 Poster: A snowHead
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Am travelling to Austria (Zauchensee) in February in a Minibus. Its a long way, but its cheap!
Does anyone know if we require snow chains and/or winter tyres on a Minibus? Is this a legal requirement?? Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm pretty sure the requirements are the same as for cars, which means yes.
I certainly saw minibuses with chains on last year and the year before.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Depends - anyone know if it is going to snow in Austria next February?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
anyone know if it is going to snow in Austria next February?
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 A mininus is likely to have no better traction than any other vehicle, possibly worse. The ski buses, mini ones and big ones, round our way, often have to put chains on (and I have waited in one or two blizzards when the drivers struggled with broken chains, too). Essential that you have them and know how to mount them. I don't think a foreign registered vehicle would need winter tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| wazza wrote: |
| Am travelling to Austria (Zauchensee) |
Ooh I'm sure you will enjoy that. Iwouyld love to return there.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's a legal requirement that you carry chains or have winter tyres during the winter in Austria.
However .....
1. If you have an accident in winter conditions without winter tyres there could be insurance implications even if you are not at fault for the accident. Insurnace companies have been know not to pay out in certain cases whereby it was deemed that winter tyres would of prevented the accident from occurring.
2. Most cars in Austria (90%+) have winter tyres during the winter as it is much more severe than the UK (the temps even at low level can remain below freezing for weeks). Summer tyres mean much longer stopping distances and reduced traction / roadholding.
Chains with summer tyres is the cheapest option but when compared to winter tyres, the risks are a lot higher for everybody on the road.
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| Quote: |
Insurnace companies have been know not to pay out in certain cases whereby it was deemed that winter tyres would of prevented the accident from occurring.
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This is repeated fairly often on Snowheads and I can see that within Austria that might be the case. But are there actually any documented cases of a UK insurer refusing to pay out on a UK insured car driving in Austria, when an accident has occurred. Or is this an urban myth? Winter tyres are a big extra cost for somebody just spending a week in Austria every couple of years.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Winter tyres are a big extra cost for somebody just spending a week in Austria every couple of years. |
IMHO that's another myth, or at least is not true in every case. IME using winter tyres has cost me only ~£40 than I would otherwise have paid for tyres over the same period without using them. I'm only using one set of tyres at a time and my winter tyres seem have about the same treadwear per mile as my summer ones (yes they have the snowflake/mountain symbol). Their purchase price was about the same. The £40 was for a set of spare rims to mount the other set of tyres on.
Of course winter tyres are probably not an option if you're hiring a vehicle in the UK. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Insurnace companies have been know not to pay out in certain cases whereby it was deemed that winter tyres would of prevented the accident from occurring.
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This is repeated fairly often on Snowheads and I can see that within Austria that might be the case. But are there actually any documented cases of a UK insurer refusing to pay out on a UK insured car driving in Austria, when an accident has occurred. Or is this an urban myth? Winter tyres are a big extra cost for somebody just spending a week in Austria every couple of years. |
An Austrian insurer will refuse to payout if the other car in the accident doesn't have winter tyres or chains on in winter conditions irrespective if who caused the accident. When in Austria you are governed by Austrian law not English law and can now be fined for not having the correct winter setup. Hundreds of people (including children) were stranded overnight in sub zero temps last season. This was mainly because foreigners didn't have the correct winter setup and refused advice to stop = vehicles with summer tyres sliding around the motorway until a pileup occured. The Austrian goverment has finally got fed up and has started to clamp down. These are facts not myths.
Yes it's a high cost for a week every couple of years but so is an avalanche transmitter. I wouldn't put my family and others on the road at risk by driving from the UK to Austria on summer tyres. The conditions aren't always uniform and you need to find a place to put the chains on. Summer tyres / chains could be a pain in the neck because without winter tyre you would need to put them on and take them off more often.
