 Poster: A snowHead
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You hear people in North America talking about snowfall Sunshine-30 feet. Revvy 40-60 feet. How about European resorts, anyone got figures for those, or a place to view them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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actually Sunshine was only 24 feet this year, six feet down on their average.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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between 1883 and 1904 the average annual precipitation on Ben Nevis was over 4 meters per year…… assuming half fell as snow as the average temperature for that period was 0.3C (including summer) that would be 2m of rain plus 20m of snow 
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Summit Observatory data and reports suggest that on average more than half of the precipitation fell as snow. Put that another way over half of an average annual precipitation total of 4400mm equates to an average snow fall >72feet !! It's the half that falls as in rain that is the problem! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Rossfra8, Darn good question. I don't have an answer, just hear stories like Zurs gets more snow than most resorts, Sestriere gets less than other places in the Milky Way, etc.
But it is a good question. Why don't European ski hills publish similar data to North American? I have no idea, but there must be a reason?
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Not sure if publishing 40 ft or whatever means that much. As a marketing tool, it sounds great as a figure, but presumably it is over a defined period of time... so one week 3 ft fell, but other weeks nothing fell... Then 6 feet came along and bumped up the annual/seasons figure. In the alpes, they'll give you a snow depth measured at a given time...which do you prefer or believe..??
I suspect both have a degree of 'license' and both can mean good things and if that is all you have to go on, then they are better than nothing. The best thing is that on here (  ) you are likley to have someone on the ground or has been recently and they can tell you far far better than the TO what the condiitons are like.. IMV.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
I'd say the bigger problem is that the nearest lift is on Aanoch Mor 
*OFF TOPIC* |
Yes, I look at that North face from Aanoch Mor and drool. However more energetic people such as my friend Andrew who I skied with a month ago at Nevis Range (he is Jungle on Winterhighlands) do ski it (after climbing up). I couldn't find a good winter photo - when the slopes can be huge sheets of white - but this shows the north face and I think he skied the sunlit central gulley and the one to the right of it (hidden by the start of the right hand bulge) - both with extremely steep starts. I gather the gulleys are numbered 1 - 5 - the bigest is obvious on the left, nearer the peak.
Yes, how much snow is left?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have never heard European resorts mention total snowfall (which I assume is the sum of all new powder falls as measured on each individual day). I imagine this would favour places which get lots of light powder - which would not suit Europe where the snow tends to be heavier in consistency.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 18-05-08 23:27; edited 1 time in total
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Those total snowfall figures always strike me as a bit meaningless. Even what's there on the day is not too important. There was shedloads of snow around in late April this year; but it was the state of the top 25cms which determined what it was like to ski.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I disagree to a point...base totals are very important for steep, off piste.
There are lines in Jackson (and everywhere, really) that can only be skied with a certain amount of base. Having snow totals (and base totals) is important in this regard.
There were lines skied here this year tht haven't been skiable since 96!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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But even on steep, rocky, territory surely what matters is what's there, not what's fallen and been blown away, melted away or evaporated away? Obviously the two are related, but the wider conditions (especially wind) and elapsed time will make a huge difference.
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Base depths can give a well-aquainted user of steep terrain vital information, at a glance (at home, on the computer).
For example, I know that if Grand Targhee doesn't have at least a 70" base, it's not worth my effort to bootpack out to Steve Baugh, it will simply not ski. I don't have to look.
At 100" though, I know it will go.
Just an observation.
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You know it makes sense.
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| jacksonholerider wrote: |
For example, I know that if Grand Targhee doesn't have at least a 70" base, it's not worth my effort to bootpack out to Steve Baugh, it will simply not ski. I don't have to look.
At 100" though, I know it will go.
Just an observation. |
Would that 70" be current base depth or accumulated depth so far that season?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Current base depth.
Daily snowfall totals are really more useful to gauge whick skis/boards to bring, and avalanche potential.
And yearly snowfall totals, well they are for waving around your Johnson!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^^^^ding ding!^^^
(or last year, last decade, etc...)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Once again, it is in order to determine where to go.
Higher snowfall totals=more open terrain, period.
If Cham had 300cm total, and La Grave had 600cm, where would you go, given identical current depth?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think the problem with quoting depths at least in Europe is that the numbers are given out by the tourist office. There often seems to be a fair bit of fiddling of the numbers. I have been in resorts when there has been a thaw on and the numbers even at the bottom have remained static.
I tend to use the numbers as an indication of how any season is looking within a resort to previous occasions rather than trying to compare resorts, though I do this a little I am sceptical about the meaning.
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Dypcdiver, if Resort X (no pun intended) is identical to resort Y but resort Y averages 30 feet a year to X's 15feet where would you book? Where do you have a higher chance of getting powder? Where is probably going to have better conditions?
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Since the advent of the internet, I check before I go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dypcdiver, A lot of people don't really have the choice of booking at the last minute.
