 Poster: A snowHead
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Arosa in Switzerland - fits all your requirements !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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typical "rammed day" in the French Alps. Mid January, 1500m.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lou wrote: |
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you'll always find that Europe is rammed all the time
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seconded. |
Oh grow up. In context, that's absolutely correct. There's no comparsion. Alex's quote puts it more gently if that's what you need...
| Alex_Henley wrote: |
| You simply will not find any major resort in Europe which is anywhere near as quiet during the week as most Canadian resorts (possibly excepting Whistler!). |
Anyway, North American resorts as a general rule will be a lot quieter than European ones, especially comparing like for like - Whistler is probably the exception, as it gets busier during peak weeks too, but it's quiet outside of these. The rest generally aren't afflicted with the same week long holiday tourist - it's much more of a weekend culture in NA, with people driving across, rather than people staying in resort for a week.
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| pam w wrote: |
| typical "rammed day" in the French Alps. Mid January, 1500m. |
Useful input. Better question - do you queue for European chairlifts much? Ever have to fight for your place with an army of holidaymakers trampling your gear/doing anything they can to get ahead? Canadian ones have 5min queues a) at 8:30am on a powder day and b) at 10am at weekends. Otherwise you ski on. They even have people forming orderly queues and taking it in turns to let people get on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC,
Thanks for that.
My problem is your sweeping generalisation about skiing in Europe, simply not true. It may well be your experience and I can only assume that you were unlucky or misguided in the resorts/timings you chose. I am sure that it is generally quieter on the slopes in Canada/US but there have been many occasions where we have found ourselves alone on European pistes and with careful avoidance of halfterms etc have never considered it to be 'rammed'.
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DaveC, I would have been skiing in the same place as pam w on the day that picture was taken.
The answers to your questions would be: no and no. It isn't the kind of place where you fight with anyone, even on a powder day.
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right im guessing here from what everyone is saying that, canada is quieter than europe in general but there are still places in europe that are quiet and i have been given a few suggestions such as oburgurgl and arosa which i am going to look at. one thing i have been wondering is about whistler, i know from what i have read this is the most popular resort in canada. in terms of how busy it gets does a busy whistler mean it is similar to a busy european resort or a quiet european resort? on the slopes i am talking about here
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sabraham, big generalisaton but Whistler is quieter than its European equivalents (by which I mean somewhere like Val d'Isere) but more busy than somewhere like Fernie from what people have been saying
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hmmmm in two minds whether to try whistler or go to one of the austrian resorts now
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sabraham, I think you're falling into a really common trap of thinking there must be a 'perfect' resort out there that precisely matches your needs, that will be staggeringly cheap, perfect empty pistes that are immaculately groomed, 100% guaranteeably snow-sure even on a bad year, all within a 20 minute transfer of the airport, etc.
Truth is: avoid peak times, and pretty much anywhere will give you a great week one way or another, with only a handful of exceptions (like La Grave which is definitely experts only). Even at peak times a bit of careful planning would still yield somewhere alright (just have to go away from the big name resorts, really) Invest in a copy of Where To Ski And Snowboard (09 edition should be on the shelves within about a month) would be my advice, and have a good read through. And don't bother trying to find a resort that gets 5 stars in every category, cos there aren't any. 
I've been through the pain of trying to find a resort suitable for a big group (perfect snow, amazing slopes for all abilities etc.) and in the end my conclusion is this: if there's snow on the ground, it'll do nicely!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Serre Chevalier will be quiet at the end of January.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the other point is that most resorts have their busy areas and bottlenecks so you need to work out ways to avoid them. generally places around the edges of the piste map work well IME
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Oh i know there wont be a resort that matches everything i want that applies to everything in life. all i want is an uncrowded resort with a good snow record, evertyhing else comes second to that really but those are main requirements if a can find a resort like that i would be made up
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You know it makes sense.
