 Poster: A snowHead
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I know it is impossible for us to bottom out the safety issues but can we have common agreements on the following items?
(1) If a piste user is listening to music while on a piste then he/she is not giving 100% attention to his/her descent. That should be no denial of this fact. It is entirely possible at the reduced attention level he/she is still safe to himself/herself and other piste users because of his/her higher level of skill while descending at a comfortable speed well within his/her capability. It is also equally possible that a music-listening piste user could get it wrong with his/her level of competence and become a safety hazard on the piste. The persistence of this behaviour depends on that person’s judgement only. None of us can judge on his/her behalf. There are others who would not listen to music while on the move because they are considerate. Equally there other piste users not doing it because they can’t at their currently skiing/boarding level.
(2) Collision risks can be different at peak and off peak holiday times, in popular and rarely visited resorts, between large and small domains and final on different grades of slopes. There appears that the blue slope has the most piste collisions as it is the logical choice for the green and inexperienced piste users. While an inexperienced piste user may take great care not to crash into the others he/she may be hit by other inexperienced piste users who do not exercise the same level of care. Mistakes do happen and there seem be more coming from the inexperienced sector of the piste users. Therefore the remarks and accidents voiced by inexperienced piste users, based on their personal bad experience with the crashes, are certainly factual but may not be truly representative of the whole skiing scene.
Thus while preaching safety to others is noble we have to understand every piste user has his/her circumstance and different experiences. The plead may be relevant or irrelevant to them. Therefore the best way is to let others to have your facts and stop speculating their safety or calling others daft/mad or taking unnecessary risks when they do not partake in the your approach to safety.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, for part 2, you also need to include skiers who go into areas where there are trees, and I'd suggest that for your concluding statement you include those who feel safety is completely irrelevant and that anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly inexperienced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Here's number
(3) A helmet will protect the wearer from some, but not all, crashes involving the head which might otherwise cause more damage if a helmet wasn't worn. Whether a helmet passes the latest certification, a useful meaningful certification is besides the point. There should be no denial of the fact that a helmet, one with a hard outer shell and impact absorbing inner shell, is body armour and body armour will protect and decrease the impact forces of some but not all collisions against the protected area. Once again, whether a helmet will protect you in a 60+mph crash is not the point, the point is that a helmet will provide protect in some but not all collisions. Helmets are not mandatory, it's your choice to wear or not to wear.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anecdotally it would seem at least plausible that many serious collisions are caused by experienced skiers going far too fast, especially in crowded places, and especially on blue or even green pistes. "Experienced" in this context does not, of course, necessarily mean "careful". You can be experienced, a good technical skiers, but also thoughtless and selfish. The man jailed for a collision which proved fatal, in the US, was jailed precisely because he was experienced (he was a lift operator if I remember rightly) and therefore should have been well capable of controlling his speed. The worst near miss we had in the last five seasons was caused by extremely skilful lads - one actually jumped over the front of my husband's skis whilst his mate passed very close, just behind. They were racing, straightlining a red piste - we were the only other people on it, doing regular and predictable turns. They were irresponsible and thoughtless, but not novices. One of the Snowheads who has described sustaining a serious injury in a crash is easiski - scarcely a novice - and the guy who crashed into her wasn't a novice either, I think. But of course lack of experience can be a factor; an elderly guy on skis nearly crashed into me when I was snowboarding last week - he was certainly a novice and had lost control. My husband had seen the guy go past him, and was holding his breath. I did shout at him - in English - I don't have the presence of mind to shout in French when frightened!
So, I would not accept that less experienced piste users are more likely to make mistakes which cause injury to others. I am not sure that there is any clear evidence, one way or another, on this point. People who fail to control their speed and line cause collisions, and there are 101 reasons why that might happen.
Neither, as a music user, would I accept it is a significant factor in reducing my attention level in a way which might endanger others. My attention level wanders for all sorts of reasons when I am skiing, as it does when I drive (yes, I know it shouldn't, but it does, and so does everybody else's). Factors include:
comfort (am I too cold? too hot? my goggles are not right, I should have gone to the loo when I had coffee etc)
watching others (is my inexperienced friend down below doing OK? isn't that bloke doing a fantastic job down these moguls I am struggling with? Is that guy in my peripheral vision about to crash into me?) ?)
showing off (did that girl notice just how cool I am?)
thinking about what I am doing, technically (has my weight gone back onto my heels again? am I getting that inside knee out enough?
being too focussed on the state of the snow ahead (I'll just head over to the side of the piste there and do a few turns in the powder).
