 Poster: A snowHead
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Just looking to get some new annual ski / travel insurance, am about settled on InsureAndGo, but just noticed their policy specifically excludes "search and rescue costs".
At first I assumed this was a very bad thing - now i'm not so sure...
Question is, do I need it? I have no intention of going off-piste, and I believe that most lift passes tend to include getting you off the mountain? Are there any cases where you can see "search and rescue" being needed, for a pretty standard on-piste skiier?
If search and rescue will be needed, what alternatives are there? InsureAndGo seem to be very good apart from that, is it worth getting something in-resort to cover each holiday for search and rescue separately?
Cheers,
David
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Does not read like a very good policy for a skier to buy. Is it cheap?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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scuby, I have not read their policy but the first thing I would ask them is does that mean "search AND rescue" or "search AND/OR rescue". "Search" would seem an unlikely event for a piste skier (although not completely I guess) whereas "rescue" happens all the time if they're talking about piste patrol taking you off the mountain 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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scuby, Watch the limits on the Carte Neige you get with the lift pass - I think it's about 4000€. There's an apocraphal story in the mountaineering community that a resuce Helicopter costs 1 Euro for every rotation of the blades, and as they rotate at 1200 rpm, a half hour trip to hospital will cost you plenty. On or off piste isn't really the issue.
If in any doubt write and ask about any specific questions you might have. For example, you're standing on the piste waiting for your friends and get wiped out big time by someone wearing a helmet. The Pisteurs note a head injury, you're unconscious, they decide it needs a chopper... very possible (god forbid). Would you insurance cover the €30k bill? IMV every skier should know the answer to that type of question before they leave the UK
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I take Insure and Go Silver ski insurance when I go. Their staff on the help desk were very good when I had a medical question about my daughter why don't you call them and clarify
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Woohoo, problem sorted.
Yoda your suspicion was correct - it's talking about "search AND rescue". I called them today and they confirmed that they would cover rescue. I gave the example of "if i've broken my leg and they decide to call a helicopter to lift me off a mountain" and they confirmed that they would cover that (and similar).
Happy now - £50 for annual ski + travel insurance, 24 days skiing per year, covers off-piste etc if I need it, with no excesses  )
David
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| scuby wrote: |
| ........ covers off-piste etc if I need it, with no excesses ).... |
Dodgy, IMV, going off-piste and not being covered for search costs.
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scuby, Useful info - thanks for making the call and posting the answer - I am now wiser.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| scuby wrote: |
Happy now - £50 for annual ski + travel insurance, 24 days skiing per year, covers off-piste etc if I need it, with no excesses )
David |
Get your story str8 David... you had no intention of going off piste in your OP... and as achilles says off piste with no S&R is 'dodgy'
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| red 27 wrote: |
| Get your story str8 David... you had no intention of going off piste in your OP... and as achilles says off piste with no S&R is 'dodgy' |
I haven't "changed my story", for want of a better way to describe it.
The main point of mentioning it was as an example that it is "proper" ski insurance and covers most possible activities - and off-piste is one of the most common that people could relate to, but also includes things like snowmobiling which I might do. Also nice to know that there's no way they could argue that I wouldn't be covered if i'm playing in the powder just off the side of the piste, or doing jumps that go on-and-off the edge of the pisted area. I don't suppose they would, but nice to know that i'd be covered anyway.
I'd hope by including little details like that would make it more useful as a post to others who might be looking at insurance options.
David
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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scuby, I'm not getting at you - you're shrewd enough to even ask the question; many don't
I had a recent example... On an organised climbing holiday in 'Sham' I thought I was insured up the proverbial... Rock climbing insurance, full-on off piste skiing S&R insurance, EHIC - the lot so I thought...
the very very shrewd and experienced proprieter of the company I was with took one look at all this documentation and told me I wasn't insured... Although I was going rock climbing and had full S&R & repatriation insurance the fact that I would have to put on crampons to approach some of the rock climbs meant that the insurance co. would class me as a mountaineer - and gues what - you need additional insurance for that. The last point is the one to note... "mountaineering" wasn't an exclusion on my policies but because it wasn't specifcally included it was ...er... excluded - they make the rules!
