forgiving/unforgiving boards, what makes the difference?

A snowHead

I'm thinking of getting a new snowboard in the sales, and so am interested in clearing up some points that have puzzled me about board characteristics.

Currently I ride a Nitro Punisher, 156, mid-wide. I'm 5'10", and 74kg, so it may be a touch short, but I got it for a great discount (75% off Very Happy

) as the graphics weren't very popular and it was hard to sell (05/06 model was still in shop in Feb 07!). The exact same board is here: http://www.the-house.com/9856npm6zznitropunisher.html

Compared to friends' boards, it seems stiff. I was comparing to a friend's Ride Prophet yesterday, and there was a huge difference in tip stiffness. I don't see this as a bad thing, just an observation. I think this makes ollies, or nose/tail pressing a bit more difficult though.

Anyway, my riding is not too bad at this stage, I probably have something like 20-30 days done. I don't do any park/freestyle boarding, and don't really have any desire to. I'd like, perhaps, to be able to do some piste-tricks (beyond the waltzing/360's I can do now). I haven't been off-pisting, but I really do like going into the powder at piste-edge.

So, in general, I'd be interested in board recommendations.
But more specifically, I'd like to know what it means when people say that a board (typically a high-end board) is "unforgiving"? Is it a function of the board's stiffness, its side-cut, or something else? What does this mean for the user-experience?

A snowHead

OK maybe my question was too rambling! I'll try to focus in hope of a reply:

Short version: If I buy a more "advanced" free-ride board (e.g. I was looking at Option Signature in a shop during week) how bad/difficult/painful could it be?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

For the last 5 years I have ridden a Ride Timeless - a great board and one of the stiffest boards around. It never "hurt" me, but there were certainly days when I was tired and found it uncomfortable to ride - feeling that a more forgiving board would be more fun.

When I wanted to really charge down the slope, the Timeless responded instantly and so it was exhilarating on those days when I was in the mood, but the fact that I am now talking about the board in the past tense will tell you that eventually I got to the point where I wanted to increase the fun factor.

And so this season I got a new board, a Ride Society. I have found that it still allows me to blast on piste but is also easier to lark around on. It was certainly the right move to make.

Every manufacturer has a top-end board because many of us (me included) like to think that we are good boarders and so deserve a top-end bit of kit. In reality, most of us are better off on a mid-range board, which will be 98% as good as the top range board in most circumstances and will not have the disadvantages of being too stiff when you are (a) hungover (b) tired at the end of the holiday (c) simply in a chilled mood (d) trying some new tricks.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

michaelc, might be a bit radical for you but I have a Rad Air Tanker 182 sitting in my cellar doing nothing. You are welcome to borrow it if you like. I found it a perfectly docile board on-piste and great at driving through bumpy pistes. Obviously it was awesome in powder,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I started on a very forgiving board (a cheapo Merrier that i got off ebay). It was nice and long (166) but really bent and soaked up deviations in the slope. Good board but like turning an oil tanker at times, as it just didn't cut into the slope properly.

Bought a used Elan Paragon 157 vert core for £45 (again from ebay), as I wanted a shorter, stiffer board for general riding. The Elan is stiff, if a little heavy, but it's helped my riding no end. Turns I winced at on my long board are now a doddle, especially somewhere tight like the indoor slopes.

I only have half your riding time but I won't go back to a 'forgiving' board again. I'm actually thinking about going stiffer, something like a GNU Carbon high beam or a top-end Elan, so to answer your question, it won't be painful at all. I had to change my style (if you can call it that??) but as I was pretty new to baording anyway, it was a pretty instant switch.

The GNU CHB's are meant to be a proper 'cult' board but I'm sold on Elans at the moment, even if they are a little unknown in the UK.

You'll need to Register first of course.

IMO, there is a difference between a board that is "forgiving" and a board that is a noodle.

no-one wants to ride a noodle as you have no control in turns, but a board can be forgiving while still having the ability to carve like a good'un. My new Ride Society is a case in point - I was cutting turns down steep icy slopes last weekend and would have been no more confident on my Timeless, and yet when I was going over bumpy traversing tracks to get into fun off piste areas, the board was a lot more controllable than the ultra stiff Timeless.

It probably depends on what you call forgiving. I was class the following as "forgiving" boards which still have top performance:

Ride Society
Burton Custom (not the Custom X)
Rome Anthem

I would not call the Gnu Carbon High Beam a top end board. It is a good midrange board that is neither a noodle nor super stiff.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Carving ability is related more to the torsional stiffness. This is the concept behind the Swoard Extreme Carver. This board is not particularly stiff or narrow (for an alpine board) yet it has amazing edge hold.

After all it is free

I'm also, like Tony Lane, a big fan of the Timeless, and it's a good example to take here as it IS a very stiff and unforgiving board.

