 Poster: A snowHead
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sarah, Mirabell is the most common! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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MissRibena, I think the French pronunciation of Flaine is nearer to "flenn" than "flayne". I would guess that Morillon is pronounced "Moriyon". Whether you pronounce a double l varies. You do in "ville" but not in "fille"!! That's one to ask a local, maybe.
And, FastEddie,it's not as easy as you suggest. Pllenty of Francophones pronounce the X on the end of Chamonix. So there! And do you know how to pronounce Val Thorens? I also don't agree that they're easy compared to the Austrian ones - I don't know of any Austrian ones which aren't pronounced in accordance with standard German rules. Though I'm sure there must be some, which I'd be interested to hear about. Like MissRibena, I always preferred German, not only because it's easier for Anglophones to pronounce, but because German speakers are always so impossibly polite - they complement you on your German however schreklich it is. The French? Very rarely!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, Pedant alert! I don't think 'flenn' does justice to the length of the vowel sound required and gives undue emphasis to the final consonant (assuming one is not, poetically, going to sound the final 'e.') If that's not pedantic, I don't know what is! Sorry! To add insult to injury, I'm unable to suggest a better transliteration. Maybe the 'ai' should be pronounced as in 'fair'?
My instinct on Morillon is the same as yours, but I've no idea whether that is correct locally. As for Thorens, I've never heard it pronounced other than with a sounded 's' but of course the second vowel sound can vary regionally: back to the Midi we go for 'Torangce'!
Can't opine on German pronunciation at all. Thank heavens for that! do I hear people say?
I've not found the French to be mean with compliments if someone's really trying hard.
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live in Morecambe and people spell it MorecOmbe Im really upset about it.
I feel your pane mountainaddict ( have you noticed what ive done)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, I too have noticed that locals pronounce it "Flenn".
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Hurtle, yes, fully agree. But flenn is better than flayne, which sounds reely onglayze. Short French vowel sounds are impossible to convey, and hard (for me at least) to copy - imagine trying to do a phonetic for "Claude".
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Actually, it's not at all surprising the locals call it Flenn. Compare, for example "ailes" (= wings). Pronounced, more or less, to rhyme with "tell". Not "tale"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Good job I asked! The only one I thought I was ok with was Flaine  I got my idea about pronouncing the double L in Morillon because that's how a chalet-owner pronounced it when I was ringing around for accomodation. Mind you, the lady in question had an English accent! It's going to add an interesting dimension to our hols.
I've mentioned before that MrRibena is Romanian and I jumped at the chance of learning a few words and stumbled on the joys of sensible, straight-forward Romanian spelling - even easier to figure out than German. He scoffs at the idea of spelling tests because the pronunciation consistently follows the rules so much, that I can read pages of Romanian phonetically without having a notion what's going on and sound great.
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| eng_ch wrote: |
Native English speakers hardly have the monopoly on committing typos - personally I would put good money on the web site A being a typo |
Well if it's a typo (which I doubt, it's more likely to be an English translation) then they're clearly not that fussed about the spelling of their own resort. How can they expect people to spell it "correctly" if they can't even be bothered themselves?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Can I just say that as a french person I found this thread fascinating!
Wish I had found it earlier! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Hurtle, yes, fully agree. But flenn is better than flayne, which sounds reely onglayze. Short French vowel sounds are impossible to convey, and hard (for me at least) to copy - imagine trying to do a phonetic for "Claude". |
There's always ASCII IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet, not India Pale Ale). From what you and Hurtle said it sounds like Flaine would be /flE:n/, where the E is the short e in "pet" and the colon indicates it's held longer.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kruisler, can you contribute some answers to the 'don't knows'? Auxerre, for example?
paulcl, wow, I've bookmarked that. A pedant's dream! That's exactly what I meant about Flaine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle,
personally I would pronounce Auxerre -> Oksair and my accent would mark the final r quite strongly and nearly also pronounce an "e"
I have also heard people say "Ossair"..
Morillon, I would have pronounced Moriyon..
Flaine is a trickier one. People from the south like me are seen by the "parisiens" as not pronouncing the difference between "ai" and "e" at times.. so I suppose "flen" or "flain" will be close enough anyway..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Brits also have dialect deviations. A few people sound the 'g as in get' part of the 'g' in 'sing' and 'singer', much to the amusement of us southerners...
The BIGGEST obstacle to French in my book is gender. But for that, I'd take pains to learn it. I'd be interested to know if there are any french who ever say 'luh' as somewhere between le and la, or 'uhn' as somewhere between 'un' and 'une' - because they aren't quite sure which it is...
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crosbie, I always think that the greatest north/south divide in England is not The Wash, but how people pronounce the word 'one'. I know lots of people, originally from the north but who have lived in the south for ages, who speak totally like southerners save for pronouncing 'one' so as to rhyme with 'gone.'
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| crosbie, I always think that the greatest north/south divide in England is not The Wash, but how people pronounce the word 'one'. I know lots of people, originally from the north but who have lived in the south for ages, who speak totally like southerners save for pronouncing 'one' so as to rhyme with 'gone.' |
Hang on...how do you weirdoes down South pronounce it? WAN? WEN? I'm confused....
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FastEddie, so as to rhyme with 'run'. 
