 Poster: A snowHead
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after organising ski trips for groups of 20 for the last 7 or 8 years and worrying about the lack of snow non stop for weeks before hand, i have decided to go to north america next year. however, from looking at prices it looks like i could do 2 trips to european resorts for the same money without the jet lag. are the resorts and the snow good enought to justify the extra expence and the travel? and where should i go and why?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| singer wrote: |
| are the resorts and the snow good enought to justify the extra expence and the travel? |
IMO, yes. But it depends what you're looking for. If you want endless miles of smooth, groomed runs then you'll struggle to find them over the pond. If you want posh shops and celebs everywhere, Europe is often a better bet. But if you want powder, steeps, trees, challenging skiing and deserted trails, head west.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not too many resorts have ski-in/ski-out: the dreaded bus!
Resorts are in general not very large: easy to get bored.
N. America cost twice as much as Europe. Judging from what you dislike about Chamonix, I doubt you'll like N. America twice as much.
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If you get bored skiing North America it's time to hang up those skis and find something else to do
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, Depends where you go. You ever skied Hunter Mountain, NY ? (Bet you haven't) Not the most extensive skiing in the world...
singer, why would you not have to worry about the snow if you go to NA? Conditions can be just as variable there as they are in Europe. And if there's no snow, you'll have paid twice as much to have 20 whinging mates whinging at you.
Easier solution? Get someone else to make the decision.
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singer,
What skiing level are people in the group (e.g. blue/reds blacks on piste, off piste?)
How important is Apres Ski?
Very few resorts get great conditions every year but if you are looking for snow reliability, piste skiing and good apres ski then the following Austrian resorts are worth considering ......
Sölden
Obergurgl
Ischgl
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| Quote: |
judging from what you dislike about Chamonix, I doubt you'll like N. America twice as much
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Spot on! Chamonix is without a shadow of a doubt one of the best ski areas in the world, but you must have a car to make it worthwhile, and the same thing probably applies to the US. Go to Salt Lake City or Colorado or Lake Tahoe for 2 wks, ski a different area each day and it'll be an awesome holiday.
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Conditions can be just as variable there as they are in Europe
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hmm, don't know about that David Murdoch, as long as you avoid the east coast I would have thought you can forget about snow reliability issues in the US?
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singer, no, the resorts aren't worth it. Stick to Europe, it's far better.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
uktrailmonster, Depends where you go. You ever skied Hunter Mountain, NY ? (Bet you haven't) Not the most extensive skiing in the world...
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Surely that's the NA equivalent of skiing in Scotland?
I'm obviously talking about the West Coast resorts.
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My experience is limited to BC but based on that and what the locals/seasonnaires say, I'd say NA is faaaaaar less busy. I was here over NY and they were complaining about how busy it was here in Fernie....busy?! Bl**dy hell, it was like a late January day in the PdS!!!!! Also, I've never, ever skied snow as light or deep as here. The ethos is different to most resorts in Europe too: the whole mountain is open, little is pisted and the terrain is consistently steep and challenging. Of course, there are exceptions to these "rules" in both Europe and NA...
The jet lag is a proper bummer and IMO, any less than 10 days isn't worth it. Fresh snow is not guranteed: Fernie went for 3 weeks without freshies before I arrived  However, the base is VERY deep. Here it averages 29ft of snow a season, I think that's a lot more than most Alpine resorts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Plake, I just said conditions can be as variable. And they can. Look at the snow records. Do a search on here using keywords "Whistler" and "rain" for example...
Plus variable conditions need not mean variable snow levels. Storms, cloud, high winds have similar effects in NA as they do here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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singer, Europe for me too.... I've been to Mammoth, Tahoe, Stowe and Killington, and although I enjoyed the holiday, the hotels and the hospitality, as a hardcore skiing holiday those resorts don't compare to Europe.
That's from a piste skiing p.o.v. I should add.
I got jetlag bad back from the West Coast too - that really sucks - but some seem immune from it. It helps if you're one of those annoying people who can sleep for the whole flight
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I can't think of a single reason for not trying North America. If you don't like it, don't go again.
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You know it makes sense.
