 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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VolklAttivaS5, it was explained to me by a boarding instructor who mainly instructed on the plastic stuff that things happen slower on plastic compared to snow and that to make the turns you had to exagerate the technique, i.e. get more weight forward to get through the turn, rise up and down out of the turn to get the front edge pressure etc. On snow if you set the edge in the snow it will will turn nicely, and plastic it will not turn quite as easy. This is all with respect to teaching beginners btw. This confused me at first because I was looking at McNab videos which was all about pressure on the edges with equal weight distribution rather than 'getting weight on the front foot'
For the record I have only had two hours on plastic so i do not know if the above is true or not. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, you can kick the back foot out on plastic to finish the turn quicker, maybe that's what he meant or maybe (like you say) that's what a lot of people do after coming from a dry slope 
tbh from what you've said about the lesson with him it sounds like he doesn't know his arse from his elbow
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| snobunni wrote: |
VolklAttivaS5, yep got my own helmet so was intending to take it, also have some nice Dianesse snow sports knee pads that i use for skating so thought those might be a good idea to have on, as well as the wrist gaurds . . . i'm going to look like a power ranger but i dont care if it prevents the hurts
Re Snoworks when i was looking at the Chile trip i had it down between 2 companies and i must admit i made my decision based upon the instructional element of the Snoworks trip, i think i was just unlucky in that i wanted a technical course and the majority of the group just wanted to ski. The only other 'course' i've done is the Top of the World course with Inghams in Panorama, BC, which was great fun i was in a group. Other than that i usually have a 2hr private lesson every other day when i go away. I havent skied in Europe for years so not sure if maybe my expectations were a little high having only had Canadians teach me in the past, theirs being a service nation? |
Sorry missed your reply to my post earlier.
Yes, very sensible about the wrist guards-wish I had known more about how useful they are before I went boarding! 
Re Snoworks-I am amazed that it wasn't a "technical" course i.e one that provided instruction. I have always thought it was instruction included like on all their other trips I must admit, but I could be completely wrong in assuming that. Must be something to do with that email you got before you went.
Not heard of Top of the World before. Sounds to me that the guys you've had teach you before have been in the CSIA system (Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance) rather than BASI which is what you'll find mostly in British Ski Schools in France and the rest of Europe although they do have some CSIA and NZSIA (New Zealand system) ski teachers within some of the British run ski schools. Some ski schools only have BASI throughout though.
Either way they are both very similar although I have heard that the Canadian way is very client enjoyment focused but at the same time I've always enjoyed the courses I've been on with regards to enjoyment in that respect where the instructors have been BASI. I will have to try a Canadian in Fernie next season though to see if there is a difference between CSIA and BASI instructors. Iteresting to me that because it will help me with my own development to sample different systems.
I obviously don't know the circumstances with your trip, but either way, BASI or CSIA, it shouldn't have made that much of a difference enjoyment wise.
Anyway, back to boarding!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rayscoops, yeah thanks, what you have said is true though about it all being much slower and having to exaggerate the movements more on a dry slope to get the same outcome on "snow".
Swirly, yes true. Perhaps people have been going to him from dry and saying, "but I've been using my back foot to finish the turn" and that's where he's got it from.
How very confusing. Anyway, glad that lesson was negligible due to the blah blah on the other thread and it was all sorted the next night! Halleflippinlujah!
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I think it's a bit different learning to board if you have ski'd for years as you will know what the real snow is like. BUT, the falling leaf technique is not a good way to learn. How many boarders ride like that 80% of the time... quite a lot and they are normally the unsafe ones and hence why they are always on their bum !
My point for newbies is that a poor lesson inside the freezer may actually stop them going to the mountains at all !!
One thing we all agree on is the beauty of the mountains. Newbies may think that is is damp and cold and thumping music and scratchy snowboarters and 10 second runs.
Nope, the mountains are the place to learn...
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snobunni, Have you let snoworks know what you were unhappy with. You never know they might be willing to offer you something to get your confidence back.
Don't expect your first 3 days on the board to be tumble free but IME you need to push through to get to the steeper part of the learning curve.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Libertine,
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the falling leaf technique is not a good way to learn. How many boarders ride like that 80% of the time... quite a lot and they are normally the unsafe ones and hence why they are always on their bum !