Kruisler,
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Gender is never an issue for french people (I would think) because it's one of those things you grow up with
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Exactly. I don't have too much of a problem with gender (some words elude me from time to time of course, and they do even for French people) but that's because I started to learn the language at the same time as learning English, mostly by ear and before I started school. So, if it sounds right to me, then usually it is. That doesn't work with grammar/written French, though, and I do wish I had studied French as an academic subject beyond O-Level!  (Or that, like some other members of my family, I had been sent to the Lycee.)
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Kruisler, I realise that pretty much all french people grow up knowing masculine and feminine as well as their own names, but there must be new words that even french people come across from time to time (and in some rare occasions without being tipped off as to their gender by context, e.g. le/un/du). So, just as the english will sometimes wonder how to conjugate the verb focus, or what the plurals of hoof and roof are, I wonder whether a frenchman will EVER admit to being unsure as to a word's gender? Or will they fudge it?
Talking of 'one', a french woman I know seems to be unfamiliar with a french equivalent. She may be right, but I could have sworn there was such a thing. Isn't there a french word 'on' that means 'one' as in 'a person such as you or I'?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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crosbie, yes, one says "on". It's used all the time, sometimes instead of "they" as in "they've repaired the road" but more often instead of "we", as in "et si on va au cinema? Shall we go to the cinema? By the way, in English, the correct grammar is "a person such as you or me". Not I. You wouldn't say "a person such as I", would you?
I find that French people often correct the gender I use, if I get it wrong. That makes it easier to remember. Having once asked for "eau chaud" to be added to my coffee, and having the guy give me "eau chaude" I've always remembered that one. If I don't know, when I am buying or asking for something, I ask. In a context, and a phrase, it's so much easier than just sitting down in a vacuum.
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crosbie,
"on" as you describe does exist..It can mean "we" or the french equivalent of "one" as in "one might want to learn french".
The thing is it implies a group/several persons, so that is where you and your french friend might your wires crossed..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| MissRibena wrote: |
I've mentioned before that MrRibena is Romanian |
Ah, interesting, salutari!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, there is grammar and there is modern usage.
"One might assert grammar over modern usage"
"A person such as you or I might assert grammar over modern usage"
"A person such as I might assert grammar over modern usage"
"A person such as me might assert grammar over modern usage"
If you search Google for "such as I" and "such as me", the former is more popular by a factor of 10 to 1.
I'm happy for you to be grammatically correct, but the language I've learnt inclines me to spout otherwise - just as I gladly split infinitives. 
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| FastEddie wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| crosbie, I always think that the greatest north/south divide in England is not The Wash, but how people pronounce the word 'one'. I know lots of people, originally from the north but who have lived in the south for ages, who speak totally like southerners save for pronouncing 'one' so as to rhyme with 'gone.' |
Hang on...how do you weirdoes down South pronounce it? WAN? WEN? I'm confused.... |
I'm a southerner (and a bit of a weirdo) and I pronounce 'one' and 'won' in the same way, to rhyme with 'tun' (or 'ton').
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You know it makes sense.
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richmond,
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I'm a southerner (and a bit of a weirdo) and I pronounce 'one' and 'won' in the same way, to rhyme with 'tun' (or 'ton')
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Exactly. Me too (not sure about the weirdo bit!)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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crosbie,
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| So, just as the english will sometimes wonder how to conjugate the verb focus, or what the plurals of hoof and roof are, I wonder whether a frenchman will EVER admit to being unsure as to a word's gender? |
Yes, that's what I was getting at too, and I've certainly met French people who are sometimes stumped. I don't think they'd fudge it, though - that comes back to wanting to pronounce it nicely, whether it's right or wrong!
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there is grammar and there is modern usage
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Sock it to her, baby! No, seriously, I find an occasional dip into Fowler most salutary and it sometimes (but, alas, not always) prevents me from getting too arsey! I tend not to frequently split infinitives, though, I just don't like the sound of it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle, Fowler has a lot to answer for with regard to 'would' and 'should', persuading people that the meanings are inverted in the first person, e.g. "I would' meaning 'I am obliged to' and 'I should' meaning "I have a wish to' - when the reverse is more consistently conveyed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall_and_will
Shall/should = affirmative/obligation - always
Will/would = predictive/preference - always
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, If I gladly split infinitives, then I don't see why it sounds so bad for anyone else to gladly split infinitives. It would seem awkward to have to switch it around, e.g. "for anyone else to split infinitives gladly".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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crosbie, My brain hurts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Never mind French resorts.
It seems no one outside of West Yorkshire can pronounce town names like Keighley, Sowerby Bridge, Todmorden, Slaithwaite or Micklewaite correctly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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horizon, Buna Ziua!
We've seen your posts and were dying to ask you about skiing in Poiana Brasov and Sinaia (we have a dream of starting a chalet there someday).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mosha Marc, anyone who followed rugby league in the old days knows it is "Keith-lee".
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laundryman, spoilsport 
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
Never mind French resorts.
It seems no one outside of West Yorkshire can pronounce town names like Keighley, Sowerby Bridge, Todmorden, Slaithwaite or Micklewaite correctly. |
Frankly, I doubt that anyone outside West Yorkshire pronounces them at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mosha Marc, however Guisley and Guisborough are both pronounced differently (the GUIS bit obviously).
richmond, Bonus points for acknowledging that Yorkshire exists.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| David Murdoch, That's really weird. The French version of that Courchevel website doesn't mention the name Courcheval at all. Maybe your bit was specially designed for ignorant Brits? |
That was my assumption as well. They know we can't spell it so have adjusted to suit.
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FAQ
