 Poster: A snowHead
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T Bar, what could be more convenient than a flight to Zurich and a nice comfy train ride to St Anton direct from the airport? Kitzbuhel etc only 80 mins from Munich, motorway nearly all the way. It simply isn't that easy to Val D'Isere, 3 Valleys, Les Arcs et al.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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... and Innsbruck beats all.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| T Bar, what could be more convenient than a flight to Zurich and a nice comfy train ride to St Anton direct from the airport? Kitzbuhel etc only 80 mins from Munich, motorway nearly all the way. It simply isn't that easy to Val D'Isere, 3 Valleys, Les Arcs et al. |
Flight to Zurich & nice comfy train ride to Engelberg, Andermatt or Davos? 
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Austria, or at least some Austrian resorts, seems to have the edge if "oompah" and "lively" apres ski and dancing on a table in your ski boots is what's wanted. France, or at least some French resorts, have the huge convenient blocks, mega-miles of inter-connected pistes etc. But those are the places where all the Brits go. Austrian resorts populated by loads of Brits are different from French ones populated by loads of Brits. And by definition those are the ones most people will be familiar with. But if you tried to step back from the stereotypes, and looked at a small Austrian resort with a big majority of Austrian visitors, compared to a small French resort with a big majority of French visitors, I wonder what the differences would be? The differences between different kinds of French resort, or different kinds of Austrian resort, must be a lot greater than any meaningful differences between Austria and France "as a destination".
For some reason the people who are championing Austria in this discussion seem much more eager to do so than the people who vote with their feet and go to France.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
T Bar, what could be more convenient than a flight to Zurich and a nice comfy train ride to St Anton direct from the airport? Kitzbuhel etc only 80 mins from Munich, motorway nearly all the way. It simply isn't that easy to Val D'Isere, 3 Valleys, Les Arcs et al.
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Yeah but that is comparing relatively convenient Austrian resorts with inconvenient French ones.
Haute Savoie resorts are closer to Geneva and easier to get to than the Austrian resorts are from Munich.
Ischgl from Munich or Zurich is just as difficult as Val d'Isere from Lyon.
pam w, I agree that resorts vary at least as much within as between countries. Although there are the odd Austrian purpose built resorts like Obertauern and Zauchensee I don't think they manage to do ugly as well as the worst French monstrosities. There again they don't do the same degree of high mileage piste motorways as France.
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I have only been to France so I can't really start judging Austria as a country to ski in.
However the benefits of French ski resorts are:
Good food - I'm looking foward to my fondues, tartiflettes and raclettes. Not to mention the Italian pasta dishes such as Carbonara and pizza baked in a wood burning oven with an egg on top of the pizza.
They speak French, I speak a basic degree of French and enjoy trying to progress my linguistic skills. I don't speak the Germans langauge and don't ever intend to.
I find the French I've met in ski resorts rather friendly and I like a lot of their positive happy attitude that I have genreally come across.
High mountains with fantastic scenery and a good snow record that you cannot deny above 1800m.
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stupid question
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I don't speak the Germans langauge and don't ever intend to.
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 good to see an open-minded approach amongst the younger generation. Presumably Christopher is not planning on a career in the diplomatic service (or elsewhere in the senior civil service, journalism, export-oriented business, education, etc where a broad interest in other peoples and their languages would be considered a positive attribute and more important than spelling)
Elizabeth B, what do you mean, I'm right? (with rolling eyes). I realise you are being ironic, but still not sure what your point is.
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pam w, I was meaning that most people who vote with their feet, do so because that's what they have always done, rather than they do that becuse they've tried all the options and decided they like France best. I wonder how many of those that vote with their feet have been to Austria recently?
There are a lot of Frenchcentric people on the forum, who appear to have no experience of other countries, who believe that there is no skiing beyond the border. People here are just trying to redress the balance, and argue that there is good skiing elsewhere.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I agree - but when you said "you're right. The French mega-resorts are the best place for the English to go" I genuinely had no idea what you were saying, as that proposition was not at all what I was saying. I expressed no opinion one way or the other where people "should" go, just that they were comparing apples and pears. David Murdoch is right, it's a daft question. I never queue or lifts, personally!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I never queue or lifts, personally! |
Neither do I (when in Rome)
Chocolate milk shake is better than strawberry milk shake though.
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There's only one right answer or one "best" country/resort/whatever if everyone wants the same from their skiing. Clearly not everyone does want the same thing from their skiing.