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Do they?! I will have to have a look when I go to Tignes in December. I must admit last time I skied in a resort (Val D'Isere last April) I can't remember seeing any boarders using that technique to get down a piste. Then again, being a skier at the time with no interest in boarding or boarders (which has since changed obviously now I've decided to learn for myself) I probably wasn't paying attention to how they were boarding. I will have a look to see if it is 80% and if it is I find that amazing because they are never changing edge. How odd.
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My point for newbies is that a poor lesson inside the freezer may actually stop them going to the mountains at all !!
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Agreed, if they were to get a poor instructor in a dome then they could think boarding/skiing isn't for them when it is actually and end up missing out on all the fun of skiing/boarding in the mountains, just that they needed a more productive teacher, although that can happen if they go straight to a resort and learn as well mind you, having a rubbish teacher and them having a rotten first day's lesson, making them think they've just wasted a wad of cash going to a resort for a week. The teacher is everything (plus attitude of the student).
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One thing we all agree on is the beauty of the mountains. Newbies may think that is is damp and cold and thumping music and scratchy snowboarters and 10 second runs.
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Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree with that. Unless they are kids of course, that's different, but I would seriously, seriously hope that any adult would have enough common sense to know that a mountain range like say the Alps would be a significantly different environment to a Snowdome, with runs longer than 10 seconds long, particularly with the internet being freely available to most people these days and the wealth of information on there about skiing/boarding/resorts/booking ski holidays/review websites/youtube/Snowheads etc etc. I mean, c'mon! 
Perhaps that's just me though.
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fatbob, yes i have spoken to them, i'm waiting for their response now, which is why i've not gone into too much detail here. Like i said earlier, i think i was just unlucky as they have such an excellent reputation, unfortunately i was unlucky on my £4k once in a lifetime trip.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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snobunni, sorry to hear it didn't go well for you. Were you expecting a lot of formal tuition (typical ski school lessons) during the trip?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, not ski school style necessarily, but i did expect them to deliver what their webiste said and what i discussed with Phil before i booked, the warning sign was in the email received just before departure but its too late to change your mind 7 days before departure and there were no definates there. Unfortunatley i was looking for something different to the majority of clients on the trip and so lost out. That said the trip took us to some amazing places and i there was some amazing skiing.
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| Libertine wrote: |
I think it's a bit different learning to board if you have ski'd for years as you will know what the real snow is like. BUT, the falling leaf technique is not a good way to learn…. How many boarders ride like that 80% of the time... quite a lot and they are normally the unsafe ones and hence why they are always on their bum ! My point for newbies is that a poor lesson inside the freezer may actually stop them going to the mountains at all !!
…..One thing we all agree on is the beauty of the mountains. Newbies may think that is is damp and cold and thumping music and scratchy snowboarters and 10 second runs….. |
I understand what you're saying about a poor lesson being more hinderance than help in a fridge, but regarding the falling leaf, it's all about learning to control your board, just like snowploughing is all about controlling a set of skis. You HAVE to start somewhere. You can’t go straight into linking turns without getting used to the board, simple as. Some people will learn quicker than others but the fact is you need to learn these basic techniques to progress.
I went on my first holiday without any prior tuition, thought it would be easy and ended up hurting myself trying to link turns. Had a lesson that morning and learnt the falling leaf and I started to progress. I’d hazard a guess that’s applicable to how 95% of boarders progressed.
Okay, I rarely go down a slope ‘barn dooring’ it but I WILL use a controlled falling leaf at some point through the day, say waiting for someone to get out of the way downslope etc (that’s just an example). If people want to do this for the majority of their time then so be it – they’re wasting time when the could be razzing about doing linked turns, but it’s their choice and if they’re happy, then so be it. Maybe they’re all still at novice stage? I have nothing against noobs and I don’t think we should be hard on novices who practise elementary techniques. Let’s not forget that there are a lot of inexperienced skiers out there too who are just as much of a potential danger. Novices, whatever their weapon of choice, should be egged on, encouraged but never rushed past the basics that will undoubtedly make them better skiers and boarders…
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You know it makes sense.
