 Poster: A snowHead
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Having unwillingly been confined to being a piste-monkey for most of skiing years due to the people I have skied with I'm now fed up and want to ski the mountain properly away from the groomed. I've skied a few lines after bootpacking for a bit and really enjoyed it (not sure my 65mm wide skis did though).
Now, there seem to be many "learn to ski off-piste/pow" holidays run from the UK to French resorts, are these any good and can anyone recommend any companies with a good reputation? Also, I'll be going by myself - how is that likely to work out? I don't want to bored when not skiing so any that have lots of people in their 20s is a bonus.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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narc, there will be several options for you, one of which is this. Lots of single travellers on these trips, and they will arrange a same-sex room share for you, avoiding single supplements.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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narc, take a look at the following:-
http://www.inspiredtoski.com/datesandprices
They do an Off Piste Performance course and on a few dates throughout the year which might suit. Their Off Piste courses are half a day, which to be honest, will probably be enough for you if you've not done it before, it's hard work.
www.snoworks.co.uk
www.alpinecoaching.co.uk
Both the companies above do Off Piste courses as well, Snoworks have Off Piste courses which are half a day and Backcountry courses which are all day, same applies with Alpine Coaching, they're all day too.
I've travelled with Inspired To Ski and Snoworks (am trying Alpine Coaching next Feb to Gressoney) and I'm in my twenties (female) I take it you're a man? I have to admit mind that I've been the youngest person there pretty much (or one of the youngest anyway) every time. Most people seem to be in their 30's 40's 50's and 60's to be honest. I think the first time I went to Tignes there was a chap there on holiday with his dad and he was 23 I think but it will be pot luck who you get.
I'm going to Tignes in December though with ItS on their Pre Season courses so at least if you try them (their Pre Season courses are really good value) you can be guaranteed that there will be one other person in your own age group!  Also they can fix you up to share with someone of the same sex if you don't want to pay single supplements. All of the companies I mention do this though, not just ItS.
Depends on what you want to do most-if it's to learn to ski off piste and do it well then the above companies can help. If you want to be with people your own age and do it, well I would say it's going to be mostly 30's and 40's as I say. Tell you what though, despite me being the only person in their 20's usually on the courses I've been on I've had an absolutely brilliant time, a right laugh and there's plenty not to be bored after skiing. I find older people more fun anyway generally and have made lots of friends/contacts who are quite a bit older than me from these courses and that.
Hope that helps.
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narc, ah just seen rob@rar's post above. He is a fan of Snoworks. I have to admit I did notice slightly more younger people on the Inspired to Ski courses I've been on than on the Snoworks course I went on, but as I say it's pot luck. Hope that helps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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narc, You could also take private lessons or a group almost anywhere. If they know what you want they'll try to provide it. Most ski instructors are only too thrilled to have peeps who want to learn off piste. The price is likely to be comparable or cheaper than a special week's course. Be warned though: wherever you and whenever you go, you may well get off piste skiing, but you may not get powder. That is a rare commodity, and they are not synonymous. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wise words easiski.
Off piste powder is easier to find in other parts of the N Hemisphere that have very consistent snowfall throughout the winter season.
Namely western N America, Japan, Scandanavia, and the higher resorts in the Alps.
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The SCGB do some good holidays for learning off-piste. They tend to be expensive, and you heave to become a member. easiski is excellent - but would be expensive on your own. However, I was lucky enough to be able to join a small group she already had going, which brought the cost down a lot, and were also great company.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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as achilles says - the SCGB does a range of introductory courses for people wanting to go off-piste.
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***
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 22-07-08 12:29; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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hsdee's St Anton suggestion are generally good and in Val d'Isere there are several good companies who will similarly put you in with a group of the same standard- I would suggest Alpine Experience as the best for a beginner (they are all English speaking - many are British, Australian etc).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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narc,
If you are on your own, you might pop down to the Tourist Office and ask about Off-piste trips. Also, ask the ski schools, as they might have a turn-up and go type operation. We did this in Zermatt when it started snowing late one afternoon and so we got 20-30cms of fresh snow the next day. The giude was very good but we didn't go anywhere near a glacier which wasn't a problem as he probably wouldn't have been qualifuied for that anyway.