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DB, there are a number of factors that you've thrown into the argument here. I entirely agree that winter tyres are good things - I have four - but I spend a lot of time in the mountains. I am also accustomed to chains, and use them several times each winter, on top of the snow tyres, because of awkward conditions and our hill. It is most definitely a myth that having snow tyres, or a 4WD car, necessarily does away with the need for chains.
It's difficult to establish the facts about Austria and there are two clear questions:
1. Has the use of winter tyres now been made mandatory in Austria (you posted in November last year, just seven months ago, that some politicians were "calling for" this change)? and
2. Have any UK insurers declined to pay out on accidents in Austria on the grounds that the lack of snow tyres may have contributed to the accident?
Without doubting your words about best practice etc. these are clear questions which are worth pursuing and which are highly relevant for any British tourist driving to Austria for a week's skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, as far as I was aware, the 'politicians calling for' was meant to become a law very quickly, I think from Jan 08, so not the months and months of deliberation that we seem to be used to here!
Agree that whatever tyres you have, sometimes chains are still necessary if you live on a hill.
Re your second point, I haven't heard of anyone having such a claim rejected (but don't know anyone who has needed to make a claim either), but without wanting to be a complete cynic, I would guess that if the law did come into effect in Jan 08, then an insurer would not cover accidents that occurred whilst driving a vehicle not properly equipped (by law). And although I'm no big fan of insurers, I can see their point to be honest.
Even before the supposed new law, we have very often seen police preventing people from proceeding in snowy conditions if they have no winter tyres/chains, so there has always been some kind of legal/law enforcement involvement in the issue when conditions have required it.
D
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Even before the supposed new law, we have very often seen police preventing people from proceeding in snowy conditions if they have no winter tyres/chains, so there has always been some kind of legal/law enforcement involvement in the issue when conditions have required it.
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Absolutely, same in France, which is why you'd be a wally to go without chains, and without knowing how to use them. Snow tyres are not enough, if it's really snowy you have to actually put the chains on, or the police can stop you. Happened to my brother in law with a car hired from the Swiss side of Geneva - he had snow tyres, but he was stopped and told to get the chains on. He was glad, too, given the conditions he encountered. If it's a legal requirement I guess the OP could find out from his insurance company.
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| pam w wrote: |
| 1. Has the use of winter tyres now been made mandatory in Austria (you posted in November last year, just seven months ago, that some politicians were "calling for" this change)? |
Yes since Jan this year.
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t85157.html
| pam w wrote: |
2. Have any UK insurers declined to pay out on accidents in Austria on the grounds that the lack of snow tyres may have contributed to the accident?
Without doubting your words about best practice etc. these are clear questions which are worth pursuing and which are highly relevant for any British tourist driving to Austria for a week's skiing. |
So as long as the UK insurers always pay out it's ok to do without winter tyres? You're still going to have to pay out any excess and potentially lose any no claims bonus even if the other driver is at fault. More importantly money doesn't bring winter crash victims back from the dead. IMHO if it's not worth buying winter tyres then it's not worth traveling by car to the alps. We have proper winters here, not a bit of snow/slush that is gone in a day and a much higher percentage of the country is covered by mountains than in France. If somebody saved a few hundred quid but caused an accident in which one of your family/friends was killed, how would you feel?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
pam w wrote:
1. Has the use of winter tyres now been made mandatory in Austria (you posted in November last year, just seven months ago, that some politicians were "calling for" this change)?
Yes since Jan this year.
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t85157.html
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But that states "This means that either all tires must be winter tires, or that the tires on the driving axle must have snow chains." So if this is correct the law states quite clearly that standard tyres with snowchains are OK!
With care you can drive safely on a bit of snow/slush on summer tyres (at much lower speeds than with winter tyres), and if it really snowy you put the chains on.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| RobinS wrote: |
| Quote: |
pam w wrote:
1. Has the use of winter tyres now been made mandatory in Austria (you posted in November last year, just seven months ago, that some politicians were "calling for" this change)?
Yes since Jan this year.
http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t85157.html
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But that states "This means that either all tires must be winter tires, or that the tires on the driving axle must have snow chains." So if this is correct the law states quite clearly that standard tyres with snowchains are OK!
