 Poster: A snowHead
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I have ordered snow tyres on the car hire from Geneva airport. Anyone used them and / or know what the difference is between them and chains ? How effective are they, especially given the forecast for the next week ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dsoutar, Cars from the swiss side will have them fitted 'by default'. You will still need to carry chains, but may get away without using them if the roads are relatively clear. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They make a huge difference in terms of traction. They significantly reduce the number of times that you will need to fit chains, although there might still be times when chains are required so you must carry a set.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have used snow tyres in about 1 and 1/2 foot of fresh snow and the car drove normally. They will also give you better grip on hard packed snow. Snow chains are a last resort in most places now but if you are travelling to one of the higher resorts then you may need them as well. I was stopped by the police on the way to Flaine last year to check if we had snow tyres or chains, they were happy with just tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One can of course find out when the snow chains are needed when the snow tyres are not going anywhere.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What do people actually mean by snow tyres? Winter tyres? Or the ones with spikes?
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eng_ch, winter ones, or a variation on that theme. I think spiked tyres are illegal in some countries. What you really want are the type James Bond had in one or the other film; press a button and *clunk* - out pop spikes from previously normal tyres! Just the job.
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| What do people actually mean by snow tyres? Winter tyres? Or the ones with spikes? |
Most people mean "winter tyres" when they refer to "snow tyres". A "winter tyre" this side of the pond typically means a "snow tire" over there. As true snow tyres and spikes are not supposed to be used on dry european roads I think this thread is about winter tyres.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| I have used snow tyres in about 1 and 1/2 foot of fresh snow and the car drove normally. |
yes, but I have used snow tyres on 1 inch of slush, and had to put chains on as well, to get up a moderate hill; it all depends! Fresh snow is often easier than slush or ice.
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We have had to fit snow chains to our 4 x 4 which has very good snow ( not winter but snow) tyres today because there is a layer of very slippery snow underneath all the new snow. Going uphill not a problem, going downhill a nightmare , no grip. So bear in mind, you may get up but getting down may be your issue. There is about 60cm snow fallen in the last 12 hours. Great skiing though!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Flocon Ange, Welcome to Snowheads
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you Patch
I have read posts for ages and ages now - about 2 yrs, but never replied to any yet!
So thanks for the welcome
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You know it makes sense.
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richmond, DB, thanks, I know it crops up so often but I had to ask - I've always understood "snow tyres" to be the spiked ones so get confused when people talk about what are known in German-speaking countries as winter tyres but call them snow tyres. I'm a bear of little brain 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Flocon Ange, very useful post, thanks. Some 4 x 4 drivers think they're invincible. We pulled a Porsche Cayenne out of a snowdrift with our Fiat Multipla in January - and the road was almost flat. There's a long downhill bend near here which people (including drivers of 4 x 4s) shoot over, into the trees, with monotonous regularity once there's snow on the road; the local garage have sited themselves nearby and make a fortune pulling them out, with a breakdown truck pulling obliquely across the road, to get a straight pull, and holding up all the traffic for ages.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, Porsche drivers are in a league of their own; many would be able to put their car in a ditch on a straight, dry and ice and snow free road.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fat and low profile tyre able to do 180mph on paved road are lethal on snow, regardless if it is a 4x4 or not. It is the wrong equipment for a snow surface.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's an Audi "parked" on a very steep slope, just off the roadside, near Les Allues, at the moment - been there since last night.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
| Most people mean "winter tyres" when they refer to "snow tyres". A "winter tyre" this side of the pond typically means a "snow tire" over there. As true snow tyres and spikes are not supposed to be used on dry european roads I think this thread is about winter tyres. |
I thought studded tyres were allowed in France as long as you had a sticker and a lower top speed. It may have changed now. Certainly they use them in Finland regardless of the road conditions for the duration of winter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, 
this guy was in luck, four elderly Brits pulled him out, free!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| peura wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| Most people mean "winter tyres" when they refer to "snow tyres". A "winter tyre" this side of the pond typically means a "snow tire" over there. As true snow tyres and spikes are not supposed to be used on dry european roads I think this thread is about winter tyres. |
I thought studded tyres were allowed in France as long as you had a sticker and a lower top speed. It may have changed now. Certainly they use them in Finland regardless of the road conditions for the duration of winter. |
Yes it looks like they are legal in France as you say but illegal in some other European countries
| Quote: |
Austria:
Winter tires are not in general mandatory. They can however be required when specified by traffic signs. Roads with such signs may not be travelled by vehicles without winter equipment - including snow chains as well. The required tread depth is four millimetres. A tire with a shallower tread depth is considered to be a summer tire. Studs are permitted on vehicles up to 3.5 t; speed limits apply.
Belgium / Netherlands / Luxemburg:
Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxemburg are not exactly renowned for winter sports. Nevertheless, vehicles should be equipped with winter tires: In the hilly regions along the German border, snow is nearly a certainty, and in the other regions of our neighbours to the west, temperatures below freezing are common in winter. Without winter tires, the braking distances become longer and longer. Winter tires are not mandatory, studs are forbidden.
Czech Republic:
There are no laws mandating winter tires in the Czech Republic. But driving in the winter wonderland of the Czech Republic without winter tires is not recommended, as there is no substitute for the good cornering stability and grip when starting up that such tires provide.
Denmark:
The Danes are not required to have winter tires, but a large percentage do change their tires. Studded tires are permitted, but are quite uncommon in road traffic. The cold temperatures alone are reason enough to recommend the use of winter tires when travelling to wintry Denmark.