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| Dypcdiver wrote: |
| Since the advent of the internet, I check snowfall totals before I go. |
And there we have it, Boys and Girls.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, I tend to check regularly before going and check previous snow-depth records when considering a resort. The only thing different here is we don't have the yearly snowfall totals. I can see it could be useful, though, in comparing resorts you haven't been to.
jacksonholerider, I was impressed by the avalanche danger levels, presented at different heights and morning / afternoon. That is better than I have seen over here, generally available. It could be, though, that I've not looked in the right place. I'm especially impressed you get so much detail, given that most people ski inbounds over there and I imagine only out of bounds skiers would be much affected (?).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Off topic
jacksonholerider (or anyone else), can you suggest a cheapish place to stay in Teton Village next season - if there is such a thing? Everything looks very expensive. We will be a group of (probably) 6 staying for (probably) 9 nights. Would we be better off with a condo? (I'm a bit unclear about what condos are - I'm not sure if we have an equivalent).
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| snowball wrote: |
| I'm especially impressed you get so much detail, given that most people ski inbounds over there and I imagine only out of bounds skiers would be much affected (?). |
Then you don't understand Jackson!
There are literally hundreds of skiers that go out of the gates, up on the Pass, in the Park, Backcountry skiing is HUUUGE here. Not to mention snowmobiling. We lose 3-6 people every year. I have personally lost 9 friends/aquantances to Avies. It is no joke here...probably one of the few things us Mt. Rats take seriously.
TV=no cheap options. Especially now that Hostal X is shuttered. (rip, good freind)
Your best bet is to rent a condo in The Aspens...I will get you more details later, I've gotta go bike!
Seriously, your group can do O.K., with a condo rental...More details to come. (next years prices are currently in flux, given the economic factors in play...don't count on anything being 'up' or, possibly, 'down'.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 19-05-08 6:52; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Actual and average season totals (with a +/- SD if possible) give me a general idea of what to expect any season, not just the epic ones.
Actual and average monthly totals (with a +/- SD if possible) give me a general idea of when I should visit during the season - lots of snow events for powder, low snow events for touring for example.
Same goes for base depths.
Actual daily new snow and base depths so I can get excited or anxious prior to the visit or choose a trip on a whim.
The more the better as far as I'm concerned. Information that is 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jacksonholerider, Who gave you permission to mess with my post? or is it the norm over your side of the the pond.
(dam colonials)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowball wrote: |
| I have never heard European resorts mention total snowfall |
A) The Alps don't get as much snow as you might think.
B) The Alpine resorts are not very good at marketing.
Lech and Zurs are the snowiest major resorts in the Alps. They get roughly 600 - 700cm up top in a good season.
Most popular resorts, such as Val d'Isere, receive around 300 - 600cm per season.
This is less than the stations found on the left side of North America. For example, Whistler averages about 1000cm on the summit.
The Americans are not afraid to hype up or exaggerate the stats and let everyone know how much snow they get. But the sniffy Europeans think that's a bit vulgar and they don't really publicize it.
Of course, the upside to infrequent snow is regular sun. St Moritz in Switzerland is sunny for 88% of the entire year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks jacksonholerider. Since I doubt we will hire a car I thought Tetton Village would be best but I don't really know. We will be doing the Steep and Deep Camp by the way: one of our group did it before.
Sorry for the Off-Topic folks. jacksonholerider, perhaps you could PM me if you have more info.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dypcdiver, but if you have to pick a resort in october and you are not going till january, current snowfall won;t be reflective on jan's weather so you are going to go where averages more snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Rossfra8, I can see what you are trying to say, but what you or anyone should do is check the historical snow depths. Please note I have not said TOTAL snow fall, because that is irrelevant. For some bizzare reason in the USA they include snow that falls at any time of the year and melts before the season starts. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dypcdiver, snow depths over a certain point are irrelevant. Why have 250cm depth when 150 covers everything. I'm more interested in how deep the fresh is not whats underneath (unless it is minimal and thus rocky).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dypcdiver wrote: |
| Rossfra8, I can see what you are trying to say, but what you or anyone should do is check the historical snow depths. Please note I have not said TOTAL snow fall, because that is irrelevant. For some bizzare reason in the USA they include snow that falls at any time of the year and melts before the season starts. |
That's not true.
pretty much every resort only list from first snowfall until the last day the lifts roll. However many only list from chairlift-to chairlift daily totals. Just check the resort websites.
(as many, many people hike before the lifts are on, the fall daily and total snowfalls are relevant)
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Just thought it was an interesting point to make that N American resorts use this often and other resorts don't tend to publicize the figure. Just assumed it was down to the fact they would not be able to compete with N.A for snowfall.
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In my experience, Europe can't compete with much of N America in both total snowfall and for snow events (read powder days).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mike Pow, that may be true (on average) but because the lift accessed off piste is so much larger you can go on finding fresh tracks for much longer. Somewhere like St Anton, unless there is a bad thaw or high winds, you can expect to make fresh tracks for a week or more after the last snowfall if you know where to look.
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I'll take my medicine daily not weekly thanks
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FAQ
. I don't see any relevance in quoting the season's total snowfall. It is about as descriptive as "packed powder" 