However, being an elderly female and a control freak generally, I would argue that I am almost always in control of my speed. When I've consciously been over-doing it a bit, it's on empty pistes. I've never yet hit anybody (touch wood, it could happen....). I'm a novice snowboarder and in my first few days (always with music) "decked it" more than once when I wasn't confident I could avoid a collision any other way.
Surely there's no single attribute of a slope user which is likely to make them more of a danger to others? However crowded slopes must be a major contributor - and it tends to be the blue slopes which get most crowded, I suppose. Anyone who is really worried about collisions (though I would try to persuade them that their drive to the slopes is far more dangerous than the time they spend skiing) should avoid peak times. For the past five years I have skied mostly on very quiet pistes, as we are lucky enough to be able to avoid peak times, and I now find that even on an ordinary sort of day, places like Tignes scare me. Just too many people, too many of them skiing faster than the stopping distances available should dictate. If someone behind me on a busy motorway is driving up my back bumper, especially in a damn great lorry, I don't care how experienced he is, he can't stop in a couple of car lengths.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Husband just got back from the barber's. Heard that a mutual friend got back from a ski hol last week with a broken leg - sustained falling on the ice outside the pub.... I just hope it was at the end of his holiday.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
Anecdotally it would seem at least plausible that many serious collisions are caused by experienced skiers going far too fast, especially in crowded places, and especially on blue or even green pistes. "Experienced" in this context does not, of course, necessarily mean "careful". You can be experienced, a good technical skiers, but also thoughtless and selfish.
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Clearly there will be notable exceptions. But I've rarely felt endangered by other experienced skiers or boarders. I really don't think speed is the key factor. For example I ski much faster than the average intermediate, but with a lot more directional control and can stop much quicker if necessary. The ones I really watch closely are aggressive intermediates going for gold down the fall line on a blue run. Carrying plenty of speed and confidence, but with all the directional control of a large boat. Interestingly the same intermediates on much steeper runs are often pretty harmless, because they get scared and slow down to a crawl. I think the reckless but highly skilled skiers/boarders you mention are thankfully a rarity.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Neither, as a music user, would I accept it is a significant factor in reducing my attention level in a way which might endanger others. My attention level wanders for all sorts of reasons when I am skiing, as it does when I drive (yes, I know it shouldn't, but it does, and so does everybody else's). |
Reduced "attention level" is not the only factor. As you say in one of your examples, you may be looking at a friend's style; but (by definition) your sense of sight is still fully operative and you will react to something happening in your peripheral vision if necessary. If, by contrast, you chose to ski in a chador, your peripheral vision would be restricted, which would put you at some increased risk. I accept that if you skied within appropriate limits, all things including your garb considered, you wouldn't endanger anyone else. The same goes for skiing while masking external sounds to a degree.
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| Quote: |
I really don't think speed is the key factor. For example I ski much faster than the average intermediate, but with a lot more directional control and can stop much quicker if necessary. The ones I really watch closely are aggressive intermediates going for gold down the fall line on a blue run. Carrying plenty of speed and confidence, but with all the directional control of a large boat.
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Speed differential is more important!
On a blue piste, there're simply many people stopping or slowly zig-zagging about. Couple that with enough "aggressive intermediates going for gold down the fall line", you have the making of a collision waiting to happen.
I do believe a good skier going fast on the blue piste is also at a much higher potential of collision than on black piste, simply due to more and much slower skiers around.
| Quote: |
| Interestingly the same intermediates on much steeper runs are often pretty harmless, because they get scared and slow down to a crawl. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To the Op the short answer is no. Everyone has their own opinion coloured by their own frame of reference and experience.
To stir things up a bit however I am often the person travelling relatively fast down the side of a blue, usually a cattrack, not for fun but simply to get back to the lift from wherever I've been. Travelling fast within reason minimises the time exposed to the erratic actions of others on the run, including the next idiot who might clock me from behind if I go at the pace of the lowest common denominator. 
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| fatbob wrote: |
To stir things up a bit however I am often the person travelling relatively fast down the side of a blue, usually a cattrack, not for fun but simply to get back to the lift from wherever I've been. Travelling fast within reason minimises the time exposed to the erratic actions of others on the run, including the next idiot who might clock me from behind if I go at the pace of the lowest common denominator. |
That's what I do too. Eliminate the rear threat entirely and give ample room to slower skiers in front. The edge of the piste is normally a good bet, most slower skiers won't go right to the edge anyway. It's like driving, you have to be able to stop in the distance ahead you know is clear.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob & uktrailmonster,
Your case is the one I suspect what has been going on in French resorts. There are skiers who want to squeeze each drop of skiing while they are on the piste. Going fast to prevent being overtaken is new to me too because that would be my definition of have a race.