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I've heard that many Italian resorts are very quiet but they are also less snow secure than resorts in many other countries. Never skied Canada but if the price is right then probably worth going for it. The way the oil price has been going I'd expect trips across the pond to increase much more in price than inter Europe trips. There are very few big name resorts I would consider skiing in Feb, Obergurgl is one of them because lift queues are unusual or short (only so many fit in the village and it's not the most convenient resort for day trippers). Obergurgl also has reputation for being snow secure.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sabraham, the longest queues i have ever encountered have been in Whistler over Presidents week(end)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| sabraham, the longest queues i have ever encountered have been in Whistler over Presidents week(end) |
Agree.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would love to ski Canada or the US but really can't be arsed with the travelling. We have had the most wonderful holidays in Europe ad done a tiny minority of the resorts we would like to visit. If it aint broke.........
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sabraham, I would also say that obsessing over how 'snow sure' a resort is for a Jan trip (as looks likely in your case) could be counter-productive. It does seem to be true that Jan is less 'guaranteed' for snow cover than March for example, but in Jan, which is the dead of Winter, you could just as easily have a really grim time due to wind, cold, and poor visibility - with amazing conditions underfoot - and wish you were somewhere sunnier and a bit lower down that in all likelihood does have perfectly serviceable snow cover!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd like to ski in Canada sometime, but only as part of a longer trip to Canada; for me it's too far to bother for just a short holiday. Also I don't like it very cold (which it quite often is, I gather, especially in late Jan/early Feb) and neither do I like resort level rain - which friends who went to Whistler had most days of their trip. They are mad about Fernie but they are very strong skiers - off piste, through the trees etc. I know the skiing at Whistler is higher, but trudging through the rain to a lift is not my idea of how to spend a great deal of money. I don't think the skiing would suit me very well either as I'm not strong enough skier to take advantage of Canada's comparative advantage in deep powder tree skiing etc. I don't do lift queues. I have skied the last five seasons in Europe and only rarely wait at all, and practically never for more than a couple of minutes.
sabraham, I would recommend mid to late January, rather than first week of Feb, when the resorts do start filling up a bit. Do have a look at Les Contamines, which I recommended above. There are a number of comments on it on Snowheads, all pretty favourable. English is more widely spoken there than in some small French resorts (like the one in my picture above, which is of our apartment, taken from the chairlift.  ) If good quality tuition is one of your priorities then there are probably better choices, though.
In small French resorts, by the way, people generally go to bed pretty early. So if you want full bars at 1 am, go somewhere full of British package tourists who will just be getting into their stride then, prior to doing moonies down the village street at 2am.
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agree with the travelling to canada, it is hard especially if you end up flying with monarch, im sure their planes are made for ants (no legroom) haha. i do like the sound of austria now though but will definately have to look at the other resorts in swiss and france that people have suggested on here too. thanks for the help everyone
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| sabraham, the longest queues i have ever encountered have been in Whistler over Presidents week(end) |
Yes, there are two aspects to "crowded".
I think sabraham was more concerned about space on the pistes than queuing time, but both should be considered, and don't always relate to each other as closely as you might expect.
The most crowded pistes I have ever experienced wree in January 2007 at Kaltenbach (I have never skied outside January except for my Canada trip), when there was no snow at all in much of Austria, so tour ops were all running buses to the nearest place that did have decent conditions. It seemd like half of Austria were on the Kaltenbacjh pistes! But the lift system there is so good that even then, we never once had to queue for more than about 2 minutes.
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yep i dont mind queing for lifts its the actual skiing on the slopes is what im more looking at. there where some queues at fernie and then when we got up on the slopes people just disappeared and it was great
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've skied a lot in Whistler and would always say to anyone going there on holiday at peak times that its likely to be busy.
This is because if you act like a tourist e.g. try to take the Gondola up from the village at 9.30, try to eat at peak times , ski Emerald chair a lot then slowly go over to Harmony then Symphony & back before skiing down at the end of the day on the deteriorating home run then it will be busy.
Meanwhile the wilier locals will have got on the first gondy from Creekside blasted a fair few laps by 11.00 am and gone back down to start work, having done as much skiing as you'll do all day without waiting.
The same analysis holds I imagine for many crowded resorts the world over.
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| Quote: |
The same analysis holds I imagine for many crowded resorts the world over.
