 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anybody have any contacts or suggestions about hiring 4x4 car hire from Lyon Airport?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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most of the usual companies have 4x4s there. any reason in particular why you need one?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have always got transfers except when going to Chamonix. However need transport for where we are staying at Xmas and hubby doesn't like the thought of struggling with snow chains!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ruthie, You'll need to make sure it has the correct tyres
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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4x4s are relatively very expensive to hire - and you will need still chains anyway. (4wd is great for getting up hills in snow - but no advantage for stopping on downhills!)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ruthie, .... Hertz have 4X4 vehicles at Lyon, but as ski, & RobinS, have indicated, you will need to have chains anyway. If the vehicle is fitted with winter tyres you probably won't need to use the chains, but in very severe conditions they are necessary.
Slight problem is that many French rental companies do not fit winter tyres to their 4x4 fleets. I did ask Hertz a few years ago, as a friend wanted to hire one with winter tyres. They didn't do it then, but may have changed policy. Worth giving them a try anyway.
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As a 8-year owner of 4x4 I still have problems of getting snow tyres for the vehicles. A normal 4x4 uses truck tyres and snow tyres are still rare because of the larger sizes. These 18", 20" and 21" alloys make the matter worse. Fast road going summer tyres are plentyful Pure 100% winter tyres are like gold dust for 4x4. One of the reason why I changed my Rav4 to a Shogun was the latter is supported by more tyres. I skid at a walking pace at a roundabout in Chamonix with a one-year old Rav4 from brand new. It has a stock tyre nowhere suitable for the job.
Nowaday I make do with "all-season" tyres. If a winter tyre has 5 stars my "all-season" tyres have 3 stars rating. High performance fast road going tyres normally has only 1 star rating on snow surface and can be treacherous.
A 4x4 can have tyres fitted for mud, sand, grass, snow, rock or paved surface. A wrong set of tyres can be dangerous on snow. Types with sips (zip-zag micro grooves) on treads and rubber arranged in mud and snow block pattern are essential on snow surface. Continuous rings, hence no blocks, suitable for high speed and directional stability on high performance tyres are bad news for travelling on snow.
On the other hand I have driven my 4x4 for the last 6 seasons in the Alps and have not had a need to fit the chains which were bought new for the first year I owned the 4x4. For 2-wheel drive vehicles I did have to use my last two sets of snow chains regularly.
I am used to fit snow chains but finding a place to fit them when the need arises puts me off. It is no joke to fit snow chains and get splashed by water and snow from the closely passing vehicles. You can take it from me by the time you need to put the chains on a large parking space to do it safely is always in short supply!
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ruthie, At Grenoble airport we upgraded at the desk to a 4x4 (as the only car in the 'group' we had booked was a beat up Renault Kangoo that stank of cigarette smoke.) The extra cost was €20 for the week, which totalled much less than the advertised price.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Right, this is getting complicated. I assumed 4x4 would mean no need for snowchains obviously I was wrong. So maybe just chance hiring ordinary car and hope that snow chains are not needed. Never used them and I can just picture martial disharmony in the dark on some precarious road!
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ooo dear just realised my spelling mistake might be prophetic! (marital) 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ruthie, you may be better off requesting an ordinary car fitted with winter tyres and which has snowchains. It is compulsory to carry snowchains in any vehicle in the French Alps in the winter, even if this is a 4x4.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ruthie, I agree with Helen - get a regular car with winter tyres. No need to go to the expense of hiring a 4x4. I've only once had to use chains when driving a car with winter tyres, but had to use chains loads of times with regular tyres. It's one of the reasonsI prefer to travel to (the Swiss side) of Geneva airport as all their cars come equipped with winter tyres.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| ruthie, At Grenoble airport we upgraded at the desk to a 4x4 (as the only car in the 'group' we had booked was a beat up Renault Kangoo that stank of cigarette smoke.) The extra cost was €20 for the week, which totalled much less than the advertised price. |
If I had a choice between a Kangoo in snow and a 4x4 I would go with the Kangoo, although not a cigarette stinking one.
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You know it makes sense.
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I assumed 4x4 would mean no need for snowchains obviously I was wrong.
