 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone else watch this, this evening ?
I was surprised to see that Mark Warner attracted some of the attention, regarding employing the undercover journo as a nanny without reference checks in La Plagne...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Richie_S, Didn't see it but surprised as Mark Warner do have a very good reputation 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That was my opinion too, and oft what you hear on here... it was a very short piece on MW in an overall programme on standards of nursery care.... there were a few items that were reported on, wrt MW - baby listening service/no reference checks/ and 'making' staff work at their resort Egypt on a tourist, rather than a work, visa..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not at all surprised it goes on. Ski B*@t had a very laisez faire attitude to Nanny recruitment a few years ago in La Tania. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I watched that programme too and I was very concerned that MW, who pride themselves on their childcare, didn't carry out the necessary checks - not once but twice. I was also concerned by the staff to children ratios and the undercover reporter in Egypt was thrown straight into an understaffed room without having had any induction training.
The nurseries that they investigated at home were even worse though. The reporter was left in the baby room with 3 one year old toddlers and 3 babies. The ratios are supposed to be one carer to 3 children at that age. This was the nursery where a 10 month old baby died after choking on a piece of apple. In another nursery, they were carrying out maintenance works and fixing radiator covers during nursery hours with the children there. The children were inches away from all sorts of tools including power drills. Shocking. Plus demotivated, underpaid staff do not make for a happy environment for children to grow up in.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I will be asking when i book if i can see the crb checks just to see what the response is.....
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Do they have that sort of requirement elsewhere in Europe? It seems like a peculiarly British obsession to me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fizz wrote: |
| I will be asking when i book if i can see the crb checks just to see what the response is..... |
If they allowed you to do so, then they would be breaking the law, with possible six month prison sentences. (Police Act 1997, section 124)
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I used to work in the security industry and the necessary checks were among the most stringent and virtually impossible to do accurately. If I remember correctly the crb checks were essentially hopeless anyway as, if the person's conviction is considered to be 'spent', then they're protected by the Rehabilitation of Offenders act and are non-disclosable anyway. The only real way to know was if the person had unexplained 'gaps' in their employment history which may have been spent at 'Her Majesty's Pleasure'. Add Data Protection into the equation and time was better spent bashing your head against a brick wall.. one of the many reasons I got out of the game.. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Charli939, But I think that for a job working with children you would be able to request an "Enhanced CRB check" which lists "spent" convictions.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I guess I feel that 99 out of 100 times (?) the fact that they don't check references or carry out a detailed crb check would make little difference in practice... as I would assume that 'most' applicants actually are decent sorts who want to be nannies in a ski resort... But then I generally am optimistic about human nature!
Besides, as far as I can see being a ski nanny just has to be about the hardest job for very little reward in the ski resort... tied up all day in the nursery and no chance to actually get out on the slops...
I agree with thefatcontroller, we had a great experience with Ski Esprit... but did we know if the company had actually carried out reference checks or really had certified nannies? - Nope, and of course we trust to the honesty and stated good practice of the operator. Just to be clear Esprit were not at all referenced in the programme...
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awksquawk, You could well be right, I'm afraid I don't have any real experience in that direction and have to admit its been a few years since I worked in the industry so things may well have changed. Just remember the checks being a bit of a farce with a load of red-tape thrown in for good measure.
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Richie_S
and no chance to actually get out on the slops...
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Pretty much sums up the style of my skiing.... 
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You know it makes sense.
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CRB checks are important but in the vast majoity of cases child carers will be good carers but whats worrying for me is the potential lack of first aid experience. Most nannies are not parents, they are young girls looking for a good time (ask any seasonnaire in resort  ) if my child is injured or needs some form of immediate first aid it terrifies me to think some clueless untrained person could be the first and only line of protection. I've been on Mark Warner and Sunsail holidays, the child care "feels" great and carers seemed quite tuned in but in some ways its like recommending an insurance company that you've never claimed with, when your just signing up and paying they are nearly always helpful and efficient - the only real test is when things go wrong, something most of us, thankfully, don't experience
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Frosty wrote: |
| CRB checks are important but in the vast majoity of cases child carers will be good carers but whats worrying for me is the potential lack of first aid experience. Most nannies are not parents, they are young girls looking for a good time (ask any seasonnaire in resort ) if my child is injured or needs some form of immediate first aid it terrifies me to think some clueless untrained person could be the first and only line of protection. I've been on Mark Warner and Sunsail holidays, the child care "feels" great and carers seemed quite tuned in but in some ways its like recommending an insurance company that you've never claimed with, when your just signing up and paying they are nearly always helpful and efficient - the only real test is when things go wrong, something most of us, thankfully, don't experience |
A good child care provision should give you most of this information without even asking, if they dont then youve every right to ask who has first aid, ask to see those certificates, ask to see how many on duty whilst youre there. What procedures theyve got in place if a child goes missing, has a medical emergency, the sorts of things a parent would worry about.