The group was just 5 strong and it worked well. Be straight with them about what you expect and can do as a comparable group will be best.
If you aren't lucky with the snow, this shouldn't put you off as your off-piste skills will only be of use if you can cope with more snow types and the best way to ski that sort of stuff is NOT to avoid it.
Treat powder as a bonus, but if you can ski crud and crust, you can ski almost anything
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narc, .... Mountaintracks ... are GOOD .... and they run a very good 'Introduction to Off-piste Skiing' each year at Ste. Foy and possibly other areas. Do check them out - rock solid - does what it says on the tin .... !
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You know it makes sense.
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Great to hear about people's experiences with these different companies - just what I was after, thanks guys. Approaching skis schools etc is also a good suggestion. Checking the prices I can see why there are often less young people on these too, Ouch! Got to factor in ski rental too, my Atomic SL12s are not exactly the right tool for the job...
Pow would indeed be just a bonus. Learning to ski any other variable snow is just as important especially in the alps which doesn't get Utah/Montana amounts of snow. I'm after learning the skills to ski confidently off-piste in most conditions on fairly mundane lines. Hitting 40+ degree pitches, deep pow, chutes and other gnar I see posted on TGR can all be slowly built up to over time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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narc, I can vouch for UCPA which is a French-run organization. Doesn't look like their 2008-2009 trips are loaded yet, but here's the site: http://holidays.ucpa.com/france_winter.aspx
They have their own properties throughout the French Alps, some of which offer off-piste courses. Flaine, Val d'Isere, Val Thorens, and Argentiere are among the resorts (there are more) where they offer off-piste guiding. They have two categories of off-piste - those who are still learning to ski well in it, and those who already do. They assess everyone on the first day and group according to ability. Lodging is nothing fancy (some centers are more rustic than others), but prices include lodging, ski pass, full time lessons / guiding, all meals, and ski equipment, which is typically current season high-end stuff. Many of their centers offer instruction in English, and you'll find the participants come from all over Europe, not just France. Very economical way to travel solo and learn some off-piste. Age group is 18-40, but if you go during a week that is not university vacation, you'll find most in the late 20's - 30's age group. Lots of participants go solo, so it's very easy to meet people.
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Poster: A snowHead
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BernardC, narc, yes about Mountain Tracks, I've not used them for trips (yet) but Bryan Hogg, one of their instructors taught me one week with Inspired to Ski and he was great. Lovely man, very patient and experienced with Off Piste, I think he's based in Ste Foy actually.
narc, I know, re cost-that is one of the reasons that a lot of the clients on these course trips are older and I guess more financially established folk. If you want to learn off piste/skills you need for off piste properly from scratch though, the pre season weeks in Tignes with Inspired to Ski are probably going to be the best deal you could get for value-hence why I'm going again this year!
An idea for you......the cheapest week they do is 29th Nov-6th Dec right......but they don't offer Off Piste Performance that week, only All Mountain Performance. Thing is, if you are a good skier already (check out your level http://www.inspiredtoski.com/findyourlevel) even on their All Mountain courses in my experience you will go off piste if the conditions allow and also, the skills you will learn on an All Mountain course will literally be all mountain skills i.e can be used on piste or off. The two All Mountain courses I've been on we went off piste during the week. It might be better for you doing an All Mountain actually instead of an designated Off Piste course so at least as a newbie you get a bit of respite. Hard, cruddy, variable snow is hard work day in day out.
The only snag is with the first week of December course, is that it will be a gamble if there will be enough snow for off piste. Probably though looking at Tignes snow history. Last year though, I went with them as a Level 3 and we went off piste using the same skills we had learned on piste. I had never been off piste like you and probably not as good a skier as you either having only skied 3 weeks before I went with them, but it did my skiing the world of good! Last course I went on in April I was a Level 5-that's quite a difference from a Level 3 so they really do help you improve.