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I'm sure it does, and the local skiers and people working seasons know the tricks; my son had no problems with crowds in Val D'Isere all season. But it's not so easy when you're only there for a week and don't know the place like the back of your hand. For most of us the answer for most of us is to go to an uncrowded resort. Anybody without school aged kids who goes skiing in school holiday time (not just the single English half term, but all the local holidays too) is potty. I like both lifts AND pistes to be uncrowded, thanks. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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oh thats something ive not thought about, does anyone know when kids have half term in europe say austria? what about canada too? definately want to avoid the half terms
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lou wrote: |
DaveC,
Thanks for that.
My problem is your sweeping generalisation about skiing in Europe, simply not true. It may well be your experience and I can only assume that you were unlucky or misguided in the resorts/timings you chose. I am sure that it is generally quieter on the slopes in Canada/US but there have been many occasions where we have found ourselves alone on European pistes and with careful avoidance of halfterms etc have never considered it to be 'rammed'. |
Well, if you're going to take one line from a paragraph and start "seconding" things from what was a generalised but balanced argument... pretty standard internet trolling IMO.
I lived in Morzine one season and Fernie last season - I know Fernie is a relatively busy Canadian resort compared to places like Revelstoke/Red etc. I've done weeks on holiday in a fair few Euro resorts. You might not consider it "rammed" but in slope traffic and lift queue length, I'm certain North American resorts look like ghost towns compared to quiet Euro resorts. So, you can assume I'm misguided, and I'll assume you've not actually been to a NA resort...
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sabraham, if you fancy Austria, quite a lot of the Ski Amade region is pretty quiet a lot of the time, but especially in Jan. The Amade is a group of resorts in the Salzburg region which are all on one liftpass, not all lift-linked (in fact it's quite a long way between some resorts, but others are very close and lift-linked). The villages all have a different style and atmosphere, but are almost exclusively traditional type pretty Austrian villages.
The area is in general (with a few notable exceptions) not high altitude compared with some of the French resorts, but altitude isn't the only thing that affects snow conditions, and as the Amade lift pass covers so much terrain, there is always the opportunity to take the bus to another resort for a change and for different conditions. In particular Zauchensee (see below) and Hochkeil often have excellent conditions earlier and later in the season, and the Dachstein glacier near Schladming is as snow sure as you can get. Schladming opened in October last year and stayed open until late April.
If you are looking for somewhere with a bit of a social life as well, I would recommend places like Wagrain, Flachau, Bad Gastein and Schladming as options. Also Zauchensee although smaller is a fab little resort.
For most of the Amade, outside of peak weeks there are not too many queues, and there's plenty of space for people to spread out on the pistes.
Another option would be Obertauern, which is higher altitude, but not in the Amade, will probably be a bit more expensive as a total holiday cost.
Finally, Ischgl in the west of Austria is one of my favourite resorts, massive extent, lively village, wide range of accommodation. It is a bit more expensive than the resorts further east though.
Hope this helps.
D
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You know it makes sense.
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sabraham, the Austrian Semesterferien in Feb is usually spread out over two to three weeks starting at the end of Jan. But this has less of an impact on how busy things are than the German and Dutch hols, which I don't have the dates for at the mo.
If I were you, and you can go in late Jan, that is when I would pick, and is when H and I will take one of our weeks.
D
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sabraham, Unless forced to I've avoided the whole of February for France since it seems that all of France and UK are on half term at some time during that month. Don't know about Swiss and Austrian kids.
As mentioned earlier and alluded to by several others there are many occasions during Jan and March when so-called busy resorts are relatively deserted (let me qualify that by saying no queues for lifts and typically half a dozen groups of 3-6 skiers along a whole length of piste) re: my comments on Les Gets at Easter. The biggest queues experienced (>5mins) were Alpe du Huez (sp?), Pas de la Casa and La Plagne but these were the main lifts out of the resort first thing in the morning. Once out of the resort and in to the mountains queues are pretty acceptable.
