Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Climbing and Skiing Mont Blanc in April - newbie queries???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi There,

A query to the more experienced here who may or may not have climbed Mont Blanc and Skied down, but who would have a fair idea of what’s involved, regardless.

A group of friends are planning a 9 day trip with a guide in April to do just this. My experience of this kind of thing is limited to date. I have really only been skiing off piste for 4 or so years and I have limited to no mountaineering or climbing experience at all. Having said that I do go skiing 3+ times a year, and have managed a fair bit of high altitude off piste at this stage e.g. Argentiere, Grands Montets (grande face, couloirs to Arg glaciere, etc, vallee blanche from either side), Verbier: Mont Fort (over the top), Stairway to Heaven, Various routes in St Anton, Some tree skiing, etc. I’m in reasonable shape and don’t suffer from too much of a fear factor. However I have only once abseiled, never done any real climbing, never skinned (despite having kit in ruck sack a few times) and never slept in hut or at altitude. Also while I am reasonably fit & athletic, I have a rugby players physique, so I am strong and heavy as opposed to more agile and lithe like most climbers are.

Would I be mad to consider this trip???

If I were to consider it what kind of training will I require to do??

What is the best way to prepare for sleeping and exerting at altitude??

Is there any fitness test or climbing test and/or both that I could set myself as a minimum standard to reach before attempting it.

I am planning a trip to St Anton in March regardless & there is a training weekend for the climb. Also there are a few pre-climatisation and training days in April (4 say), but still I feel I may be attempting this a little undercooked. What are other's experience of doing this??
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
From my limited knowledge and not having done it myself...

No, not mad.

General good fitness is your pre-requisite. You will need to spend a few days at altitude acclimatising. That's one of the reasons for 9 days. Weather is another.

Quote:
What is the best way to prepare for sleeping and exerting at altitude??
Sleep and exercise at altitude.

A chum did it in the summer with no training and virtually no acclimatisation. I'm not advocating this but he coped.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
horgand, .... welcome to snowHeads .... Very Happy snowHead

This link to Mountaintracks Mont Blanc trip requirements may be of some help to you decide. You don't mention who your guide is, but if you haven't settled on one yet, then I would seriously advise you to consider Mountaintracks. ( SnowHead helinick, Nick Parks is one of Mountaintracks owners).

In addition to fitness and skills issues, Mont Blanc can be a very dangerous place and it has claimed many lives in the past. I am very fussy about guides in tricky places and have managed to keep a hop-step-and jump ahead of the reaper so far .... Toofy Grin

I am intending to do this trip in April. PM me if I can be of any further help.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Depends on which route you take as well. A Heli drop on the Italian side and its a easy slog to the top. The 3 Mont blancs route is harder and requires more mountaineering skills, but is probably the most asthetic route, There is russian roulette route from the grand Mullets and its seracs - less favoured by guides these days I Think
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks for replies thus far. Norris I think we are looking at the 3 Mont Blancs Route, so while most aesthetic it will be bloody tiring from what I hear.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
yep - worth the effort....who wants to use a helicopter!

9 days should give you plenty of acclimitisation. make sure you spent some nights at altitude, ie Cosmiques refuge - this should really help.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hi.

I've climbed Mont Blanc twice via Three Monts. It's a fantastic day out-personally, by far the best of the 'standard' ways up. But it is long-something like 1400 m of ascent (and more if you return the same way), with a high proportion of this above 4000 m. Mont Maudit Col is the only technical bit, but there is a lot of sloggin up steep snow slopes with potentially big slides if you trip over your crampons. But with a guide and a head for heights, most people are OK.

Acclimatisation is personal-I've never had any problems, but climbers fitter than me, have. So don't take chances and assume that it will be OK-particularly if you've shelling out a load of money for a guide. Oh, and I'm an ex-rugby player too!

As David Murdoch said, you've got to go fit-I go climbing in the Alps for a couple of weeks most summers, prepare by running 5-6 miles (with plenty of uphill sections), and as I get fitter, try and run it faster rather than go further.

If you need to acclimatise, it's all about time-I would suggest sleeping a night or two at the Cosmiques, and doing as much as you can at altitude beforehand.

Then it's down to the weather!

Good luck!
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the great advice, offers of further advice and general well wishes.