Anyway, hope that helps you out.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, Did you go on a snoworks trip? If so, which one?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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narc, true what folledeski says about UCPA. They are normally very cheap indeed, although like folledeski says, expect basic accomodation and sharing with more than one other person. The people that go with them will certainly be your own age though. Action-Outdoors springs to mind actually, they use UCPA accomodation for their trips. I've not tried either UCPA or Action Outdoors though.
www.action-outdoors.co.uk
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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erica2004, I've been on lots over the years. Race (GS and slalom), off-piste and all terrain.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| If you want to learn off piste/skills you need for off piste properly from scratch though, the pre season weeks in Tignes with Inspired to Ski are probably going to be the best deal you could get for value-hence why I'm going again this year! |
Pre-season off-piste? What will you ski on?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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VolklAttivaS5, when does Tignes open? If it is properly pre-season only the Grand Motte will be open, and nobody will be skiing off-piste in glaciated terrain that early in the season (not unless they have a death wish of course). None of Sally's instructors have UIAGM qualifications as far as I know, so they won't lead onto the glacier.
If I was booking an off-piste course, or an all-terrain course with the hope of getting some off-piste in if conditions allow, I'd go much later in the season when snow depths will be greater.
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rob@rar, this year the Espace Killy opens 29th November as far as I know. They (Sally) call the courses Pre Season-probably more so because it's Pre Main Season I should imagine, not in the sense that we know pre-season i.e Autumn glacier skiing only. I went last year on 1st December, the first day that the Espace Killy opened, and we did go off piste that week, however the early snow was fantastic, it might not be the case this year as I said, narc would be taking a gamble. Although all parts pretty much of the Espace Killy were skiable, some of the lifts connecting Tignes to Val D'Isere were closed in the early part of the week due to high winds.
No Sally's team are not UIAGM qualified as far as I know, not on that week anyway but as I say last year we didn't need to worry about that as a over a metre of snow fell that week I was there and there was shedloads of snow, both on piste and off. Of course this year could be better or worse.
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If I was booking an off-piste course, or an all-terrain course with the hope of getting some off-piste in if conditions allow, I'd go much later in the season when snow depths will be greater.
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Agreed, and so would I, but all I was pointing out is that narc could see what a course is like at a fraction of the cost of the trips in main season, the skills he would learn on piste even if as luck would have it he couldn't go off piste that week, would be valuable skills for off piste/variable snow anywhere on the mountain. I detect that cost may well be an issue so, I have pointed out a possibility noting the possible disadvantages in my post above, i.e it would be a gamble with the snow and he might not have much or any off piste to ski on.
Last edited by After all it is free on Mon 21-07-08 21:45; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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narc, oh 'ere y'are, they have an Off Piste Performance course on 6th Dec, specifically for off piste the week after the one I mentioned on 29th Nov for £20 more..... I thought it was a bigger difference than that to be honest from one week to the next but hey anyway that's probably the best value (or one of) Off Piste course weeks you'll find with BASI ISTD instruction for the week. Obviously they must think there will be enough snow for off piste for them to offer an off piste course, but it depends of course on the snowfall nearer the time.
I'm not sure who UCPA get in to do their instruction. Does anyone know?
Anyway, you've got lots of options from this thread haven't you!
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I'd definitely look at going late season if I can so even if it gets warm there is a decent snow pack left especially off piste. Skiing corn is better than the chance of no snow, especially if I'm dropping a decent amount of money on this trip. I've had some bad experiences in early Jan over the years in europe.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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narc,
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I'd definitely look at going late season if I can so even if it gets warm there is a decent snow pack left especially off piste. Skiing corn is better than the chance of no snow, especially if I'm dropping a decent amount of money on this trip. I've had some bad experiences in early Jan over the years in europe.