I've never skied in North America and would love to one day just to tick it off but for now Europe will suffice
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Poster: A snowHead
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DaveC, no use backtracking now. What you said was that "you'll always find that Europe is rammed all the time". To suggest that was a balanced argument (even in the wider context of what you wrote) is a bit rich. It was an unhelpful and inaccurate generalisation in a thread which is supposed to be helping someone without much experience of ski resorts to find a quiet one. If you post statements like that it can only be in expectation of having people jump in to tell you that it's rubbish. I spend most of my time on uncrowded pistes, even at weekends, and in fresh snowfall, and a fair bit of time on pistes with nobody else on at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w where are these pictures from it looks amazing, is that les Contamines?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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deliaskis - i have heard Ischgl has one of the best lift systems in the world so there arent many queues, 18 seater would i be right? if they need a lift system like that does it mean it can be quite busy on the slopes itself? just thinking if a huge lift system like that is there then there will be a lot of people in resort, hope you can tell me a little bit more about it though?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| DaveC, no use backtracking now. What you said was that "you'll always find that Europe is rammed all the time". To suggest that was a balanced argument (even in the wider context of what you wrote) is a bit rich. It was an unhelpful and inaccurate generalisation in a thread which is supposed to be helping someone without much experience of ski resorts to find a quiet one. If you post statements like that it can only be in expectation of having people jump in to tell you that it's rubbish. I spend most of my time on uncrowded pistes, even at weekends, and in fresh snowfall, and a fair bit of time on pistes with nobody else on at all. |
Well, in comparsion to NA, it's a pretty reasonable generalisation - the implication was for same sized resorts - obviously if you want to go to the middle of nowhere with two runs and a donkey then you can find an empty mountain if you'd like. There's a place 20mins down the road from Morzine (St Jean D'Aulpes iirc) we used to go on powder days because literally nobody was there,so yeah, there are quiet places in Europe - it had two chairlifts and approx five marked runs - but comparing same sized resort with same sized terrain availability, it's not remotely close.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sabraham wrote: |
| deliaskis - i have heard Ischgl has one of the best lift systems in the world so there arent many queues, 18 seater would i be right? if they need a lift system like that does it mean it can be quite busy on the slopes itself? just thinking if a huge lift system like that is there then there will be a lot of people in resort, hope you can tell me a little bit more about it though? |
fewer people in lift queues = more people on the slopes
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sabraham, Ischgl is known for having a very efficient lift system, lots of fast high volume chairs means very little queuing at all. Only queues we noted the week we were there in Jan 06 were just between 9.30 and 10 at the Silvrettabahn, as all the ski school groups were uploading. After that on the mountain we skied right onto the lifts most of the time.
The pistes are not particularly busy, apart from the main drag down to town from about 3.30 onwards. Then it does get a bit busy, although it can be avoided by timing it right, or by downloading in the gondola if you really want. But we skied it every day at about 4.30 and yes for that one run of the day it was busy, but I wouldn't let this put me off going there, it's a fab place and everyone I know who has been really rates it.
I wrote a trip report on it which you can read on the resort reports thread at the top of the board (Jan 06 I think). A few other Snowheads went this April and did a video trip report which you should be able to find if you search.
It is pretty lively at night so good if you want to socialise.
Hope this helps.
D
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sabraham,
| Quote: |
deliaskis - i have heard Ischgl has one of the best lift systems in the world so there arent many queues, 18 seater would i be right? if they need a lift system like that does it mean it can be quite busy on the slopes itself? just thinking if a huge lift system like that is there then there will be a lot of people in resort, hope you can tell me a little bit more about it though?
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Ischgl is a brilliant place, with lively apres-ski - but the runs around the Idalp bowl do get very busy, especially the blues, even in January (were there 5th - 12th this year). Other more far flung pistes are fine, but in the afternoon some of the steeper sections of one or two of the blues get quite chopped up and turn into a comedy zone with skiers tumbling all over the place!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DaveC, Les Arcs is a bit bigger than two runs and a donkey and is very quiet in January. Virtually no lift queues, quiet on-piste, and deserted off-piste (and it offers considerably more terrain, pisted or not, than most North American resorts). To say it is "rammed" is just factually incorrect.
sabraham, some photos from Les Arcs showing how 'rammed' it is:
3 Feb 2008
21 Jan 2008
17 Jan 2008
2 Jan 2008
3 Feb 2008
All those photos are typical of the resort for that time of year. There will be one or two busier pistes, but most of the place is quiet, verging on empty if you head to the edge of the psiet map rather than stick in the centre.
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i know im stressing but just want to make sure my gf has a nice holiday and is comfortable on the slopes
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