Euro ski trip

A snowHead

Hey everybody,

How's it going, awesome forum that I stumbled upon today.

I'm planning on skipping 3 weeks of school this upcoming winter and doing a ski trip through France, Austria and Switzerland with a buddy. Since this would be my first skiing trip outside of North America I have some questions and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dates:

Would it be better to go after Christmas and into early January, or after midterms in mid February and into early march? Which would have better snow and would the prices be similar?

Cost:

From what I've heard and seen on the internet, skiing in Europe is more expensive than the big resorts on the west coast. I have an idea of how much accomodation + passes + food might cost, but if I could get some ball park figures of what to expect than that would help in determining the planned length with the realistic length Very Happy

Accomodations:

All the places that I have seen on the internet seem to book rooms in 7 day periods. It's still possible to get rooms for 2-3 nights right? Also, is it possible to just arrive into town and still find rooms, or should everything be booked in advance?

Trains:

Were thinking of using trains from nearby cities and buses/shuttles to the actual resort. I've found a website that lists the closest train station but is it possible to catch overnight trains in order to sleep on the train and ski the next day at the new resort?

Any other info that I should consider or advice would be awesome!

Thanks

A snowHead

volkl_ac30,

Welcome,

The later you can leave the trip, the better. December can be risky. January will generally have the lowest prices and snow quality should be OK. Budget around £120.00 for a lift pass in a typical resort.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

volkl_ac30, welcome

3 weeks..?? it sounds a long time for skiing but travelling between resorts can eat into that. In that time it may not be practical to sweep through the alpes via France, Switzerland and Austria.

If you are going to rely on public transport then you should position yourselves close to stations or bus stations and although most villages/resorts will be connected via a post bus... it may not run as often or as late in the day as you would like.

I would tend to concentrate on regions and pick the region that has a type of resort that appeals. Most places will have rooms for ad-hoc stays but they would of course prefer a block book of 7 days.

In Jan you may expect the early season snows to build and it can be traditionally quiet or quieter so getting a hotel or roon for a few days will be easier and cheaper. March may be better but also busier. Rule out December, IMV.

If you think of regions, try this as a grouping; Verbier, Zermatt, Andermatt and Wengen..but you should allow for half a day to travel between them.
Traditionally expensive type resorts but check out the $-chf rate. It might equalise certain things against $-eu. That group has 2 world class resorts and a classic Swiss chocolate box type ambience and would be top picks for european skiers in their own right. The lesser..in terms of piste, might be Andermatt, which would only really justify itself on off-piste potential alone. In and out of Geneva.

Or... and not so very sure about the transport links but I'd think a train and a post bus hop could do it..position your self in East Switzerland and start at Flims/Laax, head south to Davos or St Moritz and try and get to St Anton in Austria.... you might have to juggle which way round you want to do it but your Euro gaetway airport would be Zurich.

Or Chamonix, Verbier, Zermatt. again inand out of Geneva... arguably 3 of the top 5 resorts in the world there in one trip, You will have to taxi into Chamonix..train over to Martigny and upto Le chable and then access Verbier from there, either via daily commute via the gondola or stay in Verbier itslef, which will be the livelier but more expensive option. Then transfer day, down the valley to Martigny and then onto Visp and train upto Zermatt.

You may also think about Val D'Isere/Tignes and then Les Arcs/La Plagne and the 3V's. Even getting bewteen those places can take you 2-3 hrs when all is said and done, via public transport/bus/taxi.

This is enough to think about atm... but think that the travelling days will take 3-4-5 hours getting between some resorts. You may be able to do that late in the day and arrive in resort very late. For 3 weeks, I would cut the rsorts visited down to 4 or 5 max or you will be forever travelling.

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I have been doing your kind of skiing tours for years but with a car.

Feb is the month to avoid in Europe as far as skiing is concerned, especially France and Italy. I would even say if you hit the big French resorts in Feb it is a suffering. I know at least the French and British schoos operate mid term breaks in different weeks of Feb. Austria and Swiss resorts get less crowded because most French skiers within their own country.

Austria is the best bet as it wins on quality as well as in price. The typical accommodation cost close but not directly in resort around 25 Euro per head per night for B&B is easy to find. Staying in the resort, ski-in and ski-out, can cost twice or three times more. The data I have accommulated suggests the crossing (from UK to Alps including all fuel using own car), accommodation, ski passes and food (lunch and dinner) is about 25% each. I normally go for a two-week trip at a time. For a three trip the crossing portion is lower. Everything can be booked via the Internet. I am actually doing a 3-week trip in Jan 09 as described by this thread. Affordable accommodation is most difficult to find in Switzerland the cost is the highest too. The 7-night accommodations are mandatory in most in-resort hotels but once a couple of miles away there is no such restriction. Swiss hotels generally ask for a 4 nights minimum stay. I would suggest for a tour of several countries getting a hired car is the best bet to free from the accomodation constraints. I seldom book 7 nights myself as I don't see choosing to drive a couple of miles to a quiet lift station to avoid the crowd is bad thing at all.

