Nordica Blower/Enforcer

A snowHead

Megamum, I worked with Dynastar on a Small Project a couple of years ago, the result we called the Mythic Rider and the revised 8000, KZ and KU respectively and i spent a week with Nordica, kinda training/work experience a few years ago. Surprisingly alot of the design is still by hand and needs skilled workers. CAD is very much used but post concept and all the interesting stuff is modeling and mock ups. I'm a real geek, i have to know whatever i can find out, never really been interested in bindings however.

I think the important thing here is to remember this is a form and should be tailored for everyone to understand, we did wonder a little of track but we've come back full circle. You guys are so easy. Toofy Grin

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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

SMALLZOOKEEPER, That explains things then. I expect the time spent working with the ski designs was very interesting - there seems so much to them when I look at the odd web site - far more than I had originally suspected. I'm looking forward to finally meeting you in April Very Happy

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Do i need to change the word sidecut for 'Radius', or do you want 'Salt 'n' Vinegar' with those words?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Megamum, I really loved it, especially in Italy(Nordica/Elan) I reckon i'd have been better doing my ski instructors badges if i had really wanted to understand it. rolling eyes

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100% resistance.

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veeeight, Open or closed, pickled egg?

After all it is free

veeeight, Mate, when designing skis and deducing 'Radius' for W/C the CAD model has a constant, this constant is a static, immoveable 100% resistant surface to which the ski is cambered against, the 'Trace' is then given a circumference and 'Radius' applied. I'll try and put this in simple terms for the Forum if indeed it's needed.
Now, "Curry Sauce, perhaps a can of Cherryade to wash all that down." Laughing

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Shite, ironically When i was at Nordica, it was the Blower and the Enforcer we were working on!!!!!!!!! How Fecked up is that!!!!! Laughing

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Once again. In determining the 2D theoretical sidecut radius, a ski is not decambered into negative camber against an immovable 100% resistant surface.

Cod, Haddock, Halibut.

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I'm not sure i sell any skis with "2D theoretical sidecut radius" written on them, it would be pointless and of no use to anyone, we sell just those tested as outlined above.

veeeight, SMALLZOOKEEPER, Will both of you stop flirting, f*ck off and actually go skiing!!! Small, I'll see YOU in the morning, get the dancing shoes ready.

Can I have mushy peas?? Twisted Evil

You know it makes sense.

NAKEDZOOKEEPER, Took ya time, Jizz weasel. Busy? Still at work, was going to pop down and nick that can of coke.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

SMALLZOOKEEPER, Just finishing, afraid we're out of coke. Got a Dandelion and Burdock left though......

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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Are *you* saying then, that, if I take a 12m radius slalom ski, and ski it on 100% resistance boilerplate ice, that I will only be able to ski (pure carve) it at a 12m radius, not 11m? Little Angel

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veeeight, You will probably 'boot out' first or not have full running edge contact.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

SMALLZOOKEEPER, No, and no. Toofy Grin

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veeeight, So how do you propose achieving this? Assuming that your not going to tell me 'By Cambering' the ski.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I actually think I understand this thread Shocked

When the concept of these carving skis helping you to turn was first explained to me I was asked to visualise a bendy ruler with a curved edge having pressure applied to the centre to allow the curved edge to lie flat against an inclined plane. This was an eye opener.

I think all the points made here regarding does the 'inclined plane' need to be absolutely solid (boiler plate) or are things different in powder, and whether the engle the ski is placed on the inclined plane makes a difference are all valid - there are a huge number of variables. Given these I guess the only reliable comparison of various skis is the artificial one with standard conditions (this is theory I use to rank the environmental performance of chemicals). As I see it a side cut radius determined from an outline of the ski shape and a circle fitted against the arc of the ski and then the length of that circle's radius, does give a way of comparing various skis against each other on paper - I think that's the 2D perspective that was mentioned. But SZK is right too - in use the angle of the ski against the inclined plane, the hardness of the surface, the weight and skill of the skier, the overall length of the ski and I bet even the speed of the turn with cntrifugal forces etc. will all influence the turning radius of the ski in use and mean that it doesn't necessarily replicate the sidecut radius on paper.

I think everyone here is right in their own way - and as with my environmental chemicals the standard conditions of the hazard assessment aren't necessarily replicated when the chemicals are actually in use when the risk can be entirely different.

There - how did I do?

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SZK, By skiing. Properly.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

veeeight, Sounds like your alone there then, the industry needs you. I still don't understand your 2D idea. If a ski has a sidecut of 112-88-96 the upper part of the ski (waist to tip) and the lower part (waist to tail) will have a different arc depending on the proximity of the measurements to each other, ie Pintail design of old. This will denote an untrue arc and the turn shape will be that of an Egg. Only if we introduce camber to these dimensions and a constant, resistant surface can we true this arc.

After all it is free · Last edited by After all it is free on Sun 2-03-08 23:45; edited 1 time in total

I've heard good things about the Enforcer and not so many good things about the Blower, for what it's worth - my buddy owned and sold a pair of Blowers too finding them a bit rubbish outside of untracked snow, which excelling in alone isn't a standout quality...