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How about Chamonix? Great skiing, well linked skiing and hot chicks...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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parlor, and cheap beer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| singer wrote: |
| are the resorts and the snow good enought to justify the extra expence and the travel? |
IMO, yes. But it depends what you're looking for. If you want endless miles of smooth, groomed runs then you'll struggle to find them over the pond. If you want posh shops and celebs everywhere, Europe is often a better bet. But if you want powder, steeps, trees, challenging skiing and deserted trails, head west. |
If you want powder, longer steeps, longer tree runs, much bigger vertical, massively challenging skiing then head to Europe and hire a decent guide!!
If you want short steep pitches, "safe" in bounds skiing, lower vertical, higher altitude resorts or indeed just want to try it, head West 
regards,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
I just said conditions can be as variable. And they can. Look at the snow records. Do a search on here using keywords "Whistler" and "rain" for example...
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Whistler, being a coastal resort, can suffer from rain at times but it's not typical of most other Canadian resorts further inland. One of the many reasons we go to Canada for our main ski holidays is that we have to take our holidays over Christmas and early March. We've had some dire experiences in Europe at these times, but Western Canada has consistently had superb snow. The other main reasons to go are the friendly atmosphere, spacious accommodation and total lack of crowds, especially if you avoid popular TO destinations like Whistler.
Places to consider IMO are (in no particular order) Banff / Lake Louise, Big White / Silver Star, Fernie. I'd hesitate to recommend Whistler, not because of the rain, but due to crowds. Although by European standards it's still superb and the skiing is first class. Forget about all the Eastern resorts if you want the best chance of quality snow.
Europe is no doubt one of the best places in the world to ski, but so is NA and it offers a whole different experience. Anyone who's serious about their skiing should try NA at least once.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Anyone who's serious about their skiing should try NA at least once.
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The key is in the "serious" part.
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I've always had a very jolly time whenever I've been to N.America to ski. The apres may not reach the pavement pizza levels of some of our more lively Euro resorts (although Breckenridge came close), but there's plenty of fun to be had on and off the slopes (if you want it; fun is overrated).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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singer, The first thing you should do when considering skiing in North America is to try and forget European skiing. You should put it right to the back of your mind and think of discovering a whole new skiing world in another continent. If you have never skied in N.A yet wondered what it would be like to ski it, then the only effective way to find out is to find out yourself by first hand experience. It's common knowledge that N.A skiing does not suit all skiers. Yet on the other hand there are a generous percentage of skiers that will only ski in N.A. and it's fair to say that the editors of the two most popular read ski mags, prefer to do their skiing in North America. The point I'm trying to make is that N.A skiing may well perfectly suit your requirements and enhance your enjoyment of skiing. You won't know that unless you take the plunge and cross the Atlantic to discover this new world. Discover a whole new different culture in their skiing; the giant mountain log cabins faring western grub, massive barbecues and gospel singing at the foot of the pistes, Grinning guys with their huge backpacks dispensing fresh coffee at the bottom of ski lifts. Charming ski hosts entertaining you with useful (and some no so useful) resort information while riding the chair, waiting to be of service at the bottom of the pistes in offering to carry your skis or helping you up if wipeout. Be thrilled at skiing history; skiing through the ruins of gold mining settlements, tin mining settlements and native american settlements. Be delightfully challenged by the vast snowy wilderness of backcountry skiing, the awesome canyon-like snow bowls, and glade skiing through steep forestry over deep, dry fluffy snow.
If skiing in California don't miss out on visiting San Fransisco and dine in the famous Fisherman's Wharf, see the infamous alacatraz and walk across the great Golden Gate. See China Town and ride the quaint trams.
Splash out at Lake Tahoe's Casinos and tour the site of the original Bonanza ranch in nearby Nevada. If skiing in Utah, visiting the mormon temple in Salt Lake City is a must.
And if N.A skiing is not for you - well, at least you can say you've skied in the states and had the opportunity to experience a little of america. The choice is yours.
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red 27, Nope - those resorts wouldn't compare to Europe... But Vail and associated resorts, The four hills of aspen, Utah, or JH would do,
kitenski, I have had more powder and more challenging skiing in N America than Europe - even with guide,. Still love both though.
singer, Nowhere is snow sure, but the resorts in the Rockies are often whingeing about a bad year when they have snow conditions that would make much of Europe very happy. I wouldn;t make whistler or Breck my first choices though.
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| Quote: |
How about Chamonix? Great skiing, well linked skiing and hot chicks...