I must say I am now very tempted altogether, these opportunities don't come around every day after all.

cheers,
horgand

p.s. must dig out the mountain bike and prepare for 2 months jogging & running into the anaerobic zone...lovely Smile
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've never done ski mountaineering, but doing alpine mountaineering in the summer the only time I've felt truly fit doing it has been when I've been reliably able run a half marathon in under 1.45, and a marathon in 3.45. Any less fit than that and it is bloody hard work. That said - if you have the chance go for it - any responsible guide won't take you if you are not up to it anyway.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Acclimatisation is personal-I've never had any problems, but climbers fitter than me, have. So don't take chances and assume that it will be OK


This is exactly right. I've not climbed Mont Blanc but I've been up a few of the lower peaks in summer (including Mont Blanc du Tacul) and I ski toured the Gd Paradiso last year (4200m from the road at 1800m - over three days). Oh and 5 or 6 years ago I walked up Kilimanjaro (nearly 6000m).

A nine-day trip should be sufficient to give you the skinning and ropework skills before you go for the summit. It sounds like you are a decent enough off-piste skier. I'd guess that you will be fit enough but it is a bit of a lottery. If it was me, I want to spend a couple of nights above 3000m a few days ahead of the climb. I'd also want to do a chunk of skinning above 3000m and ideally a trip above 4000m. Your guide will no what to suggest but a night at Cosmiques followed by a trip up the Tacul then another night at Cosmiques would probably be a good training trip.

In our group on the Gd Paradiso, I had the least touring experience but was going strongly until I got to 4000m or so. The last 200m of altitude were hard - difficult to control my heart rate. After the little bit of climbing on the summit ridge and some lunch, I was fine for the ski down. Of course you spend a lot longer/further above 4000m when you climb Mt Blanc.

I'd give it a go.

J
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
You won't know about the acclimatisation until you get there, but like people say, 9 days gives a good opportunity and a night or two in a high refuge will probably be on the cards to get you ready for staying up in the Cosmiques.

I'd advise plenty of cycling (with some hills) and maybe a bit of running. Endurance is the key IMO

Have fun - Mont Blanc is on my list of things to do on skis one of these days.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hi Folks,

I'm seeking the wise counsel of the snowheads community once more. A mate of mine, who is an excellent skier & I believe a good ski mountaineer is thinking of climbing & skiing Mont Blanc in late April this year. He has a legendary guide, a former head of Gendarmes des Montagnes rescue service in Mont Blanc for 10+ years, lined up to do it with him, who I've skied with before. He has asked myself & a good ski buddy of mine to do it with him. My queries are:

- is it worth doing?
(versus say a week in the fjords of Norway say, or going cat ski skiing in Canada)
- are my 2 skiining days & 2 days using a rope really enough ski mountaineering to go for it?
- my ski buddy also has very little ski mountaineering experience, is 2 out of 4 newbies too many??

General: there is significant depth hoare in the snow pack this year, and the snow base has been very patchy
- is this more dangerous than a normal year?
- are slides far more likely to occur? (& be more extensive maybe?)
- are serac falls more likely?
- would you do it this year, if you were me?
- ideally should we wait for another year with a better snow base?

I realise these are big questions but I'd greatly appreciate advice on this.

horgand
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
horgand wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm seeking the wise counsel of the snowheads community once more. A mate of mine, who is an excellent skier & I believe a good ski mountaineer is thinking of climbing & skiing Mont Blanc in late April this year. He has a legendary guide, a former head of Gendarmes des Montagnes rescue service in Mont Blanc for 10+ years, lined up to do it with him, who I've skied with before. He has asked myself & a good ski buddy of mine to do it with him. My queries are:

- is it worth doing? Yes.
(versus say a week in the fjords of Norway say, or going cat ski skiing in Canada)
- are my 2 skiining days & 2 days using a rope really enough ski mountaineering to go for it? With a guide yes.
- my ski buddy also has very little ski mountaineering experience, is 2 out of 4 newbies too many?? That's up to the guide if he's happy you should be

General: there is significant depth hoare in the snow pack this year, and the snow base has been very patchy
- is this more dangerous than a normal year? No, there's so many other factors to take into account
- are slides far more likely to occur? (& be more extensive maybe?) No
- are serac falls more likely? No
- would you do it this year, if you were me? Yes
- ideally should we wait for another year with a better snow base? No, just do it.

I realise these are big questions but I'd greatly appreciate advice on this.

horgand


I've climbed Mont Blanc half a dozen times by different route, not skied it though. training wise, endurance, endurance, and more endurance. The three monts route is just a very long walk on snow no absailing needed. The guide will take care of the rope work all you have to do is keep on going.
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've climbed it but only from St. Gervais side and not in winter. I agree about endurance. 9 days should be plenty for acclimatization, unless you are an unlucky one - it's a very individual thing. We did it twice but each time one of the three of us would bail because of altitude sickness. The first time we did it was the first time in my life I saw crampons and ice axe.
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
horgand, what happened to the trip in 2008?