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No, you're right. I've driven a 4x4 here for over 10 years, never needed chains even in the most severe conditions (ongoing blizzard, over half a metre of snow on the road) regardless of whether I was going uphill or down, always been waved through by the gendarmes when they were stopping drivers and making them chain up. People just love to make out that life's much more complicated and intimidating than it really is. 
However, I'd go with the normal car with snow tyres option - cheaper, every chance you won't need chains anyway (Mr L drives a Saxo to/from resort every day at 05:30 all winter, has borrowed my 4x4 less than half a dozen times in two years, never used his chains).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lizzard, in 3 winters we have used our chains absolutely zero times, despite nearly every trip with our own car having heavy snowfall in resort. Only bad weather trip by hire car we have done recently was from Geneva, and the car was equipped with winter tyres. We didn't need to put the snow chains on despite some of the worst driving conditions we have experienced, and the car being an automatic Astra. It was just as well really, as for the first time ever we did not have snow chains in the boot, only we had not realised.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I suppose whatever equipment one has while skiing in the Alps is really a comforing factor. 90 to 95% of the time the road would be clear and good enough for an ordinary 2-wheel drive car to travel on. If it is snowing with couple of inches or 10cm of snow on the road the snow tyres will get us through.
I have once tried to come out of a car park in Flaine and the snow was deep enough for the RAV4 to "float" on it. It was a bit of struggle with snowchains fitted to the two front wheels. Other car owners chose to leave their vehicles there at that time.
Now I go with the nearest snow tyres I could get for a 4x4 and carry a set of snow chains too. The combination is just about enough for me to go anywhere in the Alps in the winter time. There will be situation the snow could be so bad that the gendarmes would simply close the road.
Ultimately one could get a 4x4 with the biggest wheels with snow tyres (for higher ground clearance) and fit chain to every corner. The low range gear and lockable differentials should make the vehicle among the last that gets stuck in the snow. It all cost money and it is just the comfort factor that may not be needed in practice for most of the time.
In early years I travelled frequently the Col de Forclaz, between Martigny and Chamonix, on 2WD cars with snow chains. By the time we hit Martigny after 600miles drive from the Channel it would be very late in the night. I did managed in the end to get through the mountain pass in every trip, often seeing only a couple cars in between. If I could help it I would prefer a safer, easier and worry-free option on a large 4x4 fitted with newish all season or snow tyres.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lizzard, Right thanks snow tyres it is then. Helen Beaumont, Thanks, I take it you have to order chains from the car hire company?- will have a wee look at the various websites.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ruthie, ... also do a search here on snowHeads - there are car hire discount and promotional codes listed in various Threads which offer good reductions. Hire rates will be expensive at Christmas.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saikee, There seem to be plenty of winter tyres available in France and Switzerland if you ever need larger sizes. No idea about the UK. I have 265/65/R17.
I also have never (yet] had cause to fit chains ( the 4x4 chains were sourced in the US when I was there).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Agenterre,
Two year ago UK Pirelli brochure did not have "Scorpion ice & snow". This year it has it .
I found my older 4x4 model's 265/70R16 featured there but not the current model's 285/55R18. So I enquire the cost for the older size which I keep a spare set. The Newcastle Tyre Spot does not have it in its computer system. I may get it by special delivery. I will try again when the tread of my spare set runs down.
EU may have better choices but in general the snow tyres are rarely available in the large or medium 4x4 tyre sizes. That is the evidence from all the major tyre manufacturers worldwide. If I can't get the tyre sized listed in the manufacture's web site catalog going outside UK will not help. Snow tyres are widely avaliable for passenger cars and to certain extent to trucks but the 4x4 market is too small but have a huge size range, making it difficult for any manufacturer to cover this sector of the market.
The popularity of the European 4x4 by Audi, BMW, Volvo and Mecedes does improve the situation. Now that Renault, Nissan, Ford, Peugeot and Citreon are joining the act to bring out their 4x4 models. I suppose more 4x4 snow tyres have to be manufactured to meet the market need.