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why the cheap shots against singer - is it any wonder that some people dont bother posting here too often?
so he didnt like chamonix? why do some people take such exception to that? - its his opinion ffs
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S Neal,
thats sounds awesome - which resorts would you recommend for someone looking to take the plung for the forst time - have to say i do like the look of whistlker and mixing it with a city break to vancouver
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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nick0861, Vancouver is a great city, and Whistler is probably the closest thing to Euro skiing (both the good and the bad) that you'll find in North America.
You might want to consider (in no particular order):
Jackson Hole - not much near by, but every skier should go there at least once in their life.
Winter Park - close to Denver (1-1.5 hours from the airport), excellent mogul skiing, good ski school, great adaptive program
Vail - big by US standards, slightly prettier than La Daille for architecture. Plenty to do.
Aspen - not as expensive as you might think. Fly to Aspen and stay in Snowmass. (I did a report which is in the Apres Zone of my trip there in January)
Park City - great skiing and a good town with a lot of options for going out in the evenings
Snowbird - go there to ski. 500 inches of snow per year means it's deep. Go in to Salt Lake City (20 minutes away) if you want to do a lot of shopping.
Heavenly - the Neavda border is right beside the resort, so you can hit the casinos if you want. The views of Lake Tahoe are right up there with Lake Como or the best Switzerland has to offer.
Big Sky - it's big. It's quiet.
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nick0861, None of that New World pioneering stuff left in Whistler anymore. It's a large commercial, international resort incorporating some of the best and worst aspects of the big Euro resorts. Having said that, Whistler is still great and Vancouver is a nice city to visit. But if you want to sample more NA culture, consider somewhere like Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, Silver Star, Fernie, Jackson Hole etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| nick0861 wrote: |
| so he didnt like chamonix? why do some people take such exception to that? - its his opinion ffs |
People who don't like Chmonix tend not to like N.A too much.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc, so that's why I like Chamonix? Sunday in the Grands Montets reminded me strongly of Solitude, UT. Quiet, fresh snow, trees, gullies, steeps, marvellous.
S Neal, do you work for the US Tourist Board?
nick0861, Can't add much to WTFH's comments. My bro likes Breckenridge as it was great for his kids. What sort of skiing are you looking for? Oh, and you need to be a little crafty about travelling and logistics. Avoid 6 hour layovers in Houston for example (seemed like a not-so-terrible-idea at the time). Note also that NA topography is often more akin to Chamonix than to 3Vs. I.e. if you ski Utah, stay in Park City and don't ski locally every day you're looking at a 30-40 min drive to get around each way. It's worth it IMHO and not such a chore - but it's not quite ski-in/ski-out.
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nick0861, I agree with WTFH and I especially agree with ukrailmonster about Whistler. But a coupla points about good ole Whistler. Because of it's close proximity to the Pacific Ocean, precipitation is always lurking in the horizon whether it be rain or snow. Quite often it's a bit of both. So if you're a fair weather skier you might find yourself craving for a dose of vitamin D. Also the queues at the Whistler gondola in the morning can be horrific. It makes the queues in the scottish resorts at weekends look tiny. And when you finally do get the gondola, by the time you reach the top, it's time to start considering where to stop for lunch.
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You know it makes sense.
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bloxy
bloxy
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I have skied West USA for the last 12 years or so. Much prefer it to France. Better deeper snow cover, more reliable snow cover (important if you have to book 5 months in advance), better service, better apartments, In bounds skiing means huge off piste areas all avy controlled and you can still venture out into the back country for even wilder off piste.
The other big plus is much less people on the slopes compared to my last two experiences in Avoriaz (now I remember why I stopped skiing in France.)
My favourites would be in order (all in the west)
1. Jackson Hole Remote, wild west feel, big area, bowls trees, steeps, bumps (in between storms), wildlife (moose, elk, bison).
2. Utah Only for the skiing. Concentrate on the Cottonwood canyons for Snowbird, Alta, Solitude and Brighton. Park City is OK for day but I wouldn't rush to get there.Canyons is OK for a visit. It's a bit odd staying near Salt Lake City as you don't really get the mountain experience.
3. Tahoe So many resorts all in one area makes it a varied trip and that lake. My favourite is Kirkwood so we usually stay in South Lake and drive over each day(not much else at Kirkwood) but the drive is stunning.
I've been to Colorado it's OK if you like molehills at 10,000ft! Short drops and rounded mountains didn't like Vail, Beaver Creek, Copper Mountain, Breckenridge was OK.
Been to Whistler, never saw it! 2 weeks of rain in the village and high wind and white out, upper lifts shut due to wind. Had fun but can't get up any enthusiasm to return.