Personally I would say this year is more dangerous than normal.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
horgand wrote:

- is it worth doing?
(versus say a week in the fjords of Norway say, or going cat ski skiing in Canada)


those sound awesome and a lot more suitable to your current skill set.

guides make a living dragging people up mont blanc, but it doesn't mean you should go for it.

i'd be worried about your lack of ski touring experience. to get up and down safely you need to be fast and effecient with all aspects of ski-mountaineering. and for mont blanc out and out slogging at high altitude, that's the main part!

you shouldn't need to abseil anything and when you do rope up your guide should make it all easier for you.

horgand wrote:

General: there is significant depth hoare in the snow pack this year, and the snow base has been very patchy
- is this more dangerous than a normal year?
- are slides far more likely to occur? (& be more extensive maybe?)
- are serac falls more likely?
- would you do it this year, if you were me?
- ideally should we wait for another year with a better snow base?


depth hoar generally doesn't form on glaciers, but if you go from plan d'aiguille to the grand mullets that can be dodgey.

today is warm, next week who knows, when you come, who know's?

if it's warm there is of course a high risk of seracs falling , but its a lottery. however this is one of the main reasons you need to be fast and effecient. if you reach the summit too late the descent can be very dangerous. hopefully though if you were in danger of time related issues your guide would make you turn around before the summit.

if i were you it would be more enjoyable rather than a horrendous slog/drag with better fitness and ski-mountaineering experience. but if you get the weather window to ski mont blanc then you should definetly go for it! that's a lot of descedning to be enjoy!
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've climbed Mont Blanc to ski twice (2nd trip is on here somewhere) both up the Trois Monts and down the Face Nord to Grand Mulets.

Sounds like you are going about this the right way. The advice from others is sound. It's all about the slog up not the ski down.

In an average April its a crampon walk up not a skin anyway.

Just to reitarate what others have said. It's about fitness.

Best of luck Tom
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
OliC wrote:
guides make a living dragging people up mont blanc


Not really. Guides will take your money and if they conclude you aren't fit enough to complete the route quickly enough to be safe, will lead you back down the hill. Which is fair enough and happens all the time.

I realise the rest of your post was making much the same points about fitness and experience.

To the OP, at the time of my own forays into alpine climbing, I was running regularly, including runs in walking boots and carrying a load, hillwalking and was probably faster than 80% of those I'd encounter on British hills. I rapidly learned that wasn't fit enough. Plenty climb MB, fewer enjoy the experience and most of them aren't lugging skis up the mountain. If I were you, I'd get in some little ticks before deciding whether you want to go for the big one.

Rock climbers are agile and lithe (which kind of described me before middle age). Alpine climbers can carry a load through long, long days and are prepared to put up with prolonged discomfort. Not the same thing.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Looked into doing this about to years ago, and vis a vis dogwatch's post, I agree, had a french guide who I had skied with previously lined up and he advised against coming out due to what he had seen a few days previously in terms of snow conditions on the north face. That was advice that cost him a grand and was given for free so I was happy to have someone like him advising me.

OP I can't make the decision for you but I would say that I think it's definitely worth doing sometime but is also something you'll be able to do well into your 60s so no hurry in doing it this year (if I'm not mistaken idris' climb, which you you should search for was with one of chamonix's better known older skiers Very Happy ) particularly if the snow isn't great.

On the other hand no time like the present etc and while I was seriously looking into this two years ago and was ready to go, had a baby thereafter and my priorities changed a bit, suspect it'll be a long time before I can do it again.
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've done it in April via les 3 Monts. It is not technical, although the climb to the col du Mont Maudit is long and of sustained steepness (you'd go a LONG way in an uncontrolled slide!).

It is mostly about fitness, experience isn't terribly important. People on my trip with minimal experience and little fitness preparation made it to the top (equally, someone on his 4th attempt, who had trained hard, didn't). I'd suggest endurance running or cycling with some intervals or hills sprints mixed-in to boost lung capacity / VO2 Max.

Oh, and don't, whatever you do, put extra "energy powder" in your water "because it's summit day". Oh no, that would be a stupid thing to do. Mild altitude sickness = nausea = can't drink sugary crap = DEHYDRATION = more altitude sickness = etc.....
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Hi Folks,

Thanks for all replies, they have been an education in themselves. Great posts with some very wise advice. I really enjoyed the Mont Blanc trip report by Idris, top class.

thanks again,
horgand

p.s. if interested, please keep the discussion going
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A XC instructor I had lessons with, some years ago, was a mountain guide in summer. He described taking an 80 year old up Mont Blanc - with the proviso that the man's friend, a much younger man and a doctor, came too, so that the guide had no responsibility for any health-related issues. He said they went slowly - took an extra day over the usual trip - and it was a great success - the realisation of a lifetime's dream. I imagine a lot depends on how you respond to altitude; some very strong and fit people are slayed by it, some unfit and lazy people have no problem.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Horgand : This book is worth a look and will answer many of your questions.
You are on the right track.
Fitness / good weather window / preparation are key.

