pam w, and April will be warmer for them , not so tough on the arthritis . I've had some 'pensioners' at the apartment earlier in the year, one of them learning for the first time. He had a really great time ( the ESF instruction was apparently brilliant).
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
achilles, I couldn't comment, i ski the piste very rarely and hunt out a different descent as often as i can. I think this leads onto the debate about Ski Randonnée and peoples level of competance in unchartered terrain, something i have experience of recently. That said over grooming the piste, i don't know, is this perhaps due to the increased lack of snow cover?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
So skiing has become easier, and the technology has removed all challenge? Tosh.
Techonology may have made skiing more accesible, allowing older, less fit, less athletic skiers (like me) greater freedom to move off the nursery slopes and get round the mountain, but there's still plenty of challeges left for those who seek the:, itineraries, off-piste, iced up moguls, or just carving an elegant line on the groomed runs.
I didn't start skiing until my forties. I suspect that If I'd had to learn on the old kit, I'd either have given up or still be on the greens. Technology has opened the door to many like me, who missed out when they were young and fit. Sad old moaners who don't like the fact that it's lost some of its 'exclusivity' are, IMHO to quote a well known 'Losers'.
SMALLZOOKEEPER, could be - hadn't thought of that. As you probably know, I like off-piste - and wish I were fit enough for touring. I was quite intrigued to see that ruled out by some sHs when the 3V lifties went on strike. Reckon I'd have give it a crack again for a day in their circumstances.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
AxsMan, though I skied for a week or so in my teens (leather boots, wood skis, cable bindings, rope tow, nut-cracker rope clip) but I didn't ski again until my forties. I assure you it was quite possible to have fun at that stage on 'old' skis - OK the boots were plastic by then.
I agree with you and rob that the challenges are still there.
That bit alone would have been enough to put me off
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Of course my post was somewhat tongue in cheek (just for a change) but on a serious note, in skiing and other endeavours, improvements in technology don't remove the challenges they just relocate them.
I watched an instructor in Wengen at half term (in their ski show) demonstrating the really old school, single long pole, wooden skis, technique. He was good but it looked slow and cumbersome even on a nursery slope. He'd have to have been a skiing GOD to have stood a chance in the steeps, or powder or bumps.
Have downhill times improved, or courses got more challenging? I read somewhere that some downhills have had to be modified because on modern kit the racers now go too fast to stay on them A case of the technology getting ahead of human ability perhaps?
I'm sure that today's extreme skiers would grant the old school pioneers the credit of respecting their achievements, while skiing deeper, steeper and faster than the old boys ever could have dreamed possible.
After all it is free
After all it is free
The writer of that article needs to take a trip out of Aspen. At one point he says:
Quote:
There is evidence on the hills and in the valleys that we are challenging skiers much less than in the past.
There is nothing stopping skiers seeking out their own challenges rather than just those offered by the resorts. Look at people like Pierre Tardivel who is still finding aesthetic first descents in some of the most intensively skied areas of the alps
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
AxsMan, ye-e-s - unfortunate term Don't know what else to call it though. It was a clamp, one end of which was tied to my waist, the other I threw over the lift rope. The idea was to hold the two ends together with a hand, so that the rope was then grasped in the jaws of the clamp - a bit like a nut in a nut-cracker.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
> No expert is going to work a pair of narrow 210’s down Ridge of Bell while the advanced-intermediates steam past them with minimal effort on shaped skis.
... The skis didn’t look that long but I still had visions of them being about as maneuverable as the Exxon Valdez coming into an Alaskan oil terminal
... I was surprised that you could still carve and make short radius turns, just like the latest shaped skis but the real surprise was the amount of grip on icy surfaces, like the blade of a Swiss army knife cutting into a block of Rebluchon.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sat 1-03-08 14:58; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Anyone on here going to trade there fat carvers in for a pair of 210 straight skis, thought not.
It would be like trading a Mondeo in for a Cortina and trying to covince yourself the Cortina is better
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
fatbob,
Thank god you said that... never understood how people can go and ski open to close lifts day in, day out. Quality over quantity again.
