 Poster: A snowHead
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Just got back from our school ski trip to St Sorlin D'Arves. One of the kids who was a beginner takes a crash into a wall of snow 15m from the foot of the slpoe and is a bit upset. More at the shock of the fall than anything else and is crying etc. the UCPA instructor calls the rescue team who come up from their hut 15 m away. In the mean time i have arrived and talk to the boy. He says 'Sir i'm fine now' I'll get up and walk to the bottom (all of 15m) He tells this to the girl who has come to rescue him. So do i. I tell her there is no need for any rescue. She insists on calling up a sled and splint for his leg to take him down. He is now moving his leg saying 'honestly i'm fine i just whacked my thigh' They wouldn't let him up. Strapped the leg and skied him down the piste (all of 15m) to a waiting ambulance. Where he is whisked off to the medical centre. I run to medical centre and meet him there where he is sitting in a wheel chair laughing saying that there is nothing wrong. He tells the doctor as do i that he is fine and can move everything etc. Doctor insists on x ray to see if thigh bone is broken!!
Anyway to cut long story short we are landed with 217 euro bill for rescue, 200 euro bill for medical centre and 50 euro bill for pharacy all for a slightly bruised thigh.
I know on most occasions its better to be safe than sorry but this seemed rediculous. Insurance will cover hopefully but the claims process is hard because there was nothing wrong with him.
Anyone have any similar experiences?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| garethjomo wrote: |
Anyway to cut long story short we are landed with 217 euro bill for rescue, 200 euro bill for medical centre and 50 euro bill for pharacy all for a slightly bruised thigh.
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So what did the pharmacy provide - unneeded painkillers?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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garethjomo,
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So what did the pharmacy provide - unneeded painkillers?
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it's difficult to escape from the presence of any French doctor without at least 3 prescriptions for drugs/ointments/supports/pessaries etc. We have several times got hold of antibiotics (which were needed) but not bothered with the rest.
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er, how far up the slope were you? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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garethjomo, substitute the names and resort and you've just about summed up my experience last week with my son. But I got stung 295 euros for his sledge ride! I'd love to think that our litigious society forces them into prudency but I can't help thinking their beancounter managers are applying targets and pressure from on high.
If I take the philosophical stance, all was ok, he received excellent treatment and the insurer was superb, clearing everything through a phone call, they faxed payment guarantees to the doctor and lifties within minutes - I just paid the first 70 euros to the doctor (Direct Travel/AIG if you're interested - also covers just about all stupid activities everywhere).
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| pam w wrote: |
| We have several times got hold of antibiotics (which were needed) but not bothered with the rest. |
Just out of interest, what did you need the antibiotics for?
My experience of French resort doctors has been universally poor. They overtreat, misdiagnose, do too many x-rays of very poor quality and over prescribe.
In this case, if everything is as reported, x-raying a child who can walk on his leg is inexcusable in my opinion.
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I can understand the secouristes wanting to take the young man down once called, if there had been a problem later they may have been in trouble. However the doctor sounds like outright profiteering... but then I'm not a doctor and you could have a minor fracture (although maybe not a broken thigh) and because your muscles are warm still be able to move. All part of our H&S culture maybe?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, not with a fracture femur.
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Just out of interest, what did you need the antibiotics for
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my husband is a diabetic and becomes very badly affected by chest infections, which is what he had. We've seen a few of these episodes, over the years. He started recovering within about 48 hours of starting the antibiotics but he didn't need anything else (including cough mixture!!).
The time we really needed medical input, after a visitor with a history of brain tumour/surgery bashed his head, we got what I thought was very sensible response. Different doctor - spoke a lot less English but also (reportedly) drank a lot less whisky. Listened, asked questions, spent time assessing, said he thought it was just concussion, sent me off with list of signs to look out for and strict instructions to call ambulance and get him into Albertville for a scan if necessary. Our resort has struggled to get a doctor - I guess it's neither very lucrative nor very challenging, as a job - and what do you do the rest of the year?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm always very suspicious of the term "chest infection". 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Did I just read not too long ago that only off-piste resucue are charged? 
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| Kramer wrote: |
| x-raying a child who can walk on his leg is inexcusable in my opinion. |
I had a bad fall the season before last.
I skied down.
Took myself to the doctors.
Was X-Rayed and diagnosed as fine.
Three weeks later I found out I had a broken leg.
It can go the other way with these things.
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You know it makes sense.
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PhillipStanton I'm not sure what the point that you're making is?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I tell her there is no need for any rescue. She insists on calling up a sled and splint for his leg to take him down. He is now moving his leg saying 'honestly i'm fine i just whacked my thigh' They wouldn't let him up. Strapped the leg and skied him down the piste (all of 15m) to a waiting ambulance. Where he is whisked off to the medical centre. I run to medical centre and meet him there where he is sitting in a wheel chair laughing saying that there is nothing wrong. He tells the doctor as do i that he is fine and can move everything etc. Doctor insists on x ray to see if thigh bone is broken!!