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Specialman, falling leaf isn't like a snowplough though. The problem is that it's taught like it is. The problem isn't with learners it's with the teaching process and (as with everything) people trying things way too hard for them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I do not think too many people buzz around the mountain doing the 'falling leaf' thing - perhaps only people in their first week of boarding, and even then it is more a 'linked garland', but toe and heel edge falling leaf demonstates all the fundamental basics for controlling a board in most circumstances, (except on the flat) and should be mastered before linking turns in my view.
i have been known to do the 'dying fly' though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Swirly, what's the snowplough thingy for? Did a session a dry slope about 20 years ago so can't remember much?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snobunni wrote: |
| rob@rar, not ski school style necessarily, but i did expect them to deliver what their webiste said and what i discussed with Phil before i booked, the warning sign was in the email received just before departure but its too late to change your mind 7 days before departure and there were no definates there. Unfortunatley i was looking for something different to the majority of clients on the trip and so lost out. That said the trip took us to some amazing places and i there was some amazing skiing. |
OK, hope you have a positive discussion with Phil to discuss your disappointment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Specialman, basically it's the first type of turn you learn on skis, there's no equivalent on a snowboard.
If I was teaching someone (which I won't be doing any time soon) I think the time would be better spent teaching them to move from edge to fall line and back to edge on both sides and then put them together on a flat slope. Once this is achieved and they're doing it on slightly steeper slopes falling leaf could be introduced at the same time as carving as the get out of jail card it is.
I can't remember when I was taught to sideslip on skis but I'm pretty sure it was after learning parallel turns, falling leaf should be at roughly the same time for a learner boarder.
Anyway all this is just my opinion, I'm unlikely to change the current teaching pattern by myself, and we're quite a way off topic. It may be time for a separate thread.
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rob@rar, i'm sure i will
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Swirly, surely not a techie BZK type thread, we will all end up argueing like the skiers and the boarding instructors will take their boards home
edit - do we have any instructors?
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| rayscoops wrote: |
Swirly, surely not a techie BZK type thread, we will all end up argueing like the skiers and the boarding instructors will take their boards home
edit - do we have any instructors? |
Instead of "Bend Zee Knees" it could be called "get off your butts in the middle of the piste".
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Swirly, ah, understand now. I think you're right - we've gone off on a tangent and the OP is most probably thinking: "What have I started?..." 
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Specialman, nah i'm fine, merrily reading away about terms and techniques i dont yet understand . . . maybe it will all become clear next week when i give it a try
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snobunni, glad we're not puttting you off. You'll love it
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rayscoops,
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edit - do we have any instructors?
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I don't know any boarding instructor Snowheads only ski ones.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Specialman, lol i hope so, the husband has just converted to it so it will be nice to progress together
I'll report back next week once i've done the deed . . . i'll probabaly have masses of questions to start a new debate with 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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do we have any instructors?
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AFAIK no. God help anyone trying to learn from our witterings!
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Swirly, err should i give up now then lol
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You know it makes sense.
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snobunni, ha no generally everyone seems to know what they're talking about and at least disagreements are fairly civil
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Swirly, only needing one edge at a time helps avoid heated debates
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Poster: A snowHead
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snobunni, good if you and your husband can board together in the future. Breaking my wrist hasn't put me off boarding I'm looking forward to trying it on real snow anyway.
Did your husband go with you to Chile by the way or did you go on your own? Was there any other newbies on the trip or had they been the year before and stuff?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Swirly, I must admit I did enjoy learning "falling leaf" and glad I did it before learning how to link turns (we're talking the proper session I had at the dome now not all the other anomalies!) I can't really see how you can go from side slips on toe edge and heel edge to making turns straight away without having that in the middle to learn how the board works/weighting it works going from one direction to the other.
It definitely hadn't occurred to me that a lot of boarders ride like that in resorts or that it was a method of riding the board.
I'd have thought it doesn't scruff up any more snow that turning normally doesn't already? I expect side slipping down on the heel edge makes big ruts in the snow though literally like a pisten bully! I just thought I'd use falling leaf on a board like falling leaf on skis-i.e if I'm in a narrowish spot where perhaps getting a full turn in isn't possible and I want to get down safely.
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VolklAttivaS5, i think the point is that when you first get on a board you can either
stick on the bunny slopes and spend all day trying to link turns with all the thrills and spills and falls associated therewith - but you will not be buzzing around with your mates
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you can quickly get to the stage of changing from heelside regular to heelside goofy and really pick up a good lick of speed without the risk of falling and see a bit more of the mountain and even keep up with your mates, and spend the last hour having a go at linking turns
the first example is the best way of learning, the second example is how I did it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VolklAttivaS5, i went to chile on my own, he's not really that into skiing and it would have been beyond him really. There were several people that had done the trip before and i think there was only me and one other person that hadnt had anything to do with Snoworks before, everyone else had been on several of their other courses.