Apart from really feeling it on day 9... I am getting frankly bored unless we find something better..which generally means, steeper, and away from the crowds. And sometimes you don't always have the energy to be able to do that.
Pacing yourself, is a hard thing to learn, probably made harder by the fact that most don't get enough time on snow, so have to maximise it.
What scares me......more so than some hairy gully funnily enough, is the 4 o'clock runs with so many people who aren't at all in control.
My worst time last year was on a piste in La Plagne... and then on the home run at Serre C with too many people. I saw 4 accidents in that short time and got taken out myself. This was by far the worse, and after coming over from La Grave, was a bit silly. You can do 40-45 plus degrees with rocks in a pretty tight space, and you are more likely to hurt yourself or rather get hurt on the home run... Give me an icy black back home and that will keep the numbers down as they just can't stay up. It is one thing to ski and look after yourself, without someone else making it worse.... Accidents are accidents, but....
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Davidof : we posted at more or less the same time, with more or less the same point. Bizarre
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
JT, I was there a couple of days ago, the start of the day was carnage, i didn't stick around for the end of the day, i was real scared.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Kel wrote:
Davidof : we posted at more or less the same time, with more or less the same point. Bizarre
Yes... ESP or somefink. Life on Mars almost gave me a taste for buying a 1975 Ford Taunus (MK III Cortina) I saw at St Columban last winter . However the 20 mpg put me off a bit.
I learned to drive on a 1963 MK I Cortina which my brother and I had fitted a 1600 Ford Cosworth engine too. It would wheelspin in the wet even in 4th gear, but what did we expect with 135 Xply tires? Completely lethal and probably the equivalent of a pair of 210cm Dynastar X33 skis and leather boots.
The MK II Grand Turisimo was a pussycat in comparison.
Personally I would trade a Mondeo for a Triumph 2.5PI with Overdrive that I once owned. The smell of the leather seats, the walnut dash, the gaping rust holes in the sills. The rumble of the big end bearings breathing their last after 75,000 miles of driving. Now that's character. It could do 130mph and was by far the fastest car I had driven. It even had disk brakes on the front with a Servo and power steering, all of which gave strange hydraulic sounds when running.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Probably repeating what's been said but nevermind nothing better to do. Modern skis may make the basic easier but it raises everyone’s game, so more people can tackle more demanding conditions but there sure are a lot of skiers out there that despite the modern skis can't ski very well. The last couple of weeks have been warm with plenty of slush, seen most people struggle in these conditions. Maybe carvers have made it harder in some conditions, simply laying the ski over to engage an edge may work on nice groomers but in cut up slush you don't really need edges as much you need speed, commitment, plenty of flex to absorb the lumps and bumps and a rock solid stance or take it slower with strong short turns to bust through the slush. I haven't seen many people doing much of this despite the "easy" skis. How many skiers do you see with their skis clamped together and back bottoms wiggling down the slope? Plenty - still lots of learning and challenges out there , it's all just a bit more accessible and fun!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
SMALLZOOKEEPER,
Gobsmacked I was... I have never been one for downlifting, but that place made as good a case as you could make....
And of course, this is the type of thing chasing people further and further away from the crowds..which brings along a whole new set of issues..
One resort I know..are refusing to replace their lift as they can make things work with the numbers they have... the lift is quite slow and the terrain can slow you down. They do not want more people on the hill...but that thinking must be unique amongst resorts.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
fatbob wrote:
rob@rar,
But as you're posting can we assume you're one on the punters who gives up at mid-day because they've run out of challenge.
Almost, but not quite. I'm just about to start a fairly intensive two-week instructor course, so only wanted a few hours to find my ski legs but not to get too tired. I also needed to get down to Bourg to get to the laundrette.
There is another sport with a similar debate - sailing. People can now take to the water and do really ambitious passages with nil navigational skills, because of advanced electronics. They can also sail with negligible sailing skills, furling their sails (you can get help with that, too) well before they actually have to do any manoevring, and not putting them up again till they are well away from anything they might have to jiggle around. Now in my young day....