Elizabeth B, there might be a lot of people here who ski predominatly in France, and offer advice based on that experience, but it seems to me that there is far more "anti-Frenchcentric" sentiment expressed on snowHeads than there is about any other country. Seems a bit unnecessary to me.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, I quoted a small part of what you had written, so that you would know it was that bit I was responding to, not the rest of your post. As you pointed out earlier, I was being ironic (although you seem to have conveniently ignored the winking smilie, that implies I'm joking). I was not referring to what I thought your personal preference was, just that some people who vote with their feet for France (as you put it) would probably not have even opened this thread, as it mentions Austria in the title.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| stupid question |
If you already know what you like maybe. It has been discussed before and some people come over all partisan - a bit like the Euro v USA debate.
However, neophytes often value a bit of guidance. Books like 'We Learnt to Ski' went into a lot of detail on how to choose a resort. Times have moved on since then as they always do.
So maybe the question is interesting to some. I am a resort X man myself.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Latchigo, no, I disagree. I think it's a silly - or stupid - question. As in there isn't going to be a definitive answer. So why ask?
It's a little like bus or train, which is better? Clearly one is better if there isn't a station...
And it's badly framed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Austria is like a down market Switzerland with the exceptions of Arlberg & Ischgl which are good enough to be swiss.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Latchigo, no, I disagree. I think it's a silly - or stupid - question. As in there isn't going to be a definitive answer. So why ask?
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There is no definitive answer but people may still wish to see the debate with points for and against.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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dk100, for me YES, as a overall holiday experience. However, France probably has the best skiing.
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JT,
What about the golf then?
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Austria wins everytime!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
there is far more "anti-Frenchcentric" sentiment expressed on snowHeads than there is about any other country. Seems a bit unnecessary to me.
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I'd agree with that. I can't think why fans of Austria become defensive and "anti France". It's a bit like a certain kind of Scot or Welshman who can't be "patriotic" without being "anti English". (And I say that as a Celt who certainly used to root for any team playing rugby against England, but is now a reformed character). I can't, off the top of my head, recall any posts using a few clichés to dismiss all Austrian resorts though that is routinely done for "skiing in France".
I agree with Elizabeth B that some people who ski in France think it's "best" without having experienced other countries. But I also think there is a huge ignorance amongst people who equate skiing in France with "high rise soulless ski factories". People who have just visited a handful of resorts in the Alps will always feel free, of course, to make sweeping generalisations as a result. I agree that talking about the pros and cons of different resorts is extremely valuable, not just to newcomers but to everyone else who hasn't yet visited them all. It may even be useful to talk about the pros and cons of big resorts versus small ones, or high resorts versus low ones. But talking in terms of the pros and cons of one country versus another just isn't very illuminating. I didn't visit this thread for some time, because of this, but having weakened and looked at it, I then couldn't resist.
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dk100, Love Austria, tried Italy and France, but went back to Austria, just can't beat their standard of food / hotels, their 3*** hotels would be 4 anywhere else, and no one does apre like Austria . We had poor snow levels once in 14 years, when every other resort in Europe had the same conditions, but we have found that Austria usually gets huge dumps late in the season, so lovely and warm to sit out, but tons of the white stuff..... we still have 3 airlines for DIY in the North West, so long may it continue ! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Elizabeth B, there might be a lot of people here who ski predominatly in France, and offer advice based on that experience, but it seems to me that there is far more "anti-Frenchcentric" sentiment expressed on snowHeads than there is about any other country. Seems a bit unnecessary to me. |
If someone expresses a strong opinion for something, then others will express an equally strong opinion against. So if what you say is the case, then it's likely that the cause is lots of "pro-Frenchcentric" opinion out there. I suspect that the reason for that is down to a couple of factors.
1) We seem to have a small number of people who own properties in France, who can't see beyond their own resort (Rob, this is not aimed in any way at you) even when completely unsuitable.
2) People will ask about which is the best Austrian resort, and invairably several people will say 3 valleys or La Ros 
I've skied in Austria, France, Italy and Switzerland, and worked in ski resorts in Austria, Italy and Switzerland, so feel that I can appreciate the pros and cons of each country (although I agree with Pam regarding it being better to compare resorts or areas rather than countries). However this isn't obvious if I make a post in reply to a new poster, alongside someone who has only skied one week in one resort. There are people on here with far more experience than I, but often they get shouted down - and it's usually by people pimping France!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| 2) People will ask about which is the best Austrian resort, and invairably several people will say 3 valleys or La Ros |
That's not my impression of the majority of posts, with the obvious exception of the over-zealous pimping of La Rosiere which is not typical of resort recommendations (even from those who do own property). If a large number of people have skied in the French mega-stations then it seems obvious to me that there will be a lot of comments based on personal experience of those resorts. That's not to say that the French mega-stations are the best choice for everyone who asks about resort choices; it is just a reflection of how many visitors France gets. What I don't understand is why a (perfectly reasonable) recommendation for a less well visited (by Brits) resort in, say, Austria is frequently accompanied by a snide comment dissing French resorts.