With care you can drive safely on a bit of snow/slush on summer tyres (at much lower speeds than with winter tyres), and if it really snowy you put the chains on. |
Completely agree...you can't expect a tourist from the UK to buy a full set of snow tyres for their weeks skiing....chains yes shoot anyone who tries to drive without them (and they are out there)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Let's assume someone drives from the UK to Austria with standard (summer or all season tyres without the mountain winter tyre symbol) and chains.
In order to meet the legal requirements in Austria everytime the road experiences winter conditions the chains should be put on. It's not unusual for sections of road to be ok and then other sections to be covered in compact snow / ice. You'll probably get away with it in France traveling to main resorts where the roads are cleared by snowploughs or the sheer volume of traffic. This is often not the case in Austria, especially when travelling deep into Austria or to smaller Austrian resorts.
The bottom line is that in bad weather you will either
a) adhere to the law and take many hours longer to get to the ski resort (putting on chains takes time and the car speed is limited with snow chains) or
b) you will use the chains a lot less than you should and take illegal risks. To me this is akin to a foreigner in the UK driving around on bald summer tyres because the driver wants to save money. (Stoping distances and roadholding are badly affected)
Winter tyres mean that you don't have to keep putting chains on except in extreme situations.
Us Brits are (to some extent like the Americans) reknown in Europe for buying all the latest gear (skis, skiwear etc) and 4x4 SUV's but then grumbling at having to pay out a few hundred quid on a set of winter tyres.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DB, I totally agree with you where the person is going to live in resort for any lenght of time but can't help feeling that it's overkill to say that every tourist who ventures into the land of lederhosen must have a set of snow tyres fitted.
If they accept that they might need to stop frequently to take chains on and off then surely that's their decision.
(BTW it's not all easy in France either...last season there were several times I put chains on a 4x4 with full snow tyres)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, I totally agree with you, and to be honest, the cost of making sure our vehicle is 'fit for' an Austrian winter trip, plus the petrol and ferry, mean that actually it is much better sense for us to fly and then rent a car, which already has winter tyres and a set of chains. It's all part of the holiday calculation to be honest. And agree about ski kit etc. Priorities eh?!
D
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Completely agree...you can't expect a tourist from the UK to buy a full set of snow tyres for their weeks skiing....chains yes shoot anyone who tries to drive without them (and they are out there) |
Since it doesn't cost me extra to have two sets of tyres (well, ok a one off cost of £40) I consider it worthwhile to have a set of winter tyres for the winter just for use in the UK.
Edit - having said that, there is a real problem for people using a vehicle hired in the UK (whether that be a week or two hire or a company car). I can't imagine the vehicle owner would understand about winter tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Deliaskis wrote: |
Re your second point, I haven't heard of anyone having such a claim rejected (but don't know anyone who has needed to make a claim either), but without wanting to be a complete cynic, I would guess that if the law did come into effect in Jan 08, then an insurer would not cover accidents that occurred whilst driving a vehicle not properly equipped (by law). And although I'm no big fan of insurers, I can see their point to be honest.
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The law requires them to still pay out on any third party claims. They can't even refuse to pay out if your car had no valid MOT (and required one).
Although they can then attempt to reclaim that payment from their insured driver if the car was not roadworthy.
I would actually be quite surprised if the Austrian insurers are legally permitted to not pay out just because one of the vehicles was not legal on the road, either. I'm pretty sure that requirement is part of EU law.
I stress that this only applies to the minimum third party cover required by law. They can put whatever conditions they like on any cover beyond the minimum statutory requirement.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| BTW it's not all easy in France either...last season there were several times I put chains on a 4x4 with full snow tyres |
OK so you've experienced real snow conditions.
Would you drive to Austria from the UK in a fully laden mini-bus (inc family / friends) on summer tyres and a set of chains? - I wouldn't. If the cost of driving a vehicle with winter tyres was cheaper than other alternatives I'd consider it.