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ruthie, Fitting chains isn't hard. Pretty much every time I've needed them we've been directed into an 'Aire de Chainage' i.e. a layby specifically for fitting chains. Usually there are people around to help you. Taking a headtorch and gloves makes the process easier. Even the first time you'll have the job done in less than 20 minutes. If chains are needed (and most times they're not) the police will stop you anyway to put them on. If you are travelling late at night, don't be the one to cause a jam by pressing without chains when you need them 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Usually there are people around to help you.
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I use chains quite frequently, as I spend a lot of time in the mountains and tend to put them on whenever I'm in doubt. I've never yet found anyone to help me - maybe because I don't wait to be waved into an "aire de chainage"!
Lizzard, I believe you drive a Fiat Panda - they are fantastic in the snow - but apparently many of the bigger and heavier 4 x 4s aren't. I've seen several stuck; indeed I posted last winter about having used our Fiat Multipla to pull a socking great Porsche Carrera out of a snowdrift. There are 4 x 4s and 4 x 4s. Some are chocolate teapots, and the fact that people buy them in such numbers is testimony to some kind of collective daftness. But the Fiat Panda is terrific (at least, the old ones are, there are several round our way owned by restaurant people who need to get out and get their bread in all weathers.)
ruthie, go with the ordinary car - you'll know before you fly whether there is likely to be the sort of weather which will make it likely you'll need chains. Then have a quick practice in the car park, before you hit the snow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, i did a season a few years back and a toyota landcruiser was my wheels. it was awesome uphill or on the flat but on the one occasion when i was going downhill in heavy snow it was a bit scary. all that metal picks up a lot of momentum and 4wd and snow tyres only do so much to counteract that. i think that's the big difference between a panda and even decent big 4x4s
that said, i wouldn't have fancied a panda's chances at towing a stranded volvo out of deep snow and one or two other things i got the 'cruiser to do
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, I towed a stranded 5series BM once.. in a 4X4 Panda...in the snow.
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ski, i'd certainly go with the Panda now - diesel was Eur 0.70/l when i did my season, and that wasn't that long ago either! driving up to Alpe d'Huez from the valley in the 'cruiser would be an expensive business now!
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Usually there are people around to help you.
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I use chains quite frequently, as I spend a lot of time in the mountains and tend to put them on whenever I'm in doubt. I've never yet found anyone to help me - maybe because I don't wait to be waved into an "aire de chainage"!
Lizzard, I believe you drive a Fiat Panda - they are fantastic in the snow - but apparently many of the bigger and heavier 4 x 4s aren't. I've seen several stuck; indeed I posted last winter about having used our Fiat Multipla to pull a socking great Porsche Carrera out of a snowdrift. There are 4 x 4s and 4 x 4s. Some are chocolate teapots, and the fact that people buy them in such numbers is testimony to some kind of collective daftness. But the Fiat Panda is terrific (at least, the old ones are, there are several round our way owned by restaurant people who need to get out and get their bread in all weathers.)
ruthie, go with the ordinary car - you'll know before you fly whether there is likely to be the sort of weather which will make it likely you'll need chains. Then have a quick practice in the car park, before you hit the snow. |
I saw BMW X5s (in courchevel) looking pretty poor just getting round town with 3" or 4 " down
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dan100, friends with X5 would probably agree there. They were impressed with our X-trail in the same conditions though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| many of the bigger and heavier 4 x 4s aren't. |
If they have winter tires they are not bad in snow and have the ground clearance which is useful. They are lethal on ice because they are too heavy and often snow covers a layer of ice on roads that have some but not a huge amount of traffic (the compressed and melted snow refreezes into ice). I've seen a lot of 4x4s down ravines and in ditches.
The best vehicles for back mountain roads are light but high city cars (such as the original Panda 2x4 or 4x4) or mini vans --- such as the aforementioned kangoo. for the rest of the road network in France normal cars with chains or winter tires are sufficient.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My Peugeot Partner came with 'Conti 4X4 Contact' tyres, even though it is only 2WD. Big difference in the snow compared to the cheapy budget tyres I used to use....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, I only bought the Panda last week, haven't driven it in the snow yet. I have been running a Daihatsu Sportrak up to now.
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FAQ