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True, corn is better than no snow at all and hopefully late season the same sorts of bargains as early season offers can be had. The only time I've had a bad experience with lack of snow-on piste even! was in March 2007. Then again that was known to be a bit of an iffy season as snow goes. The ski in ski out hotel I went to (booked it a long while in advance so didn't go there deliberately, would have picked somewhere else had it been a late deal) was surrounded by fields! In the March the year before there was loads of snow in the same ski area, hence booking to go back so far in advance. Imagine the disappointment. In March this year, it did not stop snowing, a really good month for pretty much all places, same as December 2007, it snowed loads, providing a great base for the rest of the season. It was good that it did actually, as February was a really warm month with little or no snowfall for about a month before it bucketed it down come March. I'm sure some people will agree or disagree with me though, all depends when and where we went doesn't it!
Ah, shame it's all pot luck really eh.
Good Luck finding something, at least you have a fair few companies to have a look at now. What you could do, is see how much snow starts to fall November/December time and go from there, at least that way if lots has fallen in December again this year you could consider December/January trips (I've always found January trips so far to be a ripper funnily enough) and if no snow in December then consider February/March/April trips to allow some good snowfall in the meantime. In my experience you should be able to get on a course of your choice with any of the companies mentioned (albeit not with a single room-they get booked up quickly) maybe a month before quite easily, with some of the ones I've been on with various companies some people have booked like a few days before even, so that should leave you with plenty of choice if you don't mind not having a single room, as I say they normally get booked up quickly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| I went last year on 1st December, the first day that the Espace Killy opened, |
I was in Val d'Isere that week. Conditions were good, although I've never seen so many avalanche scars, but atypical. If the priority is to develop off-piste skills I think later in the season is a much better proposition, regardless of what courses the ski schools run.
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rob@rar, yes, hopefully narc can get to go late season instead as he has said, often those companies have cheaper accomodation deals then too like the early season ones from what I have seen, cheaper than main season anyway obviously, so he can save a few bob, I think that's the plan.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm not sure who UCPA get in to do their instruction. Does anyone know?
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The UCPA instructors in my experience are excellent and seem to stay with the company year after year. Not entirely sure, but I think they have their own training / classifications in addition to the standard French ones. Any of the off-piste instructors will either be Mountain Guides or training for it, if I remember correctly. They had whatever certification is needed to take us out onto the glaciers. I found the instructors to have exceptional knowledge of the local areas, climbing, exposures, avalanche preparedness, all the good stuff you'd expect. Avy training was mandatory in class.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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folledeski, I've never skied with UCPA but I was under the impression that they are allowed to use a fair number of instructors who don't have the full French certification. Maybe I'm mistaken in this?
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, You may be right, like I said I'm not entirely sure. I'd be guessing though that any instructors without full certification would be teaching the more beginner-level groups...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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folledeski, I really don't know for sure, but some of the UCPA instructors I've seen in Les Arcs have left me distinctly underwhelmed after I've seen them free skiing or in instructor development classes.
It's probably best to have a separate discussion about the desirability of having partially qualified instructors teaching beginners 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, Interesting. Would be even more interesting to know if they are still just learning (in UCPA-branded gear) or actually allowed to teach. All I can say for sure is that based on my experience in their more advanced classes, quality of instruction was a distinct non-issue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| folledeski wrote: |
| rob@rar, Interesting. Would be even more interesting to know if they are still just learning (in UCPA-branded gear) or actually allowed to teach. |
Yes, they might well have been on some sort of gap course or similar run by UCPA. If that was the case I'd question the wisdom of sending their pupils out in UCPA kit as it certainly made me doubt the quality of their setup. But as I said, I really don't know anything for sure, so I might be well wide of the mark.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd throw in another vote for Mountain Tracks and add in a vote for Chamex. Richard M who instructs their introductory course is outstanding. I'd also suggest ensuring that there is a mountain safety aspect to whatever you do as well as the skiing instruction.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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BernardC, ah yes I wondered if you might know Bryan Hogg. 
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FAQ