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/cord-mont-blanc-5-routes-p108334
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
How technical is the ski down Mont Blanc, compared to other stuff in Chamonix for example? Can you ski all the way from the top down onto the Vallee Blanche and then back to town?
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Steve77, that isn't the standard ski route but I know someone who has skied down that way having climbed up on the Italian side
latest report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Steve77 wrote:
How technical is the ski down Mont Blanc, compared to other stuff in Chamonix for example? Can you ski all the way from the top down onto the Vallee Blanche and then back to town?


Mont Blanc if skied form the summit is about the same (changes by year and large weather event) difficulty as the Pas de Chevre or The Grand Envers - a fair bit tougher than the Classic Vallee Blanche but easier than the Couloir Cosmique or Glacier Rond.

No you can't really ski non stop from the top to the VB, the Col Brenva to the Shoulder of Mt Maudit would be uphill as would getting over the Shoulder of Mt Blanc de Tacul.

You can ski all the way to Town via the Glacier de Bossons.

The biggest decent you can do is all the way to Le Fayet - which if memory serves is the largest (vertical) ski decent ever skied - bit tough though as you need snow all the way to the valley bottom and you have to ski one of the Couloirs on the North West side of Aiguille du Gouter and while being easier than the north face route on the Midi (Eugster, Mallory etc) it's a fair bit tougher than the Cosmiques or Rond
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Idris wrote:
You can ski all the way to Town via the Glacier de Bossons.


Really? I'm amazed. I've walked some of it in summer. Very broken-up. Image (which I don't seem to be able to embed here). http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=dl1JG6FvgaUejM&tbnid=nYtkhZhwFet1lM:&ved=0CAgQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdaily.epictv.com%2Fblog%2F2012%2F07%2F31%2Fthe-game-rules-of-the-mountains-change-in-symbiosis-with-the-climate%2F&ei=q_gEU_bcA4OshQenv4DACg&psig=AFQjCNH06GvK1yZ3sQcx814zLWZsX0Rplg&ust=1392921131182099
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
dogwatch wrote:
Idris wrote:
You can ski all the way to Town via the Glacier de Bossons.


Really? I'm amazed. I've walked some of it in summer. Very broken-up. Image (which I don't seem to be able to embed here). http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=dl1JG6FvgaUejM&tbnid=nYtkhZhwFet1lM:&ved=0CAgQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdaily.epictv.com%2Fblog%2F2012%2F07%2F31%2Fthe-game-rules-of-the-mountains-change-in-symbiosis-with-the-climate%2F&ei=q_gEU_bcA4OshQenv4DACg&psig=AFQjCNH06GvK1yZ3sQcx814zLWZsX0Rplg&ust=1392921131182099


You only ski on the glacier until about 2200 m altitude the you ski to the side of it down to Chalet De Cerro. Some years there has been some interesting bits through the seracs.

It's only been a viable route for the last 6 years or so.
snow conditions
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
[b]horgand[/b: Mt Blanc vs cat skiing in Canada?? Hmmm.....Tough choice - but to add my two penn'orth, I've done 8 days (total) catskiing in BC with 3 different operators....One word: Mindblowing! Only problem is that piste skiing and off piste are then never the same again and all you want to do is cat ski!

In terms of fitness, as well as mountain biking & running, Mrs MA & I get fit for ski touring in winter/alpine summits in summer with a bit of UK hillwalking (Lakes & Scottish Highlands). A further tip is to carry a pack that's about twice as heavy as you think your expedition pack will be! It always ends up heavier than you think for the actual trip!!
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks, that's interesting info. So when is the best time of year for a ski descent, and on the way up is it mostly skinning or do you end up carrying your skis the whole way? It's a really tempting idea
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Idris wrote:
You can ski all the way to Town via the Glacier de Bossons.......


You only ski on the glacier until about 2200 m altitude the you ski to the side of it down to Chalet De Cerro. Some years there has been some interesting bits through the seracs.

It's only been a viable route for the last 6 years or so.


Interesting, thanks.

Climate change sceptics should visit the terminal end of glacier in summer, IMO. Quite amazing how far it has retreated. 1200m in a century.
snow conditions



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy