imagine people would be rather fed up at being stuck behind someone doing 30mph. The winter equivalent to caravan drivers .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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peura, snowproblem. I'll join the Parisians going to the French Alps.
PS, in France at least, there have been many times when I would have been hugely grateful to be travelling at over 30mph near resort. I think you live in a different world (full of exciting tyre catalogues) from me.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 14-10-08 14:28; edited 1 time in total
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achilles wrote: |
peura, snowproblem. I'll join the Parisians going to the French Alps. |
Just wear a stripped top and hang a few onions from your wing mirrors, nobody will know the difference.
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DB, quite.
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achilles no, most of my winter holidays are taken in Nordic countries. A "bit" (or even a lot) of snow and ice doesn't make any of them wish they had snow chains, nor does it make them the winter equivalent of caravan drivers. In fact, AFAIKT the car hire companies don't even list them as an option but it's a given you'll get winter tyres. I don't think many of the locals possess snow chains, certainly none of my friends there do.
Any thoughts on those who've had to drive through snow the whole way to the Alps? Could take a long time if you can only do half the speed of the locals.
My use for winter tyres currently is primarily in the Welsh mountains. Yes, I've even had to use snowchains here a couple of years ago. However, I have in mind that I may well want to drive to the Alps so I try to make sure than whatever I chose is not inconsistent with that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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peura,
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Any thoughts on those who've had to drive through snow the whole way to the Alps?
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Yep have done so several times on summer tyres at sensible speeds, the French are very good at clearing their roads. Only once has snowfall been serious enough to disrupt the journey and the Gendarmes were stacking the HGV's north of Lyon and convoys of cars led by snowploughs kept the traffic moving, even so only 2 hours was added to the entire journey and we were kept informed by Autoroute radio, so we knew the road after Chambery was clear! (In fact it hadn't snowed!)
Dover however was chaos and the Police were in the process of closing the roads as we drove through and just managed to board our ferry on time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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peura wrote: |
...........Any thoughts on those who've had to drive through snow the whole way to the Alps? Could take a long time if you can only do half the speed of the locals....... |
I am beginning to lose the will to live following this thread - so one last post in it. Very briefly, on the way out to the Alps - say as far as Moutiers, you will be extremely unlucky to need chains, since French road clearance is phenomenally good. If you do, then the locals will have a problem anyway (even if caused only by the Parisians and me ), and you may as well hole up in a hotel. Certainly, I would not be interested in driving it. Thereafter you can bet your life that traffic will be grinding very slowly up the hill. I see no point in responding further on this one. You are utterly convinced I should have snow tyres, I see them as wholly inappropriate for my circumstances. We are not going to convince each other.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, we could always discuss helmets instead
(For the record, I use winter tyres but I'm not a zealot - ultimately good driving skills and road manners will be as important).
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles wrote: |
peura wrote: |
...........Any thoughts on those who've had to drive through snow the whole way to the Alps? Could take a long time if you can only do half the speed of the locals....... |
I am beginning to lose the will to live following this thread - so one last post in it. Very briefly, on the way out to the Alps - say as far as Moutiers, you will be extremely unlucky to need chains, since French road clearance is phenomenally good. If you do, then the locals will have a problem anyway (even if caused only by the Parisians and me ), and you may as well hole up in a hotel. Certainly, I would not be interested in driving it. Thereafter you can bet your life that traffic will be grinding very slowly up the hill. I see no point in responding further on this one. You are utterly convinced I should have snow tyres, I see them as wholly inappropriate for my circumstances. We are not going to convince each other. |
Nicre one.
Make a ridiculous unjustifiable assertion, and then say you won't respond any more.
I would be amazed if you can find a single post by anybody which fits what you say abouy "you" (not that you give any indication of who "you" might be).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Megamum, don't forget, headlamp beam deflectors and GB sticker, V50 (logbook/proof of ownership) Insurance certificate, the list get's longer every year
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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peura wrote: |
achilles wrote: |
You are utterly convinced I should have snow tyres, I see them as wholly inappropriate for my circumstances. We are not going to convince each other. |
Not really . I'm just utterly convinced that I would want to have winter tyres if I was doing what you are. I really can't see any downsides to using properly selected winter tyres. I'm only trying to provide information to help with this selection, based on what I've found out. |
Actually on second thoughts I will sharpen this slightly. I'm convinced that properly selected winter tyres are correct for me, here in this country.
I also can't help comparing at the response of the Austrian authorities to their equivalent of the M11 problems we had a few years ago with ours following said M11 problems. Then I read about accidents on black ice here and from comparing how my cars felt on snow and ice before I tried winter tyres with afterwards wonder whether or not winter tyres would have made a difference.
