 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds like he was not experienced in serious off piste and didn't have a guide - contrary to all advice. I can't imagine any guide would let him do that. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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See pistehors for the fuller picture. A quite thought provoking comment on there about the possibly increased risks of being on foot after unclipping.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pistehors ?
Can u point me in the right direction?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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firebug, yep, it seems I was wrong.
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Wow. really bad luck. Presumably an immediate rescue was not possible because he was buried under snow and ice blocks.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/04/nboarder104.xml
"The party was halfway through the descent on Sunday morning when the snowboarder is thought to have become separated from the others.
He dropped below the main path during a traverse across the slope. Realising his mistake, he stepped out of his bindings and tried to climb up to rejoin the main route.
However, the extra pressure from his boots is thought to have been too much for a snow bridge across a crevasse, which gave way.
The area where the man fell, above a popular picnic spot at 8,500ft called the "salle a manger" or "dining room", is well known as a crevasse zone."
I've read another report that says he fell a couple of metres, unclipped to get out, and then the snow gave way, but the above seems more likely.
Really chilling and tragic, what an awful accident.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The Daily Mail reported both of those together and are using one of my Flickr photos to illustrate it, much to my annoyance. Petty, I know when people are having to deal with this kind of tragedy but it does bug me a bit.
(They have credited me, it's quite legal)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=524708&in_page_id=1811
Poor guys though - those both seem to be completely freak accidents, the kind of thing that could happen to anyone. Just awful I can't imagine how their families are feeling.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 4-03-08 12:41; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It is sadly not difficult to land on a snow bridge on the Vallee Blanche. It happened to me on my first descent of the run, on a January day of the late 1970s. I had a head wound because of a fall higher up the run - I'd had to avoid someone ahead of me on the fast tracks through the deep snow, suddenly plunged in speed as I diverted off the tracks. The compact skis wheeled over my head and cut it open.
So I was bandaged up by the guide ... and when we got to the Mer de Glace I was a bit dazed and missed a turn, dropping into the top of a crevasse, landing on the snow bridge.
I was very lucky (in January the snow is a lot more solid) whereas this guy has lost his life. Terrible luck.
You do have to ski very quietly, with a lot of concentration, on that section of the run.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| It is sadly not difficult to land on a snow bridge on the Vallee Blanche. |
They're unavoidable, as I remember it.
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You know it makes sense.
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| firebug wrote: |
The Daily Mail reported both of those together and are using one of my Flickr photos to illustrate it, much to my annoyance. Petty, I know when people are having to deal with this kind of tragedy but it does bug me a bit.
(They have credited me, it's quite legal)
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Off topic for this thread, but crediting you does not make it legal. It is still a copyright infringement unless you assign Flickr the rights when you post there, and they have permission from Flickr.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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alex_heney, there are other circs in which it could be legal. For example, firebug could indicate in another way that copying is permitted (possibly under certain conditions such as crediting her/him, not for commercial purposes, whatever), effectively a free licence to anyone, subject to those conditions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| richmond wrote: |
| alex_heney, there are other circs in which it could be legal. |
There are, but I was mainly just trying to correct the implication in his post that crediting him made it legal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I was mainly just trying to correct the implication in his post
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Correction..Her post. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry - I did have a bit more explanation but removed it as I felt it was out of place! Quickly then - I usually have all my pics under a creative commons licence, which requires them to be credited if used. They do get used, and people generally drop me a line to tell me. I like them to be used with a link if possible, it's generally no problem at all. Usage by a large national newspaper is *not* the kind of thing I was envisaging which is probably naive of me.
alex_heney, You are absolutely right that it doesn't make it legal, and it's good not to leave misleading info (as mine reads there), lying about.
It was legal under the original license I used, as richmond suggests. More fool me and I've changed it now and emailed the DM though I doubt they'll respond.
http://creativecommons.org/
for more info.