I am not commenting on the right or wrong here at all because this is a fact of life and is exactly what many skiers are doing -- they are in a hurry to descend as quickly as possible.
I must say though Italian resorts seem to have less skiers in a hurry than those in France. Swiss and Austrian resorts have even less. I put down that skiing in these countries is more relax if the skiers could ski every weekend when there is good snow. There is no pressure or rush to get the most out of each skiing day. Whereas a skier spending a significant amount of money, take a week's off work, waste a couple of days on travel and transfer would naturally want to get the most out of it.
I have seen this coming and so I arrange my skiing holiday to last two weeks and stay away from the French resorts. I find it safer for myself if I am not under pressure to ski fast. There was a time when I would be interest to get a few more runs until the lifts stopped but I have grown past this phase now.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| saikee wrote: |
| ........... seem to have less skiers in a hurry than those in France. Swiss and Austrian resorts have even less. ........ |
Verbier and St Anton have changed a lot since I was there, then.
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achilles,
Verbier is close to France and Italy and is favoured by the UK skiers. At Anton is busy but Lech is quieter. There are at least 320 resorts in Austria. Many of those I visited were nowhere near as popular the above two.
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You know it makes sense.
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saikee, fair enough. It's late. Shall we call it a day? Good night 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes, time to strike head on pillow or put on dream helmet
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Poster: A snowHead
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| saikee wrote: |
fatbob & uktrailmonster,
Your case is the one I suspect what has been going on in French resorts. There are skiers who want to squeeze each drop of skiing while they are on the piste. Going fast to prevent being overtaken is new to me too because that would be my definition of have a race.
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In my case and probably fatbob's too, my casual cruising speed is high enough on a blue run not to have to worry too much about what's behind. Maybe beginners and intermediates might perceive me as racing, just because I'm going faster. It's when slowing right down, stopping or crossing/merging with another piste that I have to pay the most attention. Those are the only occasions where I've had near misses and the odd incident. Skiing alongside beginners at much lower speeds, I feel much more at risk of being hit by those out of control.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
| I do believe a good skier going fast on the blue piste is also at a much higher potential of collision than on black piste, simply due to more and much slower skiers around. |
Only if there are more people on the blue piste, surely? I ski quicker than typical intermediates, but only in situations where I would not be required to stop quickly (eg other slope users, unsighted terrain changes) or where a crash and slide would risk collision with other slope users, pylons, snow cannons, etc. I don't see that there is a problem (for other people) from skiing fast.
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bloxy
bloxy
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saikee, I would go with (1) and (2)
PisteHead, (3) That's quite a balanced view which I would agree with, only quibble would be 30mph+ not 60mph+ as in a direct impact at this speed current technology and helmet design are not able to offer protection fro death or serious permanent injury.
abc,
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| I do believe a good skier going fast on the blue piste is also at a much higher potential of collision than on black piste, simply due to more and much slower skiers around. |
Not in my experience. To put it into context, skiing 25yrs 100+ weeks on snow and no collisions. I will normally ski relatively fast if on a blue slope but if it is crowded I will usually ski down the edge always in full control and always aiming to avoid all other skiers and always being able to turn evasively or stop if necessary. Having recently skied with a friend's kids who are beginners at their speed and following their turns I felt much more at risk of collision from incompetents travelling at speeds well outside of their skill level.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Neither, as a music user, would I accept it is a significant factor in reducing my attention level in a way which might endanger others
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I think the whole debate about music is about "users" endagering themselves, rather than anyone else..to a degree... This makes it, as per the helmet, a pure personal choice...
One skier speed combined with lack of control and distance is the only real issue for "others"...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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'I am always in control and alwyas ski perfectly when I ski fast, but if I am skiing slower than normal and someone skis past me, they are obviuosly incompetent and well beyond their skill levels.'
Seems a few people have that kind of attitude - a self belief that they are OK, but others are always the problem. How do you know that someone else isn't looking at you saying that you are skiing beyond your ability?
You might think you are skiing safely when you ski fast down the edge of a blue, but if someone with less speed than you, or perhaps less experience, sees you skiing like that, it may cause a distraction to them, and cause them to fall.
A few years ago I witnessed an accident where two "good" skiers were going down the edge of a blue cat track. It was busy as we were quite close to the lift, and there were a couple of kids groups in front of us. The two "good" skiers were quite close together - one behind the other. The front one suddenly slowed down for no apparent reason and threw in a couple of short turns. The one behind made a turn to get away from the first one, and their skis touched. Both wiped out - one sliding into the middle of the slope, the other up a bank. A major row ensued as to who was at fault, but at no time did either admit that they were going too fast in a busy area. Thankfully neither of them hit any of the