 Poster: A snowHead
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Alright, alright, I've made a mental note not to compare European resorts (especially those where people happen to have links to accomodation in their sigs or photos of them on the ready...) in a negative light to alternative resorts. Doesn't look like the point I'm trying to get across is going to stick.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DaveC wrote: |
| Doesn't look like the point I'm trying to get across is going to stick. |
Perhaps because it's not justified?
Your dig about whether my advice is biased because I have a holiday apartment in a bit low, especially considering your resort preference  I'm just trying to provide honest, impartial advice, just like you I assume?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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is that les arcs 1800 or 1950?
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Not just a dig at you particularly, just funny and something that happens on Snowheads a lot. All I'm saying, slight hyperbole aside (obviously every resort in the Alps isn't wall to wall people all the time), is that Euro resorts are busier than NA resorts - and that's mainly down to the tourist cultures, in that Euro resorts have Europeans taking week long breaks to the mountains while NA resorts tend to attract more locals in the nearby area at weekends and be quieter weekdays. Examples of "Well, this resort had an empty piste one day!" is hardly refuting it.
I don't own a place in Fernie, I wouldn't recommend it to the OP anyway considering it's steep and challenging and not too well set up for beginners or particularly pretty (though Banff might suit). I'd actually prefer to be in Whistler next year but all things considered, Fernie suits my needs better... but anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC - i did find fernie steep in parts, falling star is it is all nice and gentle and then all of a sudden goes into a really narrow steep part that pushed me to my skiing limit to be honest. i did look at banff but the 20min drive to the slopes put me off a little bit. seeing as though you live in NA can you give me a bit of information on resorts you think might be suitable for me then i have the low down on europe and NA from experts either side of the world. cheers
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| sabraham wrote: |
| is that les arcs 1800 or 1950? |
A bit of everything, it's just one big ski domain really. There's photos taken above Arc 2000/1950, Peisey and 1800.
DaveC, if you indulge in hyperbole which paints an incorrect picture you should expect that people will correct you. The photos I posted (which I post on snowMedia to illustrate the snow reports I do here and in my blog, not so that I an come to the defence of the resort ) are typical conditions not carefully selected to show the resort in a flattering light. There are, of course, tourist cultures in France and elsewhere. In France for example, it is typical that very few French ski in January (so low prices and quiet resorts), and the weekend visitors are so few in number that they don't even come close to making up for the number of tourists who are not in the resort on Saturday transfer days (which really do turn the slopes into a bit of a ghost town). I do own a place in Les Arcs, which i rent out occasionally, but I'm equally likely to recommend other resorts so I reject any inference that the advice I give here is coloured in any way by a commercial interest. It is simply based on nearly 30 years of skiing and the desire to help other people get the best holiday they can.
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| sabraham wrote: |
| DaveC - i did find fernie steep in parts, falling star is it is all nice and gentle and then all of a sudden goes into a really narrow steep part that pushed me to my skiing limit to be honest. i did look at banff but the 20min drive to the slopes put me off a little bit. seeing as though you live in NA can you give me a bit of information on resorts you think might be suitable for me then i have the low down on europe and NA from experts either side of the world. cheers |
I don't live in NA, just lived in BC last winter and going back this winter. Banff is a bit of a pain for getting to the hill but you get a lot of options with Sunshine and Lake Louise, but other than that I don't really know anything besides Fernie. NA is a huge place! I'd definately consider America if you're going for longer than a week as well as Canada, but if it's a 7 day trip I wouldn't really bother just due to the travel involved.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
DaveC, if you indulge in hyperbole which paints an incorrect picture you should expect that people will correct you. |
So you do or don't agree that in general, popular Euro resorts are busier and have more people on the slopes and lifts than NA resorts? All I'm saying. Correct me with how impartial you are all you want, it was a general issue I have with people with interests posting about their areas of choice, not an attack on you. Again, "quiet" is subjective. My idea of quiet and yours are very likely worlds apart.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DaveC, at no point have I made a comparison between European and North American resorts, which is unsurprising as I've never skied in NA. Quiet is indeed subjective, which is why I've tried to illustrate what I mean (no lift queues to speak of, and few people on the pistes as shown in those photos). I find it difficult to imagine what added benefit there would be in finding a resort which had even fewer people than that. You on the other hand have made a direct comparison(NA resorts are quiet, Euro resorts are rammed) which I think is just plain wrong.