How often would you expect to put the chains on in bad weather, how much longer is your journey likely to take? - on a long journey through Austria the number of times I may be required to put chains on could be into double figures. Sticking to the law I'd probably lose at least one days skiing and a lot of sleep. I've required chasins twice in one journey even with winter tyres.
What would you do if the chains snapped? - I'd call the ÖAMTC who would likely react quicker than the AA or RAC.
Does your insurance pay out if the vehicle is deemed not fit for purpose? Would your insurnace protect you against a private claim if someone was seriously injured / killed? - I wouldn't expect my insurance to pay out the full amount without claiming against me.
As far as I am aware nobody here on snowheads has had a winter car accident on summer tyres in Austria. Most have had a jolly good time in the land of lederhosen without pranging cars - I hope it stays that way.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 26-06-08 10:14; edited 1 time in total
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| I would actually be quite surprised if the Austrian insurers are legally permitted to not pay out just because one of the vehicles was not legal on the road, either. I'm pretty sure that requirement is part of EU law. |
If it was deemed that winter tyres were required and would of prevented the accident occuring, insurance companies have been known not to pay out the full amount.
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| Deliaskis wrote: |
DB, I totally agree with you, and to be honest, the cost of making sure our vehicle is 'fit for' an Austrian winter trip, plus the petrol and ferry, mean that actually it is much better sense for us to fly and then rent a car, which already has winter tyres and a set of chains. It's all part of the holiday calculation to be honest. And agree about ski kit etc. Priorities eh?!
D |
I'm sure you must have needed both winter tyres and chains trying to get up the Schmittenstrasse on a snowy night!
I was just booking a hire car from Munich airport and notice that from Dec 1st to Feb 28th the maximum charge for winter tyres is now 5 euro per day, this is descibed as a 'mandatory fixed local fee' Outwith these dates the charge is 13 euro. Amazing - a common sense local motoring law that encourages compliance, well seen it's not the UK 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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robboj, yes a snowy Schmittenstrasse is good fun! It's also funny because it can be damp and slushy at the bottom and light and fluffy at the top with everything else in between on the way up.
Plus our car park can be fun and games before the chap has been out to clear it!
We've been very lucky with rentals though, the last three times we have rented from Salzburg I have booked a Focus/Golf size car and ended up with a 4x4 Hyundai Tucson, I don't know why it's always us, but we're not complaining.
D
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[quote="Deliaskis"]robboj, yes a snowy Schmittenstrasse is good fun! It's also funny because it can be damp and slushy at the bottom and light and fluffy at the top with everything else in between on the way up.
Unfortunately mainly damp and slushy (apart from the top) in the last couple of winters?
Usually it's the perfect example of the dilemma of this thread, most days last winter you could start at the bottom in summer tyres, need the winter tyres by the time you're at the stadt wien, and chains by the time you're at the talstation!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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robboj, 06/07 mainly damp and slushy, 07/08 very snowy! We had a couple of trips this last season where we have had a week of what I would call 'proper' winter driving conditions. First week in March it snowed most nights so whilst it got slushy in the sun in the day, the person doing the bread run in the morning (guess who?) had fun and games getting up and down. And a lot of snow at town level too - our friend was in hospital in Tumersbach and we got to make lots of fresh tracks of the vehicular kind on our morning visits!
Yes the Stadt Wien seems to be where rain/sleet becomes snow, always!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| I would actually be quite surprised if the Austrian insurers are legally permitted to not pay out just because one of the vehicles was not legal on the road, either. I'm pretty sure that requirement is part of EU law. |
If it was deemed that winter tyres were required and would of prevented the accident occuring, insurance companies have been known not to pay out the full amount. |
But not, I assume, if the "missing" winter tyres were on their insured vehicle, where the third party (who had proper tyres) is making the claim.
If it were the third party without the winter tyres, then I can see the argument that as they were partly to blame, they should not receive the full payout.