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I have skied in Austria, Italy and France and enjoyed every resort (apart from the first - Les Orres, France - terrible beginners experience there!). Best memories are of Les Arcs, France for skiing (but ugly buildings), Zillertal, Austria for food and Courmayeur, Italy for apres ski.
However, we now seem to go to France each time. The main reasons are 1. Language (we both speak french and DS is learning french), 2. good for ski in /ski out in many resorts, and 3. most importantly it has the direct Eurostar service. Wouldn't it be great if there were better train services to Austria, Switzerland and Italy?
We have not yet done self drive but if we did I assume the french resorts have the shortest driving time? Andy - you said 5 hrs drive to Switzerland, Austria..surely this can't be right?
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar,
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over-zealous pimping of La Rosiere which is not typical of resort recommendations
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Yes, but quite often that's done jokily - though I guess a newish poster wouldn't necessarily realise that.
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What I don't understand is why a (perfectly reasonable) recommendation for a less well visited (by Brits) resort in, say, Austria is frequently accompanied by a snide comment dissing French resorts.
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Me neither.  There are some places in France I don't particularly like, but it seems mad to diss a whole country, particularly one which offers such infinite variety. I know that if someone told me that I had to choose one country for all future holidays, summer and winter, I would choose France, because there would never be a risk of getting bored with it. Maybe if I knew Austria a little better and spoke German a lot better (admittedly, fluent French helps me to enjoy life there to the full) I would feel the same way about Austria, but somehow doubt it - even though, generalizing somewhat, the classical music scene in Austria is superior!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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snowymum, you need to look at andy's location to see his starting point!
Swiss resorts can be reached as quickly (if not quicker) than most French resorts. eg via michelin gives the travelling time from calais to moutiers as 8h 27 mins, whereas Interlaken is 8h 11 mins, and Lausanne 7h 25. Of course, you then need to get to resort, but I think these times are about the same from the points I've given.
Austria tends to be a bit further, St Anton is 9h 25 (to resort), Salzburg 10 hrs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
rob@rar,
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over-zealous pimping of La Rosiere which is not typical of resort recommendations
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Yes, but quite often that's done jokily - though I guess a newish poster wouldn't necessarily realise that.
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It is done mostly in a jokey way now, but for a long time it was a sustained spam attack (which I think led to the fairly constant level of wee-wee taking that goes on now).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I like Austria so much that I've just enrolled on an Open University German language course.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, which does get on the boobies of any genuine fans.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Fr0sty the Sn0wman wrote: |
| rob@rar, which does get on the boobies of any genuine fans. |
Indeed, most unfortunate. Also confusing for any newbies to the forum who must wonder why the resort gets such a weird response from so many here.
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| Quote: |
Also confusing for any newbies to the forum who must wonder why the resort gets such a weird response from so many here.
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how about just deciding that "jokes" about La Rosiere just aren't remotely funny any more? That would be a step forward.
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I've skied in France and in Austria. IMV, France resorts have better connections for "piste bashers" - great if you can afford only one trip per year, arew not in freat shape etc. In Austrian resorts, links are somehow more difficult. Also, with the exception of St Anton and Ishgl, Austrian resorts seem to be "flatter". Austria has its advantages (such as better hotels for cheaper prices), but, the trip i booked for next year (might turn into my only one, due to work) is for Les Arcs in March.
Been there twice before, and after having skied only in Austria for the last two years, I can't wait to get back!
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dk100,
Never played golf in Austria.
I think the Swiss do things better all round.... but the Austrians do apre very well.
Depends what you go for........
drinking lots..??? well, I can do that at home
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowymum wrote: |
We have not yet done self drive but if we did I assume the french resorts have the shortest driving time? Andy - you said 5 hrs drive to Switzerland, Austria..surely this can't be right? |
There isn't really much in it.
Calais - Innsbruck is 1068 KM, 10 Hours 3m
Calais - BSM is 933, 8 Hrs 34m
Calais - Verbier 876, 8Hrs 36m
(All according to ViaMichelin).
So yes, Austria is a little longer, but not enough to really be significant.
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JT,
Give it a go. They have some superb courses. Best I have played anywhere.
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FAQ