Given that you have a specific interest in Fernie it seems ironic that you are complaining about people posting with an interest in their areas of choice. I think it would be a sad day for snowHeads if everyone who knew an area well (by virture of owning property there or lots of other reasons) stopped sharing their expertise
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here is a question. as everyone says, no one knows what the snow conditions are going to be like until the season starts. so if i set my hear on oburgurgl or les arcs etc but then it gets to jan and we have a repeat of 2007 there might be a lack of snow. so whats best, choose my reosrt now and get it booked so i have a guaranteed holiday or wait until the winter and if say oburgurgl is struggling i can always change my mind and go say les arcs or whistler or wherever? if i did do the second option how easy is it to still get somewhere booked? ive never waited to last minute so i dont know what its like for skiing is it still relatively easy to get late bookings? sorry for going off track here
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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sabraham, if you are planning a trip in January I'd say there's no problem with waiting until you can pick up a late booking. You get to choose the area with the best snow, and you might pick up a good deal as well. There always seems to be lots of availability in mid-late Jan.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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 Here's another picture of 2 of our 5 pistes.... the donkey was in the stable at the time  As you can see, pretty quiet pistes! This was mid April 2008 - Mont Blanc in the background. And one reason it's quiet is because there are no UK package holiday operators operating there it's not full of Brits. You could look at a load of photos like this, of a great raft of resorts right across the Alps, just a 1.5 hour flight away from the UK. In practice a key determinant of how nice a holiday your girlfriend has is whether she feels confident and in control - even quiet, gentle, pistes can be challenging if they're icy or covered in churned up crud, and there are usually some more tricky bits somewhere. And the weather, at any time, can be challenging too, in poor visibility especially. Finding somewhere you can have some good quality private lessons should also be part of your holiday plan, perhaps? You'll find Snowheads are in general rather enthusiastic about lessons. Many a nervous skier has been put off for life by a "gung ho" but maybe not very skilled partner who goes gurning down some red run shouting "follow me" and scaring the daylights out of them.
I agree that in mid-Jan you can afford to wait for a deal - indeed, with only two of you, it's the best idea.
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DaveC, what, exactly, do you mean by "people with interests"? There's a lot of innuendo flying around here.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
You on the other hand have made a direct comparison(NA resorts are quiet, Euro resorts are rammed) which I think is just plain wrong.
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So I'm wrong for making a generalisation but you're fine and dandy for refuting that "euro resorts are rammed all the time compared to NA resorts" without any experience of NA resorts?!
I just don't comprehend what's wrong with generalised statements anyway... You're making a massive fuss like I'm a holocaust denier. NA gets a lot more snow than Europe too - that's a more accepted general statement, and statistics back it up, but numbers in resorts is a pretty easy statistic that I'm sure would back up what I'm saying too. There are always exceptions - like Banff, which doesn't really get much more snow than the high snowfall Euro resorts, or chairlift #392131 in generic Euro resort which I'm sure never has a queue - the base areas however, are probably pretty hectic.
