 Poster: A snowHead
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Had a first off piste lesson at weekend. It hadn't snowed for 2 weeks, so the conditions were a mixture of powder, crusty stuff, moguls, heavy snow patches.
I found the heavy snow patches the most difficult causing a lot of pressure, harder turns, and more tired legs. It was also difficult to keep the skis together. The instructor suggested trying a snow plough turn and then bring the inside ski across in these conditions as it helped due to the heavy snow.
Sound normal?
Of course the instructor had no trouble keeping his skis together 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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imo yes. When off piste don't worry about "looking good", survival is what it's all about 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds like a stem turn. It's not pretty but can get you through and down almost anything. It's to offpiste what sideslipping is to on-piste - a sort of 'get out of jail free card'. Was once on an offpiste course where an older member of the group used this technique a lot of the time. Someone criticised how it looked but then someone else pointed out he hadn't needed to pick himself or his skis out of the snow yet.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 20-02-08 11:51; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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That's what I always do when the going gets tough.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How does it help with heavy snow though off piste? Just because it slows everything down or so that you don't build up looads of snow underneath and go over the top of yourself?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GordonFreeman, not quite sure that I understand but one aspect I guess is that when you try to turn both legs/feet/skis together (parallel) in heavy snow it's quite hard work, whereas a stem gives you the downhill ski as a platform to stand against whilst you move the uphill one?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 20-02-08 12:11; edited 1 time in total
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One of Phil Smith's videos illustrates this technique very clearly - he lifts the outside ski and "places" it very strongly, giving himself a "head start" on the turn, on steep terrain. He suggests practising it on easy terrain first, because it takes a bit of commitment. I've been trying to do that. The "Skier's Edge" book also suggests starting turns in the powder with a stem. So did easiski, I seem to remember. So yes, we have it on very good authority that, as DB, says, its a "get out of jail free card"
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A quote from Wayne Watson's "Off Piste":- Stem turns off-piste are an advanced manoeuvre. Do not be afraid to use them on steep slopes in place of a jump turn. They are also an excellent way of testing delicate snow to see whether or not you want to try pivoting from a parallel stance."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's my stock "get down anything" turn....I often use it for a first turn to control speed and see what the snow is like, it ain't pretty but it works!
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Do not be afraid to use them on steep slopes in place of a jump turn.
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That's why I am practising on easier slopes - so I can do it on steeps, or difficult snow, or whatever in future. I don't have the stamina or coordination to do jump turns, cool as they look.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w,
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That's why I am practising on easier slopes - so I can do it on steeps, or difficult snow, or whatever in future. I don't have the stamina or coordination to do jump turns, cool as they look.
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If you can - practise jump turms too - there are times when a jump turn is more use, but that doesn't mean you have to do them all the time
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ski, yes, I'm sure I should, and I do try. Any tips? Jump off the top ski, or both?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, Top ski. A strong short radius turn is a good tool too !
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Poster: A snowHead
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Okay, so STEM CHRISTIE vs PARALLEL turns?
Parallel all the way through seems to be host most ski and the stem christie / phantom move to bring the inside ski parallel used very rarely but it makes it eay in more difficult conditions?
http://ski-jungle.com/better-skiing/ch2.htm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GordonFreeman, that ski jungle site is rubbish IMO....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
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Do not be afraid to use them on steep slopes in place of a jump turn.
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That's why I am practising on easier slopes - so I can do it on steeps, or difficult snow, or whatever in future. I don't have the stamina or coordination to do jump turns, cool as they look. |
Jump turns do not have to be as energetic as you might think. In most cases you only have to jump the skis part way round, unlike guys you see doing one hundred and eighty degree turns on extreme skiing videos.
In most steep conditions starting with both skis parallel and horizontal, I find I can begin the turn normally for about five degrees or more, followed by a small jump to get around the next twenty degrees. At that point you are through the fall line and maximum point of accelaration and can complete the turn normally.
It does not have to be a huge jump either. A small hop to lift the tails will do and in any case if you jump too high you increase the force of the landing.
Once you can do it, it is probably less physical than trying to power your way through a turn more quickly than is natural.
I still also use stem like turns at times as well though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| ski, yes, I'm sure I should, and I do try. Any tips? Jump off the top ski, or both? |
Jump with the leg which is most flexed as the most flexed leg will be the stronger leg (from the gospel according to Phil Smith!). On a steep slope that will usually be the uphill ski, but not always depending on how you finished the previous turn.
Even when jumping off one ski, I do find I have to make a conscious effort to lift the other one round as well, otherwise it does not come round enough and can block the turn.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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"Situational Stem" turn, as DB, says
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| 'get out of jail free card' |
Very handy to have in the back pocket, when things get really nasty.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The big bonus of the 'survival stem-step' is that it gets you through the first half of the turn in balance (hopefully) and with minimal speed build up. The first half is normally where people get themselves screwed up & out of balance in tricky snow conditions.
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As with all these things, best practiced by doing it....if you have skied these situations a bit, you'll devise something that works, IMO.
I don't agree with a snowplough turn tho' in heavy stuff... but then doubt he really meant that...a little stem, for sure....
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Another vote for the step turns here.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is music to my ears. I was doing both step and stem turns (the choice was made purely by instinct) on my recent off piste course, and staying upright. It was only when vanity got the better of me, and I tried pretty and parallel, that the wipe-outs became increasingly less pretty.
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FAQ
Handy thing to have kind of like a safty blanket for kids 