The choice is yours though.
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andy,Spade is in the rucksack along with the tranceiver and other offpiste gear, the screwdriver too. Don't really like tea though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dypcdiver wrote: |
andy,Spade is in the rucksack along with the tranceiver and other offpiste gear, the screwdriver too. Don't really like tea though. |
I've actually driven through a valley on a small Austrian country road after a massive dump of snow. Most roads around it were closed because of avalanche risk. It was still snowing, I looked up saw the massive overhangs of snow and switched my transciever on. Only got so far until getting stuck and had to dig the car's front wheels out with my spade.
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I must admit I somewhat worry having to drive on snow. The worst I ever drove on was, believe it or not, in the UK. I was collecting my two young kids from their day care nursery about 6pm at night, and it started to dump it down as I left work. I had 3 miles to the nursery and then about 10 mins whilst I collected them - the nursery was out in the sticks. I had to drive home in the pitch dark - the only car on the road it seemed down a country lane for about 3 miles before I hit a road with more cars on it where things were clearer. I made all the fresh tracks in the snow and was amazed at how difficult it was to see the edge of the road, and the ditch!! The lights were hopeless as they reflected off the falling snow, also I just had standard tyres on at the time as it was before I started skiing - I've rarely been so glad to get to a busy road, esp. as I had the two small children in their seats in the car with me to worry about too.
Has anyone got any tips if I actually have to drive over any quantity of snow. I progressed OK in the above scenario, but it was rather concerning - is there anything that I could have/should have been doing that I may not have been. I've done skid pans etc. with the IAM, but the snow wasn't immediately slippery from what I could see.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is a Range Rover with standard fit Mud & Snow Tyres, trying to drive on wet grass/mud. Standard All Seasons are useless, even if they do have an M&S rating, might as well be Marks & Spencer.
http://uk.youtube.com/v/3ShJZnH3flQ
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spyderman, I don't think the driver had the right button's pressed!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing, Must be an ML driver on a test drive.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I wish I still had my old car. A Peugeot 306 with standard summer tyres and front wheel drive. 3 times I've been in really slippery conditions in it and each time it did brilliantly well. One was when there was freezing rain and my road (a steep hill) was covered in ice. I watched tens of cars trying to get up the road and giving up before I foolishly tried myself. No problems at all. Second time I was driving from Liverpool to Leeds and it started snowing. By the time I was going over the Pennines there was 6+ inches. The motorway had completely emptied by that time so I tried an emergency stop and couldn't really tell the difference from a dry road. Tried some cornering and there was a bit of oversteer but nothing hairy. I guess fresh snow is actually quite sticky. Third time was coming out of Glastonbury where I passed a 4X4 stuck in the mud on a hill.
Of course if I was intentionally driving in these sort of conditions I'd get some winter tyres or chains or both. I certainly wouldn't drive up a winding mountain pass in snow without some.
Then some idiot drove into the side of me and totalled it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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olster wrote: |
Then some idiot drove into the side of me and totalled it. |
Which rather neatly points out that no matter what steps you take to make the right choices for your car & driving situation there's always someone else on the road that hasn't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FenlandSkier wrote: |
olster wrote: |
Then some idiot drove into the side of me and totalled it. |
Which rather neatly points out that no matter what steps you take to make the right choices for your car & driving situation there's always someone else on the road that hasn't. |
Hopefully there will be less of them in Austria though as the police now have the powers to stop them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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DB, well, we know there's one less dangerous driver.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boris, that's good timing. Just maybe it might focus their minds . but on the other hand...
As to the tyres, any of those near the top of DB's list should be good. In fact some seem almost as good, as least on snow but maybe not on ice, as some of the less good winter tyres they we can get in this country.
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landbeach, brilliant. Simply brilliant.
PS welcome to
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achilles wrote: |
achilles wrote: |
Have sent the following to the AA:
On your site, under Motoring Advice, 'Chains and Winter Tyres Requirements in the main winter resorts' you advise winter tyres are not mandatory in the EU, except in Finland. A friend advises that a large sign requires winter tyres to be fitted if you want to drive on the autoroutes around Aosta between October 15 and April 15. I suggest you check your web page advice, and amend it if my friend's advice is correct.
I'll post the outcome, if any, here. |
Have received the following:
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Your email has been logged against the above Service Request Number.
I have forwarded your email to the relevant department, we will contact you directly one I have received a reply.
If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind regards, |
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Latest:
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Thank you for your comments we do appreciate feedback.
The information on our website is based on a survey of all appropriate motoring clubs across Europe asking them specifically to confirm the requirements for visitors as compared to residents.
We will check again and update the advice on our site if necessary |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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