I can also see them reclaiming as much as possible afterwards from their own insured driver where the vehicle did not meet the requirements. But I would be very surprised indeed if they were legally allowed to only pay the third party part of the claim because of deficiencies on the part of their insured driver.
NOT THAT THIS IS ANY EXCUSE FOR DRIVING A VEHICLE THAT DOESN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.
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alex_heney, is your German better than mine or Bablefishes? From a page on the ÖAMTC (their AA for any that don't know) link to from the page DB linked to.
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Beweispflicht bei Unfall mit Sommerreifen
Schon bisher war es möglich, jemandem, der im Winter mit Sommerreifen in einen Unfall verwickelt war, ein Mitverschulden anzulasten. Durch die Einführung der Winterausrüstungspflicht kommt es zu einer umgekehrten Beweispflicht: Nun muss der Autofahrer, der mit Sommerreifen unterwegs war, beweisen, dass der gleiche Unfall auch mit Winterausrüstung passiert wäre. Ansonsten trifft ihn jedenfalls ein Teilverschulden. |
which bablefish translates (scrambles) to
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Burden of proof in accident with summer tires
Already so far it was possible to charge a contributory negligence to someone, which was complicated in the winter with summer tires into an accident. By the introduction of the winter equipment obligation it comes to reverse burden of proof: Now the driver, who was with summer tires on the way, must proves that the same accident would have happened also with winter equipment. Otherwise a partial being to blame for meets it anyhow. |
and
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Zahlungspflicht der Haftpflichtversicherung
Unverändert bleibt die Zahlungspflicht der Haftpflichtversicherung, die auch bei Unfällen mit Sommerreifen für die Schäden des Unfallgegners aufkommen muss und kein Geld vom Lenker des sommerbereiften Fahrzeugs zurückverlangen kann. Auch die Kaskoversicherung zahlt grundsätzlich die Schäden am eigenen Auto, wenn nicht weitere erschwerende Umstände hinzukommen, wie beispielsweise weit überhöhte Geschwindigkeit.
Der ÖAMTC geht nicht davon aus, dass sich die Rechtsprechung der Gerichte zur Leistungspflicht der Versicherungen ändern wird.
Bei Unklarheiten über die Verschuldensfrage nach einem Unfall bzw. wenn sich die Versicherung bei der Schadensabwicklung zugeknöpft zeigt, empfiehlt sich die Kontaktaufnahme mit den Juristen des Clubs. |
which babelfish makes
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Obligation to pay of the liability insurance
The obligation to pay of the liability insurance, which must be responsible also in accidents with summer tires for the damage of the accident opponent, remains unchanged and no money of the steering wheel of the sommerbereiften vehicle can reclaim. Also the all risks insurance on vehicles pays in principle the damage to the own car, if not further making more difficult circumstances are added, as for example speed superelevated far.
The ÖAMTC does not assume the jurisdiction of the courts will change to the obligation to perform of the insurance.
With ambiguity over the indebtedness question about an accident and/or if the insurance shows up during the damage completion course-buttoned, the establishment of contact with the lawyers of the club is recommended. |
Hopefully the German is clearer than the Babelfish.
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You know it makes sense.
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| peura wrote: |
| Since it doesn't cost me extra to have two sets of tyres (well, ok a one off cost of £40). |
If you can buy a full set of snow tyres for £40 then I would agree there's no excuse...........but £10 per tyre are you sure????
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| peura wrote: |
| They also seem useful in getting the car out of muddy fields (being M+S rated) when I go to various horse racing event or open air concerts . |
eeeerrrrmm M&S aren't full snow tyres and in extreme snow conditions wn't help!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| marcellus wrote: |
| eeeerrrrmm M&S aren't full snow tyres and in extreme snow conditions wn't help!!! |
I'm well aware of that, I'd said above that they have the "severe traction rating symbol" or "snowflake/mountain symbol". What I meant was that they do also have M+S which means that the tread has more void than a summer tyre and thus better grip in the mud. I'd put them in category 3) in the list:
1) Studded tyres e.g. Michelin X-Ice North, Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5, Vredestein Icetrac.