Generally the Alpine skiing resorts geographically do not favour Austria to be included with France and Switzerland., It is a lot easier for France/Italy/Swizerland or Austria/ Italy/France. It you cover only France, Switzerland and Austria you have to cross Italy, unless you travel cross Switzerland from East to West just to avoid Italy.

For the American skiers the size and the close proximity of different countries are possibly the main attraction.

The biggest "linked" area in Europe should be the 3 Vallees of Courchevel/Meribel/Val Thoren which has 600km piste and over 200 chairlifts. The American resorts reported to have the most lifts is Aspen Snowmass with 40 lifts. American resorts are sized in area whereas European resorts like to add the lengths of the piste runs together. The 3 Valles is in a valley called Tarentaise which also has Valmorel, Les Arcs, La Plagne, La Rosiere linked with Italian's La Thuile, Tignes and Val D'Isere with a total of 1600km piste. One can choose to stay in the mid point of the valley, called Boug st Maurice, to ski the whole lot. You need a car though. I reported it in a trip in 2005 here

The second biggest linked area should be the Italian Sella Ronda formed by 4 villeges. This is the world's biggest circular skiing loop. The linked area has 510km pistes and 205 lifts. It is a bit out of the way and I reported it in one of my trips when I visited German and Austrian resorts.

There are Porte du Soleil (partly linked Swiss and French skiing resorts near Genever) and Milky Way (Linked Italian and a French resort near Turin).

Any skier will be spoiled by choices when coming to Europe.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I was thinking of going through France, Switzerland and Austria because I will have to eventually end up in Poland. Apart from my parents, the rest of my relatives live there and my mom wants me to drop in. So if I do that, I can mooch a round trip flight ticket from my parents and that can save me a lot of dough.

We're planning on just dropping by 4-5 resorts or areas like the 3 valleys. Are 120 GBP the price of tickets in Europe? That's around 250$ CAD which is absolutely mental.

Has anybody had any experience using the trains through these countries to get to the resorts?

In terms of snow, do the resorts always groom fresh snowfall or allow people to ski out the powder? Are there areas that are similar to Whistler where they never groom the snow so it's kind of like off-piste skiing while still inside the resort boundaries and avalanche control. Out of curiosity, how much do guides cost for off-piste skiing per day?

Thanks

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Hi volkl_ac30, day lift passes are generally in the 30-45euro (48-72CAD) range, with discounts for multi-day passes, 6-day passes cost the same as 5 individual day tickets (150-225euro).

Your plans sound ambitious, ski 3 countries in 3 weeks, there is so much concentrated skiing in the European Alps, you are only going to scratch the surface, practically every village and valley has it's own ski area, many of these have been linked up into mega-resorts that could take 2 weeks to explore fully.

We would tend to stay in one region and explore it more fully on such a trip, travelling larger distances between ski resorts on public transport is not an easy prospect, a car would free you up as Saikee said. But, it sounds like you want a taste of each country, so decide what type of resort/ski area you would like, stay a week then move on to next country and do the same.

Tell us what kind of skiing you enjoy and we could suggest a resort/area that would keep you busy for a week in each country. That way you could fit in with Sat-Sat accommodation and get the 6-day passes.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

volkl_ac30,

Logistically France is ok ..upto a poin..t from Geneva. Most people do it with Tour Ops or taxis and Saturdays is generally the changeover day so lots of traffic to and from resorts to Geneva..that is a plus. The downside is that public transort is a mare mostly and very local so you will have have to look for a series of hops... not easy to time-co-ordinate..

But if you are a strong skier, you could do Chamonix for a week and you will not be dissapointed. Then train into Switzerland and pick off Verbier or Zermatt which are world class but expensive. That journey will take about 4 hours, I'd say. Then Zermatt via Zurich and onto St Anton..which is an all-dayer IMV...

The trip wil bring you out in western Austria, about 2-3 hours from Munich, Germany. You could then take an overnight to Berlin and Poland.

Obviously haven't done the train trip to Berlin etc but the other stuff is ok....albeit, you wil take out ski 2 days travelling between the 3 resorts.
You may be able to do Chamonix-Zermatt late afternoon and arrive in the resort late evening.

None of the resorts are cheap, and I would say that you would do very well to get near $3000 for the 3 weeks. Just my opinion.... and other resorts may be cheaper but I have listed the very top end in terms of ski destinations and probably price. They would be on any U.S visitors wishlist...