You do still see some real sailors in France though - in and out of marinas under sail, one old brown man in a tiny thong thing, doing it all himself, boom and sail falling down round his head as he slips into his berth, because they don't seem to bother with topping lifts. The old boy we bought our boat from used regularly to sail it to Corsica single handed.
My daughter worked in the Port Solent Marina one summer and said that some of the gin palace owners used to get the lock boys to take their vessels through the lock for them - they'd pick it up the other side.
Life boat bait. But there's money in it and remarkably few people drown themselves. They're missing out on the "passion" of tacking a boat through the moorings, on a dying breeze, against the building ebb tide, but I don't suppose they care!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w, Good point, i would like to throw 'Darts' too into the mix (you see what i did there?) bloody dangerous given that they're essentially 'Arrows' and given out on a tray with several pints of beer to almost anyone.
After all it is free
After all it is free
pam w wrote:
one old brown man in a tiny thong thing
Some people have no shame.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof, how did you get hold of 210s? recommended length for racing was 201... I have a very, very similar pair in my garage. Fancy a day on out on old skis? Maybe complete the outfit with luminous SOS teabag-kit?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Technology was not the cause of skiing lossing its soul. The skiing public is.
The "achievement of life" has slowly but surely been reduced to the accumulation of material goods. So where is the soul of life itself?
When the soulless skiing public go to the mountains, they're not interested in the soul of skiing. They won't recognize it if it hit them on their face.
Blaming technology for the lost of skiing's soul is just the author looking for scapegoat.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
abc, Profound.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
David Murdoch wrote:
davidof, how did you get hold of 210s? recommended length for racing was 201... I have a very, very similar pair in my garage. Fancy a day on out on old skis? Maybe complete the outfit with luminous SOS teabag-kit?
Mine are 201s - 210s would be way way too long. A day out sounds fun, I understand you can get one piece suits on ebay and how about some of those little furry ear muff things and what... a sweat band?
I remember seeing guys moguling on 201s. I think my legs would snap if I tried that.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
This thread proves the passion, doesn't it?
As for the challenge, doesn't that come from within our own selves? A groomed blue piste can be challenging - it depends what you do with it. I learnt to ski in 2002, at the age of 31, and found that standing on waxed planks pointing downhill on a mountain, on a planet with gravity, was one hell of a challenge! Now, no - I need more to feel that I'm learning and stretching my abilities, as do all of us s. Maybe the Aspen chap is disappointed with his own perfomance on the slopes and externalising it?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Jerry wrote:
Buggered if I find it easy. Do I need some more technology ?
My worst time last year was on a piste in La Plagne... and then on the home run at Serre C with too many people. I saw 4 accidents in that short time and got taken out myself. This was by far the worse, and after coming over from La Grave, was a bit silly. You can do 40-45 plus degrees with rocks in a pretty tight space, and you are more likely to hurt yourself or rather get hurt on the home run... Give me an icy black back home and that will keep the numbers down as they just can't stay up. It is one thing to ski and look after yourself, without someone else making it worse.... Accidents are accidents, but....
Agreed, the Valentin in January scared me far more than any couloir.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
David Murdoch wrote:
davidof, how did you get hold of 210s? recommended length for racing was 201... I have a very, very similar pair in my garage. Fancy a day on out on old skis? Maybe complete the outfit with luminous SOS teabag-kit?
Mine are 201s - 210s would be way way too long. A day out sounds fun, I understand you can get one piece suits on ebay and how about some of those little furry ear muff things and what... a sweat band?
I remember seeing guys moguling on 201s. I think my legs would snap if I tried that.
I think that your Rossignols were the longest size made. Most of the manufacturers dropped down from 205s as the standard male length that season. I still have some Kästle 201cm slalom skis from the same year.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
SMALLZOOKEEPER, the time was, it took half a lifetime of pale ale in the public bar to be able to throw your arrows. Now, anybody with half a lager can get a double in their first week.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Of course modern ski technology makes it easier.
Since I worked a ski season in 92-93 I have averaged only 10 days per year on snow. My second run this year was 500m of wind effected off piste and I skied it pretty competently (not exactly fluid or really confident but quite respectable). That day, I skied difficult snow conditions better than I would have been able to do at the end of 4.5 months day-in-day out skiing, with 23 year old legs but on 200cm skinny skis.
