Burning Thighs

A snowHead

This is fascinating. I am realising from what is being shared here that my technique cannot be as good as I like to think it is, as I find I struggle with stamina/cardio and muscle fatigue without doing some fitness training for both before a ski trip.

Yet I know my friend Whitenoise skis happily all day, everyday of any given trip without any prep and he's over 60 and spends his life sitting in a music studio. He's said to me in the past that with good technique you don't need to be fit but I ignored the personal implication until reading this thread.

Shocked

well, that's given me something to focus on for the MSB

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

rob@rar, I think you misunderstood - I think skiing is enjoyed as a recreation by many. However, many also suffer a great deal of muscle pain as a result of their one or two weeks skiing a year with no exercise at all in between. The OP asked about burning thighs. Much of this is probably down to technique, but even with good technique, it is likely that somebody who does no exercise at all will have some muscle pain and burning while skiing. So, to avoid this you can do some exercise in the gym, or general fitness training. You don't have to, but without it you might not enjoy your precious week in the mountains as much as you could.

For me, the fitness is essential. Without it, I'd simply not be able to ski at all at altitude. I would not dream of going skiing without many months of hard, painful exercise and fitness training leading up to going skiing. It is worth it when I get there. Technique allows me to benefit from that training further.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

rob@rar, I have to agree with you here. Of course I recognise that to 'get the most' out of my skiing (if someone could define 'most') or perhaps simply to 'ski faster, harder and for longer without fatigue' improved fitness would help (a lot Embarassed

), but after following the advice on this board in terms of stance, and finally managing (at least some of the time) to 'get out of the back seat' I have found that burning thighs and leg fatigue have become much reduced. I'm sure there would be lots of benefits to me in losing weight and getting fitter, but as you say a twice-weekly gym regime though helpful is not necessary for me to enjoy recreational skiing. (and recreational drinking and eating too Very Happy

)

Of course for those who enjoy the gym and keeping fit, nothing I have said above is meant as a criticism. (not looking for another helmet fanatic type argument here Shocked

)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

docsquid, didn't see your post while I was typing mine. so mine was not meant as an argument against yours Little Angel

I'd compare skiing to other activities in the mountains. Some people go hill running, some cycle, some climb, and some take leisurely walks. All are enjoyable but require very different levels of ability and fitness. I'm more of your 'leisurely walk round the mountains' kind of skier, so provided I can get about, having fun wherever I go, stopping from time to time for 'refreshments' I will be happy. Of course If you are more of a 'hill runner' then you'll need a greater level of fitness. Each to their own, Laughing

After all it is free

rob@rar, Yes in that area I have demonstrated real dedication Embarassed

Can't make the EOSB (will be in Ischgl with the family snowHead

) but suspect my envelope may be stretched at the MSB Laughing

I'm with docsquid on this (despite a slight difference over the effect of gravity on the human body). On the rare occasions when I've been fit before going skiing, I have skied better (makes you wonder why I don't try to get fit before every skiing hol). Fitness is no substitute for technique, and reasonable technique allows unfit louts like me to ski OK, but improving fitness definitley makes skiing more enjoyable.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

AxsMan, yes, I agree. Mr DS in particular skis flat out almost all the time. This being the case, I have to ski race stylee a lot of the time just to stay within sight of him. I can assure you that at the end of a race, or just a spirited run with Mr DS, despite having pretty good skeletal support, and good weight distribution (not my opinion, that of a BASI trainer), my legs are burning big-time. I don't enjoy being left behind, or feeling that I'm holding him up, so for me, the extra fitness stuff is essential. I am always looking to improve technique, and fortunately for me, mine seems to be improving faster than Mr DS's, so I'm catching him up a bit!

I have found as I've got more proficient, and am therefore content to ski at a higher speed, I don't waste so much energy slowing my descent quite so much on steeper pitches. That's possibly another factor - fighting a red or black slope makes your legs burn much more than skiing it more fluently.

BTW I'm seriously deficient in the recreational eating and drinking training Wink

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

You will find no skier as unfit as me. This level of unfitness extends beyond mere lardyness and into knackered and worn out joints, and tremendous levels of inflexibility. The knackered knees have effected the right hip to the stage that I can no longer reach to fasten the 2nd clip down on my boots.

I can however now ski fairly hard all day and quite often top to bottom on runs (although I do like a stop Very Happy

). This is totally down to improvements in technique.

snow reports

docsquid, Very good points. During our Lads trip to Val this year I spent quite a bit of time tagging along with my two 'week 1' skiing mates. They were having lessons in the mornings, and I quite enjoyed just tagging along, trying to get the exercises right, and generally not pushing myself very much. Afternoons we'd al ski together but sticking to the greens (which in Val includes the odd challenge!)

One afternoon myself and the fourth member of our 'troupe' (who is an ex military instructor, not skied for years but hasn't forgotten how!) went off on our own for a bit of a hoon around. Thing was, although we skied faster and further than we had all week up until then, my legs actually were LESS tired. Like you I think I found that 'letting the skis run' rather than 'holding back' was significantly less effort.

I should add that this was on blues and greens not reds and blacks. I'm happy on most reds and OK on the easier blacks (conditions permitting) but find I'm still 'fighting them' probably through fear more than anything else Embarassed

(love those cruisy blues and 'gentle' reds though Laughing

WOW! What a response.