You sound sorted... but don't think "there's no way they could argue" cos they can and they will and you need to be 100% sure that "playing on the side of the piste"... say ay 4.15pm, break your leg, missed the last pisteur patrol, found 5 hours later in the powder off the piste... etc etc etc etc - I know it sounds doom laden...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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True. I look as much as I can at what i'm getting (since ski insurance is one of the few insurances I buy actually half-expecting to need to use!) and try to make sure it covers everything I need. Hopefully this one will, but as with all insurance it's very difficult to tell exactly what is covered until you've had to claim for the often very unique set of circumstances that you find yourself in.
Cheers for the advice :o)
David
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I also use Insure & Go because of the off-piste cover.
I have no intention of going truely off-piste into the wild, but don't forget the odd little jump to the side of the marker poles, or a cut through between runs would be considered as off-piste by many companies as you are outside of the marked piste. I'd hate to have to pay to get rescued from a few metres of the piste.
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You know it makes sense.
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There is a reason they are so cheap, the wording is one of the most restrictive in the market . . . not a company i would personally use . . .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So is the unpisted run off-piste? This notion that there is always a clear cut and clearly defined limit to what is piste and off-piste is almost as farcical as some insurance companies mumble jumble small print.
Halifax had an insurance policy for 'adventure sports' that covered skiing on and off piste - but away in the small print was this get out - if you went above 2000m any activity would be classed as mountaineering. Mountaineering was expressly not covered.....
So if you went somewhere like Kirkwood, walking down the street from your apartment to the store to get a loaf of bread would be classed as winter mountaineering ! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Winterhighland, policies often refer to FIS guidelines... under those terms marked but unpisted routes are fine (itineraires??) but just pinging off into a powder bowl would require "off-piste" to be specifically included.
Your Halifax story is truly horrific - entrapment really...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I believe that most lift passes tend to include getting you off the mountain?
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They certainly do not.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Insurance , insurance, insurance, Working as a professional mountaineer and business man I have to take all insurance policies very seriously, including my own personal insurance in my industry we have to be very carefull about who we use for our cover, as there are unfortunately quite a few grey areas with some insurance providers.
You do get what you pay for it seems. I use BMC (british mountaineering council) insurance as it offers the most comprehensive and easy to understand policies that leave you in no doubt about what level of cover you are getting and also for what activities. A friend of mine also got a superb yearly policy from, belive it or not, Readers Digest Insurance which also covers ski touring/mountaineering plus the usual piste stuff.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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red 27, in fact, mountain rescue is one of the emergency services and as such costs nothing to the person rescued (I know this because a particularly idiot guest had need of it two seasons ago and got away with paying not a bean. When we asked the rescue people how much it would cost they laughed at us and explained as above.) Assistance from piste rescue, on the other hand, will cost you money because the service is run by a private company (ie whoever runs the lifts).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Assistance from piste rescue, on the other hand, will cost you money
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Indeed, it will cost you quite a lot of money - in our resort there's a list of charges prominently displayed at lift pass offices. The further away from "base" you are, the more it costs. Even a quick ride down the nearest nursery slope is not cheap.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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scuby, have you checked if the "off piste" insurance is valid if you are skiing without a guide. Most off piste policies require a guide even "a little " off piste.
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skimottaret, I'm pretty sure that I&G don't require a guide. I've used them in the past, and it's one of the things I look out for.
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| pam w wrote: |
| They certainly do not. |
Ok then, apparently not all do. Certainly at least one does though - the lift pass for the Milky Way in Italy included getting two friends off the mountain earlier this year (the only time i've ever known anyone need it - one was stretchered down, the other was stuck on the back of a snowmobile). Assumed if they did it then others would, but maybe not 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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scuby, your friends might have bought the optional extra insurance, 2 euros a day and a good buy for anyone who is in any doubt about whether their insurance would cover costs. I think the people selling passes are trained always to offer it. If you have that insurance it's indicated on the pass (well, normally, though you can also buy it separately and then have to show a separate receipt).