IIRC you know Fernie so, cut up crud in the Fernie old side "triangle" on slow area opening days apparently threw them all over the place. I'd probably look at the Gotama/P4/Bro/LP type skis over Blowers really.

Also, I have no clue or input about the sidecut debate Toofy Grin

DaveC, Cheers I'm leaning towards the Enforcers anyway on practicality grounds. How are the Praxis (Praxii?) working out for you?

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Not owning a pair and skiing anywhere with decent snowfall is probably criminal Very Happy

I absolutely love them. I was thinking of reselling them on day 1-3, enjoying them in untracked and hating them in bumpy soft snow the next few days, and when it all finally clicked into place they're just sick. They make all forms of fresh snow feel effortless, including most forms of crusts. They kill it in crud too, my expectations of them being a first couple of hours inbounds and slackcountry ski has been greatly surpassed. They're too heavy for long tours though, and about as much effort to break trail as to follow a skintrack with - I'm assuming due to the lack of contact with snow from the camber. I upgraded to 195 from 185 recently, but it's not snowed since.... Sad

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Oh, and they rock trees/glades so hard it's insane Very Happy

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DaveC, Isn't a Goat and a P4 the same type of Ski as a Blower? I wouldn't put the LP in that type of ski?

*resolves to blame SZK for every instance of sillyneoGoth graphics*

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

szk, I have no wish for this to turn into a fishing competition or a willy waving contest, so this will be my last word on this.

If I take a 12m published radius slalom ski, and ski lightly on it, sure, it will prescribe acarved arc of approximately 12m. (The 12m in the first instance being determined by the formula on the previous page at the design stage).

Taking the same ski, skiing at a higher speed, resisting the forces more, (still on boilerplate ice), generating more pressure buildup and bending the forebody of the ski, getting a higher edge angle, and crucially, getting the shovel of the ski to engage, I will be able to de-camber the ski more into negative camber, whilst still maintaining full edge contact, and get the ski to prescribe a carved arc of say, 11m, by bending the ski into a tighter arc primarily by using the shovel to 'cut' a tighter radius. The rest of the ski will follow.

My point is that the published radius is not derived by decambering a ski against a 100% resistance surface, because as shown above, you can get a variety of numbers depending on what factors you change. If you don't believe me do as megamum has done and cut out an hourglass shape out of paper and edge it on a table top, you will find that you can get various different radii out of it.

The published sidecut radius number is an indication of the geometric shape of a ski, determined at the design stage, on a 2D drawing board or CAD screen, it isn't determined by decambering a ski against a surface.

Megamum, good understanding!

A snowHead

veeeight,

Thats fine ... Laughing

Lets talk about the skis now. I'll still try the Enforcer if I can find it...less interested in the Blower for the alpes.
NKZ has a good take on this... if you have a bundle of skis, add the Blower, if you carry the one, get the Enforcer....of the two offered up here, that is.

A snowHead

veeeight wrote:

[b]szk, I have no wish for this to turn into a fishing competition or a willy waving contest, so this will be my last word on this.[/b]

Why would you say that? I thought we were having a debate, i'm simply interested as to your POV and wish to question the information you present here.

If I take a 12m published radius slalom ski, and ski lightly on it, sure, it will prescribe acarved arc of approximately 12m. (The 12m in the first instance being determined by the formula on the previous page at the design stage).

Taking the same ski, skiing at a higher speed, resisting the forces more, (still on boilerplate ice), generating more pressure buildup and bending the forebody of the ski, getting a higher edge angle, and crucially, getting the shovel of the ski to engage, I will be able to de-camber the ski more into negative camber, whilst still maintaining full edge contact, and get the ski to prescribe a carved arc of say, 11m, by bending the ski into a tighter arc primarily by using the shovel to 'cut' a tighter radius. The rest of the ski will follow.

The running edge will not be true, but it is possible on a non 100% resistant surface, simple geometry however an elipse. If you take a ski, put it vertical and camber it only the tip and tail will touch the same surface floor, in the real world, you may have waist contact to snow but on a different surface plane.

My point is that the published radius is not derived by decambering a ski against a 100% resistance surface, because as shown above, you can get a variety of numbers depending on what factors you change. If you don't believe me do as megamum has done and cut out an hourglass shape out of paper and edge it on a table top, you will find that you can get various different radii out of it.

I don't know where you got this information, but it is a simple way of describing the real process. As we can see, to describe it correctly takes alot of time and is easily misinterpreted.

The published sidecut radius number is an indication of the geometric shape of a ski, determined at the design stage, on a 2D drawing board or CAD screen, it isn't determined by decambering a ski against a surface.

Gun to head, trigger cocked.
Megamum, good understanding!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Think not about flexing tip/Tail to waist, put the waist on a resistant surface and pull tip and tail towards you until you have true edge contact, this is your 'Sidecut radius.'

The new Atomic skis for next year have a variable side cut, this means that extra pressure and camber adjusts the sidecut as the ski is cut down the middle and filled with a rubber skirt. It's a crazy idea, but the ski comes with a video that will help illustrate my point, i'll try and get hold of it and wack it on 'You Tube'.

Help!!

Nordica Blower/Enforcer

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