After all it is free · Last edited by After all it is free on Mon 11-08-08 9:27; edited 1 time in total

It sounds as if you like steep and off-piste, I would say Chamonix Valley or Val d'Isere/Tignes in France; Verbier or Davos/Klosters in Switzerland and St Anton am Arlberg in Austria.
So Chamonix-Davos-St Anton could be done by train, and then use local buses as necessary to access the different ski areas.

Late Feb/Mar would probably yield the best snow for this type of skiing

JT, great minds think alike, well nearly! wink

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luigi,

pretty much the most direct route through the 3 countries... Important to keep it in a straight line and not deviate too much.

Which ever way you spin it, $3000 in the minimum I'd say. Most europeans think about £1000 a week, IMV and a typical breakdown maybe... £500 decent/good hotel, 7 nights, £140 lift pass and the rest of spending...or something like that...

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Agree that Val D'Isere, Zermatt, and St Anton would be a good trip as I did it with my soldiers about 3 years ago, all via public transport. We did all 3 in 20 days. If you plan ahead, and dont mind lugging all your stuff around (not a problem for us) its fine. good way to cut down the cost is to stay a little out of town ie La Dialle in Val, Furi in Zermatt (take the Mt railway up every day, not ideal but cheaper), and either stuben or nasserien for St Anton. There is a lot of cheap accomodation available on the interenet and its def cheaper in Jan than any other time. IMV there is not that much difference between European and N American lift pass prices we paid about Can$250 for week long lift pass at Red mountain last year which was only maybe £15 less than a lift pass would be in europe, and you get way more piste in europe! Enjoy the trip!

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The reason I suggested Chamonix is that it keeps the OP on the train. A taxi to Chamonix from GVA is about 20-30eu if you do it right. Tour Op bus is anything in the reps's pocket...so once in Chamonix he can use the train the get everywhere else, west. Other resorts in France would involve more hassle and buses to get to a point where he can cross into Switzerland....unless he is in the PDS

If the trip starts in France, it will most likely have to navigate to the Swiss Rhone valley one way or another and this will be hassle from a travel POV.

If the OP, uses a sat changeover day, he can get back to Geneva easily enough and maybe then onto Zermatt via another OPS bus..or the train.

This is all doable ..but it needs someone to be be pretty sorted about how these things work. With all due respect, I am not sure the OP has realised how far he will have to travel...not so very far in terms of miles...but in times of time, the geography is difficult..
For example... Geneva to Bern for the Junfrau resorts ( Wengen ) will take 4-6 hrs IMV... and that is without the time taken to get back to GVA from France.

A lot of things are doable and tiring but he will be travelling ALL day unless the route is streamlines and logical.

Geneva - Chamonix = 1 hour on a bus.
Chamonix - Verbier, probably 3 hours when all is said and done
Chamonix-Zermatt = 4 -5 hours over the same route but a few hours further up the trainline.

Val D/3 V - Geneva = 4 hrs..?? in a bus.

Zermatt-Zurich=4 hrs
Zurich- St Anton 3-4 hrs..by train...

Just some ball-park figures. Time for the OP to come back and tell us more about his evolving plans..

The suggestion for out of town stays is a must, I'd say.

JT, the problem there is that he/she seems to be young, and would probably want to have a bit of night life. Puzzled

You know it makes sense.

Awesome info, thanks for all the input.

Luigi, perfect prediction!! That is exactly the type of skiing that I enjoy. One thing that I tend to avoid are hard packed moguls. The type that are made from groomed surfaces and are pretty much solid snow/ice underneath the surface. Moguls that are made from fresh powder I enjoy because you can ski around or through them. With this in mind, do any of the mentioned resorts above have a tendency for having hard packed moguls?

The info on the actual lift tickets costing around 50-70$ CAD is much better news as I was expecting prices to similar to that of Whistler which are around 80 - 90$. In terms of costs, I was expecting to spend between 1000-1200$ per week, so it's good to hear that this is attainable. Do you guys think that just doing 1 resort per country would be the best bet (ski for 5-6 days and travel for 1 to the next resort)?

Just a quick question on easiski comment. I'm still in university and def looking forward to meeting some european snow bunnies, but it seems that he's implying no night life exists at the suggested resorts. It's got to be a case of excellent skiing and decent night life right?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

volkl_ac30, No, plenty of nightlife (BTW I'm female). Just that JT suggested you stay out of resort to save money, and that would restrict your nightlife considerably. If you went to one big area per country you'd get plenty of skiing and could go to nearby resorts (as suggested). That would make all the logistics much easier to organise. In europe you can ski off piste anywhere you want at your own risk, so off piste over here means anywhere that isn't pisted. Most resorts these days also have dedicated mogul hills, and everything else is pisted flat every night (pretty much). We're the exception because most of our black runs are left natural - causes a lot of fuss and complaints! However, if you want to ski 3 countries, our neck of the woods is a bit out of the way, in spite of the lure of La Grave .... OTOH you could do L'Oisans (Alpe d'Huez, Les Deux Alpes, perhaps Les 7 Laux, La Grave) go on to Serre Chevalier and thence to Italy via the pass .... However you are probably too young to rent a car (25 I think), so that wouldn't be a sensible option. Sad

A snowHead

volkl_ac30,

Chamonix, Zermatt, Verbier, Val D and St Anton all have lively nightlife. Where you can afford to stay is upto you... but non-central will most likely give you a price break.