In summary I love Jackson, the skiing the place, the wildlife, and with Yellowstone and Teton national parks, Togwotee Pass and snowmobiling and Grand Targhee and the back country. It's a pain to get to though, 2 flight minimum and 20+ hrs travelling. Will I do it again? You bet!
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Poster: A snowHead
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March 23, Whistler got 35cm of snow to the valley. Yes we CAN get rain, we CAN also get epic powder all season (like this year)
Someone mentioned it wasn't hardcore skiing enough for them in NA, and Europe was better (yet was talking about groomer skiing) LOL
If you really must stick to the groomers, AND want some hardcore stuff, I recommend Revelstoke BC. 1 klm of vertical on, black groomed runs with absolutely no flat spots, steep (for groomers) the whole way.
But the real skiing is found off-piste and Whistler generally excels at off-piste skiing. A lot of great terrain here.
So it depends what you want, groomers, yeah stay in Europe, if you prefer off-piste/exploring then NA is generally better.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bloxy, spot on - I will be off to JH for a 7th time in December.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's not as though the west coast of the US is 100% snow sure. I would just remind you all of the state of affairs in 2005 (if I remember rightly), when Whistler practically had to shut down in January, and the whole of BC, and the US west coast was simply a green field!
Steilhang, don't remind me - I was there. In fact I contributed to an article in the FT by Arnie Wilson, giving my account of that disaster! I understand the locals called it the Pineapple Express, courtesy of Hawaii. I started to mget worried when lift attendants were cheerfully giving out waterproof smocks and informing dismayed skiers that alcoholic drinks in the mountain lodges are going at half price. Water Skiing was the norm; The entire lower part of the mountain was awash with fast moving streams and rivulets. In fact, in Whistler Village, determined skiers amused themselves by attempting to ski across huge filled ponds without sinking. In the village there were quite a few skiers hobbling around on crutches after attempting to ski the rain sodden snow at Whistler summit. The surface would only allow you to ski a few yards before stopping you dead in your tracks. I had booked up for 10 days. On the fifth day I was flying back to blighty land cursing everyone and everything except God.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
| It's not as though the west coast of the US is 100% snow sure. I would just remind you all of the state of affairs in 2005 (if I remember rightly), when Whistler practically had to shut down in January, and the whole of BC, and the US west coast was simply a green field! |
Admittedly I luckily went to Lech in 2005, but have skied at Whsitler for 50 days+ in last decade, and had rain one 1 or 2 days. And that's from opening (mid-November) until early May. And I've never lined up for more than a few minutes getting out of Whistler or Blackcomb about 8.30. But if you stay in bed, well ..... there won't be any pow left for you anyway :-}
i was at Hintertux 2 weeks ago and it rained there to 2600m. Bad things happen with weather I'm afraid. Hopefully another 2005 won't happen again for a long time.
As others have said, if you just want to ski pistes/groomers, north america probably not your bag (altho grooming here is much better than Europe IMHO). If you want to play off trail, I think you'd have a lot of fun. Go somewhere big like Tahoe or Big Sky or Jackson or Vail or Snowbird/Alta or Whistler. Can't guarantee good snow, but chances are pretty darn high. Lots of pics/info on my blog (see below) on some of these places.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| singer wrote: |
| after organising ski trips for groups of 20 for the last 7 or 8 years and worrying about the lack of snow non stop for weeks before hand, i have decided to go to north america next year. however, from looking at prices it looks like i could do 2 trips to european resorts for the same money without the jet lag. are the resorts and the snow good enought to justify the extra expence and the travel? and where should i go and why? |
North Amarica wins hands down,the snow is amazing,people are friendly,food is great.I'd go for Breckenridge first time,it's a great town.
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Please ! .... by all means y'all feel free to stay on your side of the pond and let us have our unspoiled fun and little secret overhere .... we're still getting fresh powder until last week and are shredding it every day (and all without hordes of tourists) ...... Yaaaaay !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't know that much about North American skiing (going for the second time next season - Just booked Jackson Hole) but if you are trying to keep the cost down it seems like it is much cheaper to stay in a a condo (condominium) than in a Hotel. Also book your lift pass through the people you get your accommodation from - it will be much cheaper (perhaps 30% off).
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singer,
You are leaving it a bit late for a large group... or rather you should get your skates on
The more people that go to the US, the better 
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FAQ