Would it be fair to precis all the above with the following:-

My problem is mostly bad posture so improving my technique will enable me to perform at a good level but once that is sorted, improvement would be down to incresed fitness. Therefore, get the technique sorted first and do whats possible to imporve your fitness.

Thank you all for your advice

On a cheeky level, would adding weight to my upper body, perhaps with a helmet, make me lean further forward( stands back with fingers in ears to avoid the abuse) Twisted Evil

You know it makes sense.

Know various Austrians who used to be young and fit with good technique. Now they just have what's left of the technique and some have a beer belly. They still get around well (far better than I used to even though I was much fitter). Both fitness and good technique / stance will help but the latter is much more influential IMHO. Sometimes all a high level of fitness does is help you to maintain bad technique for longer.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Frosty the Snowman, My joints are OK, but in pretty much every other respect I suspect we are pretty similar. It was some of your posts on stance (and Easyski's suggestions) that got me out of the back seat (at least some of the time) Embarassed

. Lovin' the Fischers too! Laughing

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

paulcl, not a nitpick at all. Silly me, although given that most g forces in skiing are probably experienced when turning, in which most of the acceleration probably comes from the change in direction rather than a change in speed, and that the acceleration is therefore higher the faster the turn is made, it is a kind of effect of speed (he wrote, clutching at a passing straw, having been out corrected).

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

What assumptions have we made about ski fitness that may be entirely false:

1. R does not exercise much - exercise might help him in limiting ski fatigue (irrespective of his technique)?
2. A normal Sunday skier does not need ski specific fitness regime. A normal healthy and fit lifestyle is sufficient?
3. A hardcore skier could benefit from real fitness regime through out the year and some ski specific training prior to his annual ski weeks?
4. A good physical condition will help any skier to improve his/her technique?

No offense, but I don't really get why discussing exercise as ONE of the solutions to minimising thigh burn.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

demos, To address two of your points:

1. These days i don't exercise as much as i should but i am relatively, physically strong.

2. Definitly a 1 week a year skier and i do do physically demanding work.

What really supprised me was that i did not run out of puff, as far as cardio fitness was concerned, i coud have skiied all day. But it was my thighs that took the battering.

After all it is free

demos, none taken; I don't argue with your points in general, but notice that further assumptions lie in the reduction to specifics.

For example, I would not favor thigh-specific exercise to bolster what is already likely to be one of the strongest muscle sets in any skier's body, to train it for work that it shouldn't really be doing anyway, training away from all the other things it could be doing (balance, steering), training it out of context with all the other muscles needed, and training it entirely too close to the ski season to allow proper recovery and integration into smooth whole-body motion.

comprex, agree. There's nothing worse in my mind in an approach to fitness or training than one-thing-only approach. Indeed training should be something that gives a balanced result. And heck, yes, thighs together with gluteus is probably the strongest muscles in a man's (or woman's body). But since I have to play the role of smart-gluteus, I should say that it does not mean much when we know what the strength of an average European is...

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Warning thigh related re-run .....

Jane Fonda was in Wigan doing one of her fitness workout classes. The music started and she said "hands on thighs"

......... but then the rest of the class couldn't see anything.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

comprex, what I was suggesting was a regime to boost endurance, not strength. These are different things, and relate to the conditioning of different muscle fibre types - somebody can have very strong legs i.e. able to lift things that are heavy, but have very poor endurance, because this is built through a different type of training targeting different muscle fibres. I see this a lot at the gym.

Somebody skiing all day is going to need endurance in their leg muscles, regardless of their technique - simply standing up all day requires some endurance, and whether you like it or not, you do make some movements with the thighs while skiing that include bending and straightening the knees (moguls, anyone?). Some people naturally have more of these endurance (Type I) fibres, and this might explain why some people do no exercise but can ski all day, while others get very fatigued. I think you'll probably find that ski racers do a lot of leg muscle specific work, as well as working on technique, general CV fitness, anaerobic threshold training, power training, motor skills training, balance and agility and all the other things that are needed.

I agree, most people think about ski fitness way too close to the ski season to make much difference.

I also think that technique is extremely important and good technique makes it possible for people to ski all day with relatively low levels of fitness and conditioning. I'd rather have good endurance AND good technique AND good core strength AND good balance and everything else.

I'd find it hard to develop good technique without the endurance to get me through a lesson.

I see I'm in a minority here, and am therefore probably wrong.

snow reports

rob@rar, I can see that only limited strength work is required, but specific leg muscle endurance training is important for skiing (and many other sports). An exercise bike can achieve this, or weight training, provided the load is appropriate.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

DB, well, I thought your thigh joke was funny Laughing

.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

rob@rar, Don't worry after several non-stop top to bottom runs over the next 2 weeks, your thighs will be like Hermann Maier's. Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

rob@rar, such passion Little Angel

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

On the same token, you could compare your shoulders to the doors of a barn: not that wide but equally weak. wink

I think the problem here is that we think that most people who go skiing are totally inactive the year, and just get interested in fitness a month before ski holidays. I really think it is strongly advisable to do general fitness training the WHOLE year (for your general health) and prior to the ski holidays some specific ski-strength-endurance exercises including further build up of balance and core strength.

Help!!

Burning Thighs

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Bend ze Knees