As for vested interests, I'm not pimping property in my sig - and again, I don't have a problem with you specifically but you seem hell bent on taking it personally. I'll happily tell anyone that asks what I think of Fernie, positive and negative. The difference is that, overall, I think I'm right in that NA resorts are quieter, and the counter arguments I'm getting are "well, MY resort is dead quiet! Especially off peak!". What I'm saying is, to my knowledge and experience, there will be less people day to day in NA resorts whatever the week, whatever the run. Arguing that "I can find empty pistes" is a cop-out so you can keep arguing I'm wrong - I guess if you haven't actually been to NA you're not likely to realise, but even the main funnels back to base are borderline empty in Fernie (and, as I've said, Fernie is a busier than average NA resort, so I feel it's a valid source to base opinion on for NA).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sabraham, You wont have a problem anywhere at that time of the year! ............. Waiting for avalanche re generalisation, but you should not have a problem late January snow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| DaveC, what, exactly, do you mean by "people with interests"? There's a lot of innuendo flying around here. |
Well, you know what I mean. I mention a global statement about two different continents and I may as well of said "Jesus wasn't really born in La Rosiere" the amount of aggro it's caused. Typically for snowheads, the two dissenting statements are from people with properties, defending their poor defenseless resorts, and attacking the choice of words while blindly ignoring the sentiment in the time honoured tradition of arguing on forums.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| sabraham, You wont have a problem anywhere at that time of the year! ............. Waiting for avalanche re generalisation, but you should not have a problem late January snow. |
But, on average, you'll have even less to worry about in North America as historically, some of their mountain ranges get up to 3x the snowfall that Europe does, so therefore you're 3x more likely to have snow!
(Okay, that was specifically written to wind people up. You might well get 3x as much snow in NA but you'll easily have enough wherever you go in January. Really wouldn't give it a second thought. You can be unlucky and hit somewhere having a bad season anywhere in the world, no matter their historical records.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DaveC, you think you are badly done to? You want to try being a fan of La Rosiere
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sabraham, well after all that backtracking I think we've established that the statement that European resorts are all rammed all the time was just "hyperbole", and that they're not.
However, I'm afraid that my apartment (in the pic above) is not rented out because I spend the whole season in it (apart from the French hols when I swap it with other owners so I can use theirs in the low season). Our particular bit is also too quiet for you, given your criteria above. Two restaurants and a donkey (actually the donkey is only there in the summer). However, there are plenty of other apartments in Les Saisies for rent if you were interested, though as you want a package I hadn't suggested that particularly. It is the case, though, that some of the nicest places are not on the tour operators resort lists, maybe because they don't have enough beds available to make it worth their while.
If you wait till nearer the time to make a last minute booking you will find loads of fast feedback on Snowheads about the options available.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| I really like La Rosiere!! |
That's it you're in for it now (pulls up a seat and waits for the fireworks). I just don't know how you could make it worse other than saying you're Dutch and related to Stanton.
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| sabraham, You wont have a problem anywhere at that time of the year! ............. Waiting for avalanche re generalisation, but you should not have a problem late January snow. |
Exactly!
Mind you, I did have a bad experience in Verbier in Jan 07... literally nothing below 2000m...
But yeah, you are worrying a bit too much. If you were going in November then fair enough, but Jan will be fine. Of course there will be enormous queues at any time of year except in Fernie... 
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I reckon it's rhetorical, and it will come along again next month. Just you wait and see..... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Two restaurants and a donkey (actually the donkey is only there in the summer). |
So what does he (Mr Donkey) do in the winter, ski at Fernie?
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oh we always get lessons, no point in struggling on your own when you can have a pro tell you what your doing wrong especially when we have only been skiing for 3 yrs. my gf is confident on good reds, if she see's a slope that she thinks is steep she will just go at her own pace. however when there are loads of people whizzing past her especially boarders thats her pet hate she just loses all the enjoyment which is why i said i will try find somewhere she can be comfortable in. thanks for all your help guys really apprieciate it
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno,
oh yes, sir, indeedy, which is why we always want to keep the balance between beds and uplift. I always thought the new gondola at Pendant oversteppped the mark in that respect.
Look for a resort where the locals don't want new build, in any respect, ( unusual in itself but I can't think of 2 such places, straight off ) and you'll probably find a dream ski area..
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DaveC, Fernie can have massive lift queues - I've waited for up to 10 minutes for Timber chair on a powder morning at Feb half term. Its also a funny place - given Inghams pushing it hard I've met a number of people who didn't really like it -"not many blues, no nightlife on the hill" etc while I can't think of many places that have as much varied & accessible "terrain" in a relatively small area & a fun local atmosphere (despite RCR).
