 Poster: A snowHead
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I have just done a word search and not found any reference to this new gear. So I have a question, has anyone used this new style ABS bag this season. It came out earlier in the year. The airbag is inclosed around the straps and behind the neck, looks very strong, has a refillable canister and can be carried on planes easily.
The link to there web site is: http://www.snowpulse.ch/v3/en/index.php
If anyone has used one of these please comment? If you have also used the ABS please compare them. What do you think?
In Switzerland they cost about the same, so that is not a factor. Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Looking at the pics, it looks like this is one we were chatting about with our local shop when Rutschen got his ABS. The proprietor (who is a fully-qualified high mountain guide) is very dubious about the safety of having the bag inflate behind the head (and he has had his hand on one) - IIRC he feels there's a risk of it turning you face to the snow because the airbag is lighter than your head? But I could be misremembering
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| The proprietor (who is a fully-qualified high mountain guide) is very dubious about the safety of having the bag inflate behind the head (and he has had his hand on one) - IIRC he feels there's a risk of it turning you face to the snow because the airbag is lighter than your head? But I could be misremembering |
can't see how this would be more of a problem with the snowpulse than it would be with the ABS pack.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Presumably because if you have no flotation right by the head there's a 50/50 chance of being "right way up" i.e. not being smothered by being face down but if you have flotation behind your head that is less dense than your head then your head will be down i.e. snow side not air side? Speculating here...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eng_ch, but with the ABS the bags are on your back which presumably gives a similar effect. again, just speculating!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Arno, no, they come out either side of you
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| ...no flotation... |
These bags don't rely on floatation.
They rely on a property of fluid (I think) dynamics whereby larger particles / objects have a tendency to be displaced upwards by smaller particles and will therefore tend to rise closer to the surface. It's a bit counter-intuative. There's a better explanation of the principle somewhere on the ABS website.
I must admit that I'm more attracted to the SnowPulse than the ABS bag - simply on the basis that it offers both face / head / neck protection and it also deflates to create an airspace around the head 90 seconds after deployment. So, if you're buried there's a much better chance of surviving.
Personally, I'd happily swap airspace for any increased risk of neck injury from deployment. Which is probably minimal anyway when compared to the risk of having a large body of snow hit an unsupported neck - which is the alternative.
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why is it an easier to get onto a plane compared to ABS??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| eng_ch wrote: |
| ...no flotation... |
These bags don't rely on floatation.
They rely on a property of fluid (I think) dynamics whereby larger particles / objects have a tendency to be displaced upwards by smaller particles |
And a huge balloon is a larger object than a head so the effect surely would be for the balloon to be on top with the head underneath - wouldn't it?
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| And a huge balloon is a larger object than a head so the effect surely would be for the balloon to be on top with the head underneath - wouldn't it? |
You and the balloon are one "particle".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PhillipStanton,
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| These bags don't rely on floatation |
The explanation offered by ABS is that the bags increase your volume and hence reduce your density. If your density is lower than the overall density of the snow piling down the mountain with you then you stay on top. So the avalanche can be treated as a fluid. Seems to work, so I guess they are probably right.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't claim to be an expert but I'm sure one of the claims made for the abs is that the bags will be visible on the surface even if the vic is face down still in the snow. There are vids out there showing dummy simulations.
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I think we need to look at the ways that lifejackets are constructed, by law they have to float a person face up. I see a similarity in design with the snowpulse.
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You know it makes sense.
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I looked at these bags whilst in Verbier, this is the base for the company that designed them. They are designed to keep you face up as a life jacket does. They give protection to the neck and head as well as the upper body. They can be deflated and then refilled so taking them on a plane is possible. They come in two sizes freeride basic and 30lt version. One problem may be the release system. You need to pull a cord. They are looking into this for next season. Price is similar to ABS. Guides in Verbier I spoke with seem to like them. I might even buy one.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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cheers Jason, but I still don't get what makes them more suitable for airline travel vs the ABS???
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Poster: A snowHead
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kitenski, I think it's the fact that you can de-gas the Snowpulse's cannister before flying & then re-fill in resort which AFAIK you can't do with the ABS cannister.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eng_ch, If you look at the picture tho it seems that there is greater flotation infront of your head around cheeks and down to top of chest. There should be fairly easy tests to verify 'which way up'
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| PhillipStanton wrote: |
| eng_ch wrote: |
| ...no flotation... |
These bags don't rely on floatation.
They rely on a property of fluid (I think) dynamics whereby larger particles / objects have a tendency to be displaced upwards by smaller particles and will therefore tend to rise closer to the surface. It's a bit counter-intuative. There's a better explanation of the principle somewhere on the ABS website.
I must admit that I'm more attracted to the SnowPulse than the ABS bag - simply on the basis that it offers both face / head / neck protection and it also deflates to create an airspace around the head 90 seconds after deployment. So, if you're buried there's a much better chance of surviving.
Personally, I'd happily swap airspace for any increased risk of neck injury from deployment. Which is probably minimal anyway when compared to the risk of having a large body of snow hit an unsupported neck - which is the alternative. |
You are talking about 'Kinetic Sieving' which is about filling voids. As the dry frictionless avalanche moves downslope under gravity where voids appear in the flow these voids are filled by smaller particles. This has the effect of large particles ending up at the top and smaller particles graded below. The theory doesn't work so well as the avalanche becomes more energetic as collisions will cause a mixing effect.
Anyhow Reverse Grading, certainly occurs in nature as i have seen it in geological deposits from mud flows, pyroclastic flows, debris flows etc.
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