 Poster: A snowHead
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CEM:
As one of the more experienced members of this community I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that we appreciate you helping to educate the rest of us with the wealth of experience. The reason I've created this thread is to clear up some conflicting advice that you've given me with regards to stretching as I want to a) get it right and b) make sure others haven't got as confused as me and are doing it incorrectly.
When I visited your shop, (Solutions For Feet - Bicester) we talked about stretching for thighs, calves and ankles and you suggested that you not stretch before a run. Your reasoning being that a muscles primary movement is to contract and if you stretch it, its ability to contract is reduced. (So far that seems logical) You said to wait until afterwards, make sure you hold each stretch for 30-40 seconds and repeat 3 times each side. You website also recommends that you only stretch when you are warm such as this scenario.
The first question I have is, if it was the most beneficial to stretch afterwards and not before why do we see professional athletes spend a lot of time stretching before a game or event? Also, isn't there a chance that tendons need stretching before they are subjected to the rigours of exercise?
You also mention in a number of threads that to increase overall flexibilty a number of stretching excercises that should be done three times each side, three times a day. Ankle flexibility as one example of this. Surely this advice goes against your "only stretch when you are warm" advice as there is not way someone would warm up three times a day, so therefore you must be advocating a "cold stretch."
Would you be so kind as to clear up this confusion and state what you and S4F official guide to stretching is please? Whether it should only be a "warm" or can you use "cold" stretches.
Would you advocate stretching before a day on the slopes or after the first run?
Thank you for your time.
Anyone else, please feel free to comment.
Powderhunter
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PowderHunter, how about warming up before stretching? Do a gentle run etc before stretching before the main event.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, That is precisely the question, CEM said not to stretch before a run as it is the worst thing you can do. I want to know his reasoning for that.
Also, there is rarely a main event more casual running a few times a week between 4-10K at a time. What do you do then, go for a run before your run? What about the 3x a day stretching he recommends, does that need you to be warm?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PowderHunter, I would have thought going for a gentle jog to the end of the road, then doing your stretches might be the way to do it. We'll need to wait and find out from CEM.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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http://www.suppleworx.co.uk/
website address for Martin Jefferies, who does stretching workshops in London. Very well worth doing. He is also very good at remedial massage to deal with specific problems. I do try to stretch a lot, especially after skiing, and never normally suffer from stiff muscles, even after a tough day's skiing. (No connection with Jefferies, just a satisfied customer).
I suspect those athletes you see on the track, stretching before an event, have not just come from an hour on the sofa with a can of beer. They are going to be warmed up. They are also professional athletes, not mere mortals. That means that they (like professional mogul skiers) probably think nothing of completely knackering themselves before they are 25, to win a medal. Many professional sportspeople suffer from arthritis comparatively early in life, as a result of the early extreme abuse of their joints. Probably not good role models.
For the rest of us, the key things are to be gentle, progressive, no bouncing, and hold at least 30 seconds. Martin Jefferies teaches some techniques to make stretching more effective, and less likely to hurt you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sports medics used to advise stretching before a run, but now generally don't unless the athletic activity will take your joints into extreme range of movement (Unlikely on skis or a board I would think). Athletes who pre stretch will have warmed up first, often for more than half an hour of incremental activity.
Stretching after activity helps keep muscle length preserved, so preventing tears with the next activity, can move out waste products (but not as efficiently as a massage or even the hydrostatic pressure of a swimming pool or jacuzzi), but doesn't help with delayed onset muscle stiffness - the pain you get after overdoing the exercise. Once a day is no less effective than several times a day some recent good quality research has shown, but these stretches need to be held for 30-40 seconds each.
So what do I do? Yes I generally stretch a bit in the first lift queue, but I will have walked 10 -15 mins to get to that point, warming me up a bit. I'm more likely to swing my legs and get warm, perhaps stretching any niggly points (without much scientific thought I muyst say) If I remember I will do some more later in the day, but I save my main stretching until the end of the day after the Jacuzzi, including the back which suffers after a week of high energy skiing. If I'm with the family we tend to go quite slow, and I forget about stretching almost completely.
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As mentioned above, general consensus in running these days is not to strech cold muscles. Maybe a gentle one after a warm up, and a post-stretch (Which I'm very good at when running, rubbish at when skiing - it usually occurs to me that I haven't stretched around the second beer  )
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it usually occurs to me that I haven't stretched around the second beer
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how long after the exercise does it make sense to leave the stretching? Is it still worthwhile if done much later, e.g. at bedtime? One of the advantages of catered chalets, I found, was sitting round having tea and cake presented ideal opportunities for stretching - and if one person remembered, the rest would have a go.
However, if someone has very tight muscles, especially big ones like hamstrings and quads, a few stretches after skiing, whilst better than nothing, won't achieve much. Needs work for weeks before. Anyone who habitually wears heels ought to stop doing so - which in itself will provide a good stretch. Anyone who wears heels all the time should probably give up their hamstrings as a bad job. I find that cleaning teeth will electric toothbrush (2 minute buzzer) provides ideal opportunity for stretching hamstrings and calves. One lot in the morning, the other in the evening.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This all seems to make sense, cold is o good, warm is best for minor stretching and just after exercise for the long stetches to get the most benefit.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| PowderHunter, I would have thought going for a gentle jog to the end of the road, then doing your stretches might be the way to do it. We'll need to wait and find out from CEM. |
It takes a good 10 to 15 minutes to thoroughly warm the muscles, and they quickly cool down again. So really you need to do your stretches as soon as you've finished the activity.
This whole question is a bit of a mine field though, as there are plenty of physios out there giving people stretches to do, and I doubt most people are warming up before doing them. I suppose you have to remember that stretching cold muscles only increases the risk of injury rather than guaranteeing it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Very gentle stretches (if I can be bothered) immediately upon rising, to get rid of the stiffness caused by overnight immobility: it would be a short, 7-8 minute routine, including a few Canadian Army exercises & some cat stretches. Ski all day. Immediately on return (means not staying in the pub too long  ) have a swim if possible, or a jacuzzi (don't like them, but it's better than nothing) and a sauna or steam - if none of those three were available I'd be seriously unhappy. Then, all muscles being delightfully warm/soothed by the swimming etc, 20 mins or so of Pilates, my routine covers top-to-toe stretching, as well as some core strength work, and incorporates most of CEM's leg stretches. Sorted. Works for me, anyway. This all takes time, though, and the shower/titivating at the end of it all tends to encroach on pre-prandial drinking time, which would be a disadvantage for some.  By supper-time, this regime usually has me parachuting into my soup, I'm so tired; luckily, I tend to revive in time to catch up on drinking previously missed. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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wow, i only came across this one by accident been kind of busy
warm up muscles before exercise using dymanic motions lunges walking gentle jog etc etc, the long stretches should be done after exercise for general use and in the instance od someone who we put on a stretching regime to solve a tight calf prior to skiing then so long as they are not going from a seditary sit for an hour prior to stretching then all should be fine.... the main reason for not stretching prior to a run is as has been stated that muscles when they have been stretched do not have the tension in them to fully contract and give rebound, this is particularily important to sprinters hurdlers etc where they need explosive power
think that answers the question
but simply warm muscles will stretch more easily than cold ones and you wouldn't want to be beaten by a drugs cheat in the sprint because you had no explosive power would you
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