A snowHead

volkl_ac30, the idea of doing a week in one resort then moving on is because hotels in the larger european resorts have a preference for bookings of 7 nights (arrive Saturday, leave Saturday) in the main ski season as that is how europeans take a ski vacation. They can stay full every night this way, so don't want irregular bookings that don't fit this pattern. (Chamonix is a bit of an exception to this rule as the summer is the peak season and there is spare capacity in winter)

The resorts that have been suggested have enough skiing to keep you busy for 6 days, the Chamonix valley for example has 5 separate ski hills with a total of 71 lifts. The 6-day lift pass is 235euro ($376, $62 per day). A central 3* hotel (Vallee Blanche) in Chamonix will cost about 120euro per room per night, that's $672 each for the week. A central 2* Hotel de l'Arve is 88euro per room per night (so $490 each for the week). So you will be left $50 (30 euro) for food and drink per day out of your $1200 budget, you won't get many beers out of that. And you must factor in the transport cost to the next resort.

Switzerland will probably be a little dearer than this, Austria (St Anton) similar, but all these resorts are near the top end of prices and quality in Europe

I guess you need to think in terms of how much you would spend in Whistler for a week (lift tickets more expensive than Europe, hotels similar, food and drink cheaper), multiply it by three plus all the transport costs between the different countries and you might come up with a good estimate of what it will cost you, I think nearer $5,000, unless you are meticulous in your planning and find the absolute cheapest way to do everything.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

volkl_ac30, as to the bunnies, I think you may have spoilt your chances with easiski by mistaking her for a man. wink

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I stayed at the l'Arve last year and it is quite central and a nice hotel in Chamonix

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Here's a link to a cheap place to stay in Verbier...

http://www.thebunker.ch/

Cheers,

Greg

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kitenski wrote,

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Sorry for the late reply, but I've been swamped with finals. Easiski, sorry about the typo... and Luigi way to be subtle about my blunder... without a doubt you've got a good sense of humor.

A general question about hostels at these resorts, are they inside the main ski town or outside and you need to commute to the lift? Also, I know that I've asked about the snow but would it be better to go in early January or late February? We'd only be able to go during these times because we'd be able to skip the first couple weeks of school which would be in January, or skip after midterms which would be mid/late February.

How is the snow in off-piste skiing? Is it deep powder or just shin deep and less?

Thanks for everyones help.

After all it is free

volkl_ac30,
http://youtube.com/v/NG3VPQD0bV8 this is Engelberg and Verbier in Ch. The chances of you getting this aren't fantastic btu it does happen/

volkl_ac30, it would be impossible to predict the exact weather and snow conditions next year but generally early Jan is colder, snow cover is thinner, resorts are less crowded, it is low season, hotels offer cheaper rates. Late Feb is still peak season, school holidays in France, milder weather, better chance of good snowcover, resorts more crowded.

As to powder, you can experience snow droughts in the Alps, when everything becomes hard-packed and crusty, then a storm blows through and there's up to a few feet of epic powder, when everything lift-served will probably track out before the day is out. Some of the best conditions can come later (March-April) when spring storms pass through. Europeans often travel to Western Canada/USA to experience more reliable powder conditions. That said, the Arlberg region (St Anton) is one of the snowiest in the Alps and where a lot of the powderhounds would like to be for powder days. Be prepared for mixed conditions and hope for the best!

I don't have a lot of experience of hostels, I've often rented an apartment/chalet with a group of family/friends to save money, the location would depend on the individual hostel. Once you have decided on the resorts you want to visit, post another more specific question about the lodging/accommodation possibilities and you may get more detailed answers.

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arv, amazing powder Shocked

, is that you , or just a fave clip?

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arv, that video is redonkulous

snow reports

luigi, Just youtubed Engleberg powder. It's pretty insane.

kitenski,
Is the Bunker at the Sprots complex in Verbier or is it somewhere else? How are the accomodations?

You know it makes sense.

volkl_ac30, did you know that they have named a pair of skis after you ? I have a pair, and they're awesome...... wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Where are people finding lift passes for £120-£140? Formival?

Last week in the 3V, I paid €270 for a week - nearly £270. Looking around the other ski resorts in Austria, Switzerland etc., they don't seem to be any cheaper.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Help!!

Euro ski trip

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