I saw the documentary and was astounded at what was exposed but it didnt surprise me in the least. Having had many years as an inspector (thankfully not now) and friends who worked abroad with Mark Warner type child care etc. The shocking stories would make a year long documentary!
I know the all childrens day care standards off patt so anyone thinking about child care please pm me, Ill happily advise on what to "really" look for and ask. Many questions you wouldnt really consider asking but are vital to the health, safety & well-being of youre children when there in someone elses care.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Nannies are generally very young when working for ski companies, and nearly always female. Chances are that anyone with a convicition that would make them a risk against children, would not have had any convictions at a young age.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's not just the police check though is it? That's just part of the background checking that should be carried out. It's also following up on references that counts. A lot of these companies make statements about having qualified nannies in their nurseries/creches. How can they justify statements like that when they can't even be bothered to check references to see if they are valid or not?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Given that most parents and other 'family and friend' type carers have no first aid training (apart from if it's bleeding, suck it; if it's burnt stick, it under the cold tap; if it's fallen off, stick it in a bag of frozen peas and drop it round to A&E), is it essential for paid carers to have that experience? It seems to me that what is actually important is adequate (not suffocating) supervision, and that is what costs money and so is most likely to be lacking from commercial care.
Anyone can stick their employees on a 1 day St John's course which will teach them little (judging from colleagues who have been on them) and say, 'All our staff are first aid trained.'. What you actually want are people with a bit of experience and common sense, such as people who have had kids themselves or people who are properly trained in childcare (such as NVQ in early years care and education); they'll be a lot more expensive than 17 yo gap year kids, though, and you'll probably want more than the legal minimum number in many circs.
If you want affordable (for most people) childcare, you're likely to have to accept less than 'ideal' arrangements. I'm not aware that there is a significant problem with child safety in holiday creches and so on so presumably what is provided is, in practice, adequate. If you want it to be better, you'll have to pay for it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
If you want it to be better, you'll have to pay for it.
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Or DIY...
Or (even better) Grandparents who dont ski anymore...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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martski, so long as they're 1st aid qualified and you've had the CRB check done, obviously.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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katiebeagle, Is this anything you could share on the public forum? - I think it would be very useful to know and have wider appeal?
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| katiebeagle wrote: |
| I know the all childrens day care standards off patt |
Would the average parent pass them?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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richmond, fair points. We have been way more impressed by child care in Canada and the US where we have paid for it to a separate organisation, than with a couple of companies in Europe (including MW) where it was part of a package arrangement.
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stoatsbrother, our experience in Canada and USA has been excellent too, as was our experience at Club Med (on the childcare front - weird otherwise). No other experience in Europe.
moffatross, what's the supposed link between MW and boarding school? I know several people who have stayed with MW (I did once, a long time ago); none of them send their kids to boarding school. Indeed, if you sent your kids to boarding school, why would you want a TO who offers childcare?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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richmond, one could just as well ask why, if you were going to shunt your offspring off to boarding schools, would you bother breeding in the first place?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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D'oh ! There I was, innocently trolling away, trying to stir up some kind of class war amongst us already priveleged skiers and you two go and kill my argument with logic. Tchh ! 
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| richmond, one could just as well ask why, if you were going to shunt your offspring off to boarding schools, would you bother breeding in the first place? |
Good question. Perhaps you just wake up one morning and realise how ghastly it all is. I have to say, as the father of 13 yo twins, that I can see the attraction.
moffatross, sorry, won't happen again. Struggle!
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FAQ
I thought all you Mark Warner holiday types packed your wee loves off to boarding school as soon as they're weaned anyway and you only see them for the summer hols ? 