Sorry about the off-topic 
*curtsies to tim
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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firebug, it's decent of you to encourage others to use them and I can see why you'd be annoyed with the DM. Let's hope you're new 'T&Cs' work.
To revert for amoment to the topic, I'm slightly taken aback that a modest mistake (fall or slight deviation from the route) on the VB can have the consquence it has had. Not quite the stroll in the park it's often presented as.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, a pretty standard comment about doing the VB is that you need to be able to turn exactly where you want to - this is because there are times when you are on a fairly narrow path between crevasses. the turns themselves are not technically difficult at all but there is the psychological factor
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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richmond, you definitely have to be able to ski accurately.
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Crossed it off my "to do" list
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Frosty the Snowman, yes, that's what I'm thinking.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just want to correct something which I think is wrong in the news reports - at least how I'm reading it.
I spoke to a member of the group who was very keen to make the point that the victim was not off the main route nor separated from the group. The crevasse was directly under the "track" on a flat section and the Mr Tate fell into the crevasse directly after removing his snowboard. The group were with a very experienced guide and took all the normal precautions.
I'm not sure the salle a manger is a picnic spot, i think this is a misnomer, unless you want to be hit be a serac!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 4-03-08 18:36; edited 1 time in total
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| firebug wrote: |
| I usually have all my pics under a creative commons licence, |
Me too, on Flickr, but did you specify no commercial use. I don't mind people using my Flickr photos for non commercial use if they link back but they need to get permission for commercial use. I wouldn't count something like snowheads as commercial use even if there is some advertising.
At least they left your credit, if it was sham'o'net they would have cropped it off as they did with a press photo today taken by Jean-Pierre Clatot
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So the Telegraph is wrong, and he was fully on the main, well used track? That's even scarier
Yes, the DM haven't done anything wrong. They added that credit, in fact, I don't have it on the original, here.
I didn't specify no commercial use, which was a mistake. Like you, I don't mind in most cases, even if there are some ads. If you wanted to use any at pistehors, for instance, I'd be very happy. I use lots of other people's photos on my various blogs, always with their permission - like this one for instance, which shows pretty well why you need to be careful on the VB...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| firebug wrote: |
So the Telegraph is wrong, and he was fully on the main, well used track? That's even scarier
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That's what I was told and I discussed this in some detail. Seems like a very unfortunate accident and I did wonder whether to post it on PH or not as there is really nothing Mr Tate or his guide could have done apart from stay in bed. I generally try to stick to incidents which may be of some educational use to the backcountry community.
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"We rescued another man last week who fell the same distance..."
Talk about scary!
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You know it makes sense.
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The telegraph news reported "So far this year about 15 people have fallen down crevasses."
Just wonder if it is justifiable for SH to recommend another SH going for the Vallee Blanche even if it is just a day trip to Chamonix from another resort.
Others of course suggesting there is nothing wrong to do Vallee Blanche without a guide too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How many people go down Vallee Clanche each season? 1,500? 15,000? How many of them are guided?
Worrisome odds...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| I generally try to stick to incidents which may be of some educational use to the backcountry community. |
Davidof - I think it's useful to have this info put out in the way you have. Especially as it gets across very well "there is really nothing Mr Tate or his guide could have done apart from stay in bed". It gives the guides perspective to an extent, which we punters might not always get, and it hammers home again that the mountains are inherently dangerous, even with the kit and the experience.
It's still somewhere I'd very much like to ski, and enlightened, educated reporting of the risks should mean it's still there to ski and guides are still legitimately able to guide on it when I finally get there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
How many people go down Vallee Clanche each season? 1,500? 15,000? How many of them are guided?
Worrisome odds... |
1,000 per day. This picture from Mr Caplain taken from his plane yesterday will give you an idea
http://geo.hmg.inpg.fr/mto/jpegs/080213/0554.jpg
those aren't ants, they are skiers, probably a lot with guides.
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FAQ