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As a matter of interest, what does the French Carte Niege actualy cover you for. Is it limited to the resort you purchased it in? Anywhere in France? or anywhere?
I have never bought it however may well be added security in the future!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lizzard, interesting... you're sure that's not just France? I have heard moutaineering stories from Switz which have defintely cost people money
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| red 27, in fact, mountain rescue is one of the emergency services and as such costs nothing to the person rescued (I know this because a particularly idiot guest had need of it two seasons ago and got away with paying not a bean. When we asked the rescue people how much it would cost they laughed at us and explained as above.) Assistance from piste rescue, on the other hand, will cost you money because the service is run by a private company (ie whoever runs the lifts). |
In principal yes, but France is a bit of a minefield. Your boy was lucky to be in the Isere/Hautes-Alpes where there are lot of state resources (4 rescue helicopters close by) and lucky the piste services in les Deux Alpes were not directly in the loop. They charge people like your guest who was technically "off piste" within the les Deux Alpes ski domain (he was descending from the ski lifts after all) even where the Securite Civile do the pickup
In the Savoie if the CRS rescue you and they came from their advanced base at Courchevel you can end up being charged as they lease a helicopter from SAF. There is a lot of private rescue used by the state in the Mont Blanc range too.
Insure and Go look dodgy for off piste as they have a big huge exclusion clause for "areas deemed dangerous by the resort management". What does this mean? You would have to get a written explaination but I bet crevassed terrain would not be covered without a guide, nor would skiing at avalanche risk 4 or 5.
Regarding helicopter rescue costs, about 1 euro per second of flying time Red27.
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
As a matter of interest, what does the French Carte Niege actualy cover you for. Is it limited to the resort you purchased it in? Anywhere in France? or anywhere?
I have never bought it however may well be added security in the future! |
As the insurance is added to your ski pass at the time of purchase, I imagine that it covers the domain for which your ski pass entitles you to ski for the time covered by the pass.
As a rule, I always buy it. Never had to use it, but I prefer the added peace of mind that comes from knowing that no additional documentation/money is required at what could be a stressful situation following mountain extraction.
Incidentally, does anyone know whether Austrian resorts offer anything similar?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Chasseur, my experience of Austrian piste rescue is that they just take your name and address and then post you the bill - which you forward to your insurance company. Not sure what the S&R situation is though. Fortunately I've not had experience of that!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
As the insurance is added to your ski pass at the time of purchase, I imagine that it covers the domain for which your ski pass entitles you to ski for the time covered by the pass.
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It covers much more than that - though obviously only within the dates purchased. You can buy it for the whole season (I think that's the one called Carré Neige) which is far cheaper than day by day. About 30 euros IIRC. It certainly covers the whole of France and also other European countries, but outside France you may need to pay upfront and reclaim. They told me that when I bought it. There's a very good thread about it somewhere, with lots of useful detail. It may be belt and braces but it's well worth having for its cost, and I insist on it for young and impecunious and/or reckless and/or irresponsible visitors to our place who are a bit vague about their travel insurance (and those who say the policy they get free with their bank account covers them for everything).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It is Carre Neige. If Carte Neige is added to your ski pass, certainly with the electric passes, the info is recorded on the pass. In resorts not covered by your pass, why would you keep it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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But you can buy Carte Neige separately - you don't have to buy it with the ski pass, or even have a ski pass, for that matter. If you do that you need to keep the till receipt as proof that you've bought it. I think in that case it would cover different resorts, though that situation wouldn't crop up that often. And, of course, for people buying Carré Neige season cover the fact that it has such wide validity is very useful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In the switz I use these guys, 30 francs a year and they will fly me out of wherever I've smashed myself into no questions. http://www.rega.ch/en/start_en.aspx
except the only time I maybe needed them I forgot the number (1414)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I needed my insurance this last season after being sledged off in France and the Carre Neige was brilliant.
After being treated i came back to the medical cabinet to sort out the pistueurs bill and collect my skis. All i had to do was sign a form saying they returned my skis which had been tagged and put away for safe keeping. No paperwork, no fees, well worth the cost just for lack of hassle IMO unlike my british travel insurance which never paid out for the medical bills...
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FAQ