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garethjomo, You could always have just told them all to naff off, that it was a false alarm etc. You didn't have to agree to their "insisting". Maybe you got bills simply because you allowed them to carry out their kidnapping and their procedures.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, that's how I feel now but, when my little lad howled when he put pressure on his leg, I just wanted what was best for him. They were quite insistent though...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, OK, OK. I have had to deal with quite a lot of this over the years, some of it in Africa and out of easy reach of doctors. Coughing up green phlegm, high sugars, breathing painful, ill. Lungs not been good for a long time, and possibly more prone to infection after being stopped for some hours for surgery five years ago (and subsequently relieved of litres of fluid). Whatever you call it, he needed antibiotics. He typically knows it before the doctors can hear anything. They send him away to see how it goes, he goes back after another four days, iller. Gets the antibiotics, on one occasion after emergency admission, badly ketosed, into the Nairobi Hospital. Not all patients are idiots. I fully recognise that antibiotics are over-prescribed, but that doesn't mean they are not also prescribed correctly. And sometimes even by French resort doctors...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kramer wrote: |
In this case, if everything is as reported, x-raying a child who can walk on his leg is inexcusable in my opinion. |
Why?
I remember when my daughter, aged about 7 at the time, broke her ankle on the way to Leeds on New year's eve.
She walked around on it for four days, complaining but walking, until we decided we had better take her to casualty after we got back home and she was still complaining it hurt.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| PhillipStanton I'm not sure what the point that you're making is? |
That being able to walk doesn't always mean that it's not broken.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would be astonished if the resort management anywhere was putting targets on the secouristes. Under the French medical system however I would be astonished if the local doctors were not - in exactly the same way as happens to spectacular effect in the UK - gaming the system.
I could also easily believe that if the ski patrol are called out - then they might required to "finish the job" - but I don't think this is France or Europe wide - having had instances where after an on slope inspection they've patted the patient on the head and suggested skiing on.
Also, we've had two "events" this year reqiuring me to visit Chamonix/Sallanches hospital and 4 client "events" and the treatment, service and care has been nothing other than excellent.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| davidof, not with a fracture femur. |
no not with a fractured femur
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We had one kid visit hospital in Austria last week. Decided that she was well enough to get a taxi, so that cost €14. Hospital treated her for free, all we had to do was fax a copy of her EHIC as we'd forgotten to take it with us.
In Italy last year we had a kid helecoptered off the mountain. Again, no cash was handed over, just the kids address. A bill was later sent to him, which he passed straight on to the insurers.
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For what its worth, and this is the story from the other side.I am lucky enough do some volunteer work for one of the ambulances. We mainly cover mountain bike / car racing / horse / soccer etc events (voluntary) - the 'ones where you need an ambulance at the bottom of the hill' stuff as someone put it. I will happily bow to superior medical knowledge, but if the child is in pain weight bearing then the only way to know for certain is x ray. From reading above and my own personal experience there are always exceptions to prove the rule, from the soccer player stretched off for strategic reasons, to the driver heading out with a suspected broken back having to be cut out of the car in the pits. (that was a fun afternoon)
From my own personal 'events' on the slopes I did discover a good healthy first aid knowledge helped a lot. (stress 'healthy' as one of the last times i fell i was almost disappointed it was not broken it hurt so much...  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PhillipStanton, but your story is that having an X-ray that says you're fine doesn't always mean that it's not broken either. Same difference?
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Agree that being able to walk doesn't always exclude a fracture, but usually if there is one, then it's pretty minor. In the case above we're apparently talking about an x-ray of the thigh bone. If as reported, the child was able to walk and saying that he was fine, then I don't think that there really would be a need to x-ray his femur.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There is no reason from the rescue team's or the doc's point of view not to do everything they can think of. They make a few bob and avoid any accusation of negligence. All that happens is that our premiums go up, not their problem.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, apart from the fact that it's bad medicine and potentially dangerous.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, a combination of insurance and increasing litigousness (sp?) makes that approach at least more likely, I'd say inevitable. They're only human (only just in some cases).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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richmond, agreed. One of the major problems of a private insurance based system of health care.
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Poster: A snowHead
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sproggski, thank you for your mention of Direct Travel/AIG - I just looked them up to get a quote and have gone ahead - very reasonable cover (actually cheapest I have found) and at least I know - from your report- that I'm not compromising anything by going with the cheapest option!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Alastair Pink, The pharmacy provided pain killers, ok fair enough. Anti inflamatory ok again. Then a small pill to take three times every hour to stop the bruise coming out too bad. Any doctors enlighten me to the need of this? Seemed a bit cosmetic to me. The doctor actually told me 'it will make the bruise not look so bad' Not sure if something was lost in translation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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garethjomo, I have no idea what that may be.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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garethjomo, no idea what it is and not a practice used in the UK
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Arnica, maybe?
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Elizabeth B, that's what I thought. But as it has no evidence base whatsoever I don't think a doctor should be prescribing it.
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