The technology allows me to ski to a decent standard despite having only limited time to ski. Fantastic. I don't feel any less passionate about the sport.
What if I had a lot more time to ski - would I find it just TOO easy? I doubt it, I'd do more touring/mountaineering, seek out hidden corners, etc. Even in 92-93 by half-way through my first season we used pistes as way to get us to the off-piste, the bump runs under the chairs, etc, etc.
Even now there is a big difference between my sking (as a recreational expertish skier) on a particular off-piste line and a professional (guide, instructor, whatever). Probably some intermediate/early advanced skiers wouldn't tell the difference but it would be obvious to better skiers. I suspect that just skiing a groomed red run the differences would be a lot harder to pick but so what?
I've a few snowboarder friends who've crossed over to skiing because boarding off piste is just too damn easy. I guess for skiers there is a similar answer... telemark. Seeing guys doing 40-45 degree slopes on telemark kit is something.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
Seeing guys doing 40-45 degree slopes on telemark kit is something.
I love watching telemarkers, and top snowboarders, and kids in the park, and 3 year olds grinning from ear to ear, and a 60 year old getting down his first green run. They all look to me as though passion is far from dead.
Bit I ski almost entirely in a very quiet area, and out of holiday times. I do agree that when pistes in the mega resorts are like the M6, it's hideous.
davidof, yup, with you there. Am planning on my 1st telemark experience on the MSB, and I'm really looking forward to it. I decided a few years ago that when I got fairly competent on alpine skis I'd give it a go, and here I am. It'll be a while, I think, before I'm tackling 40-45 degrees!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
At the dryslope every now and then, I get out my last pair if straight skis (P20SLs 190cm) - and they are a blast ! Until I try to ski them through the more turny courses we set these days. If I want more of a challenge I get out my leather tele boots, and skinny skis - and have a (very bad) run with the clips undone. Would I use either in La Grave ? No way !
After all it is free
After all it is free
stoatsbrother wrote:
David Goldsmith, Interesting points - I am not a climber (tried it - no good at it) but there has been a real discussion about the ethics of climbing I believe. Free vs fixed routes, use of hardwear, solo vs non-solo etc, and some of that debate has been about the effects on the environment.
but be interested to hear from someone who actually knows anything about that.
This discussion has moved on a bit but I've only just seen this.
The ethics debate has been going on in climbing for a long long time and will probably continue for all eternity. However, you're correct to say that a lot has been centered on environmental concern. Self imposed rules such as no chipping are practised by all but a tiny (idiotic) minority, however, a lot of recent debate has been on the use (or overuse) of chalk creating visual pollution on the rock*. Additionally the free vs fixed gear debate is probably the most hottly argued question: go onto UKClimbing.com and ask about putting bolts in Stanage and you'll get the same welcome as someone starting another helmet debate on here. This is less about the environmental impact of putting a line of bolts up a rockface though and more to the point of completely altering the experience of climbing the route in the style to which British climbing considers the purest.
*There's also the chalk (acceptable here not so much on the continent) vs pof (use in Font never in the UK) debate but I won't bore anyone with that.
I think in climbing modern equipment has certainly changed the face of climbing: routes that were basically solos in the 50's and 60's are now well protected mid-grade climbs. However, the standard of climbing has moved on dramatically: many top end routes are as dangerous as the hardest routes always were and this is now considered safe!! There's probably as few people at the top end as there ever was but the sport as a whole has become more accesible. Like skiing, however, it's still easy to avoid the crowds if you put a bit of a walk in at the start of the day.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Swirly, phew!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
achilles, assuming you're refering to the link rather than the post this is the hardest (whatever that means...) route in the UK.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. I've had some 'pensioners' at the apartment earlier in the year, one of them learning for the first time. He had a really great time ( the ESF instruction was apparently brilliant).
'Losers'. 
. However the 20 mpg put me off a bit.
If I want more of a challenge I get out my leather tele boots, and skinny skis - and have a (very bad) run with the clips undone. Would I use either in La Grave ? No way !