2) Soft/"Nordic" snow tyres e.g. Michelin X-Ice, Nokian Rsi, Vredestein Nord-Trac.
3) Hard/"Central Europe" winter tyres Michelin Alpin A2, Nokian WR, Vredestein Snowtrac 2.
4) M&S "all season" tyres e.g. ?
5) Summer tyres e.g. Michelin Energy Saver, Nokian H, Vredestein T-TRAC Si.
If I thought I'd get extreme winter conditions for long enough I'd get a "category 2" without a question but since I do a lot more driving on wet roads than compacted snow/ice roads I think that would be the wrong compromise for me. I believe I'm not allowed proper tyres for real snow conditions, which is probably just as well since the studs would only get ripped out on the tarmac and "skate" over the surface.
Edit:- not that this is at helpful to the O/P, because I doubt he'll be able to persuade the van hire company that winter tyres would be a good investment for his hire van.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My snow tyres cost me a lot more than £43.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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peura, if you can get snow tyres for £43 per tyre could you perhaps arrange a group buy for members of :snowheads: please?
I'm sure there would be a good tke up!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm still trying to think options for wazza. Even the hiring (in the UK) of snow chains for a minibus seems likely to be difficult. Can one hire them abroad? Would/could the rental company object to the use of snow chains? I doubt in a hire vehicle one could make use of the places where I believe one can hire winter tyre (I've only heard of these, never used or found one). Hiring a minibus in France(?) might allow one to get snow chains and possibly even winter tyres on the minibus but that has it's own troubles.
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pam w, likely I'm lucky that I have fairly "ordinary" wheel so need a cheap tyre size (185/65R14). Aren't your summer tyres are more expensive also? Of course, it doesn't matter how much the winter tyres cost because as long as the price of the summer tyres is similar using two (seasonal) sets of tyres still won't cost any more. As long as you wear the tyres out before they need replacing due to old age (5 years IIRC). Also, I now buy tyres online (after failing to find winter tyres in "the solid world"), previously I used to pay £90ish per corner so that's a big saving (that I likely won't have made if I hadn't bothered to try to look for winters tyres). Obviously I also have to pay for joining of tyre to rim, but again the cost is the same regardless of whether it's a winter or summer tyre.
marcellus, I'm wrong again, I've just looked at Mytyres where I got mine from and now they're £38.20 (they were £43 when I got them). I'm not sure what sort of winter tyres you would want but you could have a look at Mytyres or Pneus-online. Although Pneus-online seem more expensive ("my" tyres cost £49) I've drawn up a list of their top rated winter tyres (FWIW I'd put all of them in Cat 3 on my list above and yes mine are in that list):
Vredestein SNOWTRAC EN FR
Michelin ALPIN A3 EN FR
Bridgestone BLIZZAK LM-25 EN FR
Nokian WR EN FR
Goodyear ULTRAGRIP 7 EN FR
You'll have to do your own search on Mytyres or their French site for the size you want.
If you want something for more extreme (frozen) winter conditions, then I was quoted (last year) ~£40 each for Nokian RSi (which has been third in the Motor.no tests for a few years) from Wealden Tyres. But I don't think they're as good in the wet or bare dry road as some (all?) of those listed above. I've no idea about studded tyres in the UK (since I don't think I can use them) but in Sweden they seem to be about 8% more expensive than the RSi so perhaps it might be <£50 here (if anyone would import them).
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FAQ
Sorry no. The winter tyres cost £43 per tyre, compared to £46 for summer ones. The one off cost of £40 was for four of spare rims (£10 each). Both the summer and the winter front tyres last for roughly the same mileage. So now rather than replacing one set of tyres after ~18 months, I'll replace use two sets of tyres where each set will require replacing every ~36 months. From this I conclude that running winter & summer tyres is cost roughly neutral (perhaps even slightly cheaper) than using just a summer set, provided that I do the changeovers myself (and it's not that hard to replace wheels 
).