To add to his comments, I'd say that you really need to ride it quite actively and concentrate on what you're doing - it's not a relaxing board to ride at all. You have to learn to turn in a different way to a shorter, flexier board, and at low speeds, I find it hard to turn. At high speeds and in powder, it comes into its own, at the point where my other one (a Burton UnInc) starts to wash out and chatter. It was quite a long time before I felt like I was in charge on the Timeless! It was only my first board and I spent a long time feeling like I was just a passenger Smile

Mr L was looking for a more flexible board (starting in the park, looking to do more piste-tricks etc), has just bought a K2 Darkstar and loves it. True twin, so makes riding switch a lot more comfortable. He also tried the Ride DH, liked that as well.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Thanks all for the pointers and advice.

I thought a good way to get a better idea was to try out some test boards. I went to a test-center on Sat and asked the guy working there to recommend a stiffer & longer board to try. He gave me a Burton Custom 162 (I was pleased to see this as it had been mentioned by Tony Lane). I was very impressed. Didn't have any major problem at all with it, and very good fun. Definitely took one run to get used to: tail seemed to press up suprisingly at times, and I guess there's something different on the edge as depending on where I engaged it the turns seemed to surprise me and cut faster/slower. By the third run I was really enjoying it. Faster and more stable than my own board, and I started to understand what "pop" means. Funnily enough, riding this board I felt more inclination to do things like cutting through gaps a bit smaller than advisable, whereas usually I'm the one getting cut-up and swearing at others, of course I worked to keep these antisocial instincts at bay Very Happy

I then went back and asked for something much stiffer and he gave me a Salomon Burner 163. I knew nothing about this but looked now and it's at the top left of the Salomon board chart (so max-freeride and max expensive). At first found it much worse than Custom, the Burner felt a bit dead by comparison. Moving to higher speed riding than I usually do, and focussing more on carving, it started to get more interesting. Definitely much faster than my own board, and very stable. Did three runs again, and the second and third were very good fun and fast.

I didn't have time to try any more than that, but at least I have a better idea than before. Both boards made my legs more tired than usual, even though I didn't consciously try to ride harder than usual. Also, both put a smile on my face more than once Very Happy

Between the two, I'd go for the Custom, but wouldn't mind something maybe a little bit more rigid. I'm considering buying a Rome Anthem from bluetomato.at (on sale), would that fit with these preferences?

Also, nessy, thanks! I'd be very interested to try that Rad Air Tanker for a day if you're still offering. It's longer than any board I've seen around the slopes, so it should make for an interesting day's riding snowHead

I'll PM you contact info.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

michaelc, TEST, TEST, TEST . . . Quick rule of thumb is . . . 'the more time you spend sideways to the hill - the softer your board needs to be'.

A short board for the park has good flex but it is still quite strong to allow you to recover from an off-balance landing.
On piste, a stiff board will hate going sideways and will judder and fight your rigid legs . . . you need to CARVE these things . . . if you can't do that or don't want to learn to, then don't buy them.
Off piste, with practice, you can ride pretty much anything . . . but fat and wide makes it easy . . . which means that you have to have good technique to ride it on piste.

There's nowt like a brainfart!

You can't go wrong if you buy something like a Burton Custom or a Ride Timeless . . . and so many other of the middle range boards.

snow reports

Masque, I guess a Rome Anthem fits in the same broad category as a Burton Custom or a Ride Timeless? Of course all a little bit different, but broadly aiming at same type of riders?

RE board width, my own board is a bit wider than usual, and I definitely noticed a difference with the test-boards and thought they were quicker/snappier to switch from edge to edge (which I liked).

I've been riding a never summer SL58 almost exclusively this season even in pow up to about 18". These boards are handmade in colorado and are overbuilt with a 3 year warranty. The SL is a 2cm setback stance all-mountain freestyle twin-tip, carbon fibre, hard-charging,machine. Its a 6 out of 10 on never summer's stiff scale. Love it. Can't say enough good things about.

You know it makes sense.

Masque, What do you recommend for those with big feet who need a wider board ?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

david@mediacopy, what do you want it for? I've heard lots of praise for the Ride Yukon.

A snowHead

Swirly, I'm after a good all rounder. Somthing with a wide operating envelope, carving / off piste but not the park.

A bit like my twin tips (ski's)

I've had the K2 Zeppelin recommended to me ?

A snowHead

169 bit wide due to size 11's v stiff.. great on the early morning courdrouy great off piste.. as mentioned hard work on the bumps..
go for speed.. long stiff boards and get up early.. 2pm onwards is bar oclock

Help!!

forgiving/unforgiving boards, what makes the difference?

snowHeads Forum Index >>> snowBoarding