Estonia:
Winter tires are mandatory from 1 December to the end of February. This period can however start earlier or end later, as specified in response to prevailing weather conditions. Studs are not permitted.
Finland: In Finland, winter tires are mandatory from 1 December through the end of February. Since 1999, this also applies to vehicles from other countries.
France:
In France winter tires are not mandatory. They may however be required for mountain roads when indicated by signs.Snow chains may be obligatory for certain stretches.Studded tires can be fit on cars as well (from the beginning of November to the end of March, with speed limits of 90 km/h out of town, 50 km/h in town).The car must have a sticker indicating that it is equipped with studded tires.Despite the fact that winter tires are not mandatory, drivers should by no means do without, especially in the French Alps.
Italy:
The use of winter tires is not a requirement, although they can be specified for certain stretches. There are no specific regulations regarding the use of snow chains. Whoever wants to drive on studded tires must comply with the speed limits (90 km/h out of town and 50 km/h in town). Never start off on a winter holiday in Italy without winter tires.
Latvia:
Like in Finland, winter tires are mandatory from 1 December through the end of February in Latvia.
Lithuania:
Winter tires are obligatory here from 1 November to 1 April.
Norway:
Foreign vehicles in Norway are not required to have winter tires, although it is highly recommended. For Norwegian vehicles, winter tires are obligatory. Motorists are all required to always see to it that their vehicles are equipped with appropriate tires for the weather conditions, which goes as far as requiring snow chains where necessary. So there´s no getting around winter tires even in Norway
Poland:
Whoever drives to Poland in winter is not required to have winter tires. However, since there is hardly any snow removal service in the countryside, driving without reliable winter tires is a major risk.
Slovenia:
Winter tires are obligatory from 15 November to 15 March. This means either winter tires or radial tires with a minimum tread depth of four millimetres. But according to Slovenian law, two winter tires per vehicle are sufficient.Experts however highly recommend that winter tires be fit on all wheels.
Sweden:
Foreign vehicles are not required to have winter tires in the cold time of the year in Sweden as well. Winter tires are however mandatory for Swedish vehicles. But driving to the land of elks without winter tires is not recommended since sand or salt is not spread on many roads.
Switzerland:
Winter tires are not in general mandatory in Switzerland as well. However, winter tires are recommended since if there is an accident which is proven to have been caused by summer tires, the driver may be held jointly liable, which can have significant consequences. In such cases, Swiss insurance policies provide only partial coverage, if any at all. Snow chains and studs are optional. They may however be mandated by signs (also on all-wheel-drive vehicles). Studs are not permitted on most motorways in Switzerland. Vehicles may be equipped with studded tires only from November 1st to March 31st and must observe speed limits of 80 km/h out of town and 50 km/h in town. It is therefore a good idea to use winter tires in Switzerland. |
Source -
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/news/archive/pr_2004_09_28_winterreifenpflicht%20europa_en.html
Should of said central european, I know they use studs in Scandinavian countries but was under the impression it was because the roads were permanently covered with snow / ice in the winter. Snow chains require a lower speed and shouldn't be used on dry roads as they can damage the car / tyres - I'd assume the same was true for studs/spikes. Doubt anyone commuting to France, Switzerland or Austria would use studs as a top speed of 90 kmh (56 mph) would make it a long loud journey.
Found some more info from the AA on winter tyres .....
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-and-snow-chains.html
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| DB wrote: |
| Should of said central european, I know they use studs in Scandinavian countries but was under the impression it was because the roads were permanently covered with snow / ice in the winter. Snow chains require a lower speed and shouldn't be used on dry roads as they can damage the car / tyres - I'd assume the same was true for studs/spikes. |
I knew you meant central europe, I was just being a little naughty  . I think each time I've been to Nordic countries the main roads have had bare tarmac showing, mostly just where the studs have worn away the snow. The side roads have all been snow covered. However, that's in the ski resorts, I'd expect this year there were a lot of people in their south (there hasn't been much lowland snow in the south of the Finland for example) using studded tyres on bare tarmac since winter tyres are mandatory and most would have studded tyres. I know they are trying to reduce the number of cars with studded tyres with surcharges in towns, for example Oslo. There were some with friction tyres in the ski resorts though, most notably Åre in Sweden. I'd expect that these would be the soft low-speed type (that I've seen referred to as "Nordic" type) rather than the normal speed rating type (that I've seen referred to as "Central European" type) - though I didn't look at all of them  . As far as I know Nordic countries don't give vehicles using studded tyres a different speed limit to friction ones, though speed limits are lowered for the winter generally and aren't typically as high as central Europe in the even in the summer.
| Quote: |
| Doubt anyone commuting to France, Switzerland or Austria would use studs as a top speed of 90 kmh (56 mph) would make it a long loud journey. |
also, probably scary since I don't think they grip as well to bare tarmac as friction tyres and anyway they wouldn't be legal to use in the UK to drive to the crossing point (as far as I can tell).
Just had a look at your AA links and note that chains are not required to be carried in Finland but are in Norway and Sweden. People I've spoken to in Norway suggest that hardly anyone (local) carries (much less uses) snow chains for cars. Although I did see a lorry with them on making it the only Nordic country in which I've seen snow chains on something other than a tractor/snowplough.
(I'm trying to avoid mentioning spikes since the only ones I seen a picture of would, I think, be illegal on public roads)
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