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rayscoops, I already know how to link turns because I learned in the dome last month. plus have falling leaf for iffy spots
Libertine,
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Nah dont bother, its much better inside the giant freezer
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Nobody has said on this thread that boarding in a snowdome is a substitute for the real thing, or that it is better. Of course it isn't. But me (and hopefully snobunni) learning to link turns in a Snowdome from the top in 2 hours of lessons means that when I get to Tignes, I will be boarding on green/blue/possibly red runs on the first day, instead of wasting 1-3 days of my holiday falling on my back bottom trying to learn to board there. I know which I'd rather be doing.
You said yourself earlier in this thread:-
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I learnt in La Plagne with UCPA which was great. I had ski's and board. The conditions were really good so i did not want to waste the good snow learning again so i didnt commit to boarding much beyond the lessons.
For the small amount of off piste that i done on baord, I could tell that it would be awesome if i was more confident.
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Exactly what me and others have said. The snow in the snowdome ain't better than on a mountain, course it ain't, but learning there does the job in getting you the skills you need to board from the off when you arrive in the resort (assuming a morning arrival in resort ) plus gives the person a lot more confidence having boarded before. If they can get a few boarding sessions in before they go as well then that's going to make them massively more confident when they get to go on real soft fluffy now (hopefully). Assuming of course they have enough sense to expect a mountain to have considerably larger ski areas than the inside of a snowdome
In fact, I think the "snow" in a dome is more like ice/hardpack/crud to be honest so at least they will know what it's like to ski/board on that stuff so it's not a nasty surprise when they find that it's not all lovely powder and soft snow in a resort most of the time. There are more benefits than disadvantages learning in the UK first anyway in my view. I don't work in snowdomes or on dry slopes so I've nothing to gain by encouraging it, that's my impartial viewpoint.
What I will probably do after a couple of days of "finding my feet" having a board around is perhaps nip and have a group boarding lesson for an hour or two the one day to pick up some extra tips of what I might be doing wrong so it's fixed early. I'm there for 3 weeks anyway so that would be worthwhile.
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I expect side slipping down on the heel edge makes big ruts in the snow though literally like a pisten bully!
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That's what falling leaf is though. OK it will have some side ways movement so it won't be a straight furrow of ploughed away snow but there will be an obvious gash where the board has gone and the steeper the slope the more obvious it will be.
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I just thought I'd use falling leaf on a board like falling leaf on skis-i.e if I'm in a narrowish spot where perhaps getting a full turn in isn't possible and I want to get down safely.
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That's the point of it but how often do you get in a situation like that in your first couple of weeks?
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It definitely hadn't occurred to me that a lot of boarders ride like that in resorts
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I don't think as many as mentioned above do, but a noticeable amount of it happens.
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rayscoops, cool. I like your thinking. I can't wait to go now what with all this talk of boarding! I'm on ski courses the two weeks after the first week's boarding/skiing but I'll be able to have the board out on the Saturday change over days too if I want.
Hey, talking of changing from heelside regular to heelside goofy like what happens in falling leaf (snobunni sorry if this is confusing you now-forget all this and let the teacher teach you next week) I found when I'm linking turns nicely (I'm goofy) and then have to stop because someone is in the way for example, and then say I go over to the other side of the slope on regular heelside to find a space to start again, that I can make turns both sides goofy or regular. Is this good or bad?
Someone told me that once you've chosen if you're goofy or regular, stick with it or you just end up turning in circles. Is this right and what is your view on this? Do you make goofy and regular turns if you have to?
e.g you're goofy footed right. You're boarding down a piste and making a turn to the right and are on your heel edge finishing your turn, so you finish the turn on the right hand side of the piste looking down the fall line. Someone gets in the way so you stop on your heel edge to brake. Would you just weight the board onto your left foot and drift over to the left hand side of the piste on your heel edge (but now regular footed) as in falling leaf and carry on making a regular turn and swap again to goofy further down or would you stop, turn over on the snow and start again on your toe edge to get over to the left hand side of the piste?
Swirly? are you goofy and what would you do in the example above?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snobunni, going with a mate to tamworth to see him along on a learn to board in a day course. Think it would be rude if I didn't take my gear too....
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FAQ