St Patrick's day we did speed gps runs (on snowboards) down the bunny chair (& we could because there was no-one on the slope).
Not really had major queues in Euroland the past few years though either - though lack of singles lines & the Euro attitude which dictates that no-one should ever get a move on in the lift line gets on my tits.
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You know it makes sense.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
You on the other hand have made a direct comparison(NA resorts are quiet, Euro resorts are rammed) which I think is just plain wrong.
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So I'm wrong for making a generalisation but you're fine and dandy for refuting that "euro resorts are rammed all the time compared to NA resorts" without any experience of NA resorts?!
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The statement I was contradicting was that Euro resorts are rammed. In January it is just not true. You might well be right that a typical NA resort might be quieter that a typical European resort, but that doesn't mean that the Euro resort is rammed. It's a fairly simple point I'm making.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sabraham, I agree that quiet slopes are a great plus on askiing holiday, especially for the more nervous skier.
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Poster: A snowHead
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whats everyones views on obertauern? would it sit what im looking for or am i way off the mark?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
So what does he (Mr Donkey) do in the winter, ski at Fernie?
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No, he's a French donkey, he goes down to Provence in the winter; indeed it's not just one donkey, but quite a family. They give rides around the mountain in summer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DaveC wrote: |
I just don't comprehend what's wrong with generalised statements anyway... |
Nothing, if they are at least generally correct.
"All European resorts are rammed all the time" is not even close to generally correct.
The statement you have since been using that "European resorts are generally busier than the comparative North American reosrt" is just as much a generalisation, but nobody is complaining about that because it is basically valid.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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sabraham, obertauern would suit you just fine from what i've been reading on here. It is a good mixture of red and blues in a "bowl" which is ski-able both ways round. There is a really vibrant apres ski scene. And it is as snow sure as anywhere, the resort is at 1800 metres. Not a massive amount of piste kilometres but if you were to tire of the terrain there is plenty of options for a day out nclose to hand. Shortish verticals but good terrain. And a good and varied selection of places to stay.
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sabraham, I do think Obertauern would suit you very well indeed. Pretty snowsure as is quite high for Austria, plenty of social life, and nice mix of runs for intermediates like yourselves. The only downside (from my personal point of view) is that it is a purpose built resort (although in fairly sympathetic style), so it's not a quaint Austrian village, which might be unimportant to you, but as you had said you were interested in Austria, I would just say it is not really typical of Austria. But we have had a couple of excellent holidays there and as the quaint village thing doesn't seem to be on your list of must-haves, I would say Obertauern would suit you really well.
Another plus is that most of the accommodation is more or less ski-in/out, or literally just a few steps from the lifts. One thing to watch if you do decide to book it, the village is fairly linear along the pass, and so although everywhere is close to lifts and pistes, do make sure that your combination of accommodation, equipment rental and ski school works together.
Really nice mountain restaurants there as well, which is always a plus for nice lunches!
D
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I love Europe. I love being able to sail into a hunky guy in a busy lift queue and say 'Oh sorry, I was pushed.' I love sitting on the T-bars and chatting to the Austrian ski instructors - always nice and friendly. I love the buzz and the atmosphere, the culture, the food, the variety of people. I love tartiflette and kaiserschmarren. I don't mind being crammed in the gondola that goes to Zurs because the guy who drives it is a real scream! And the sun shines. I don't mind skiing in crowds any more - ain't a problem - as far as I'm concerned, they're not even there. Wise up - we're European and I like that.
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erica2004, So where are you going next year; and more importantly, when
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have only been skiing twice once to Chamonix 2005 and the other to Saas Fee 2006. Both in mid December had snow. Saas Fee is prob more what you are looking for and we loved it. Not sure how busy it will be in Jan/Feb but was very quiet in December. A few bars and good food.
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erica2004, thats my kind of girlie..... 
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FAQ
(fwiw, I don't really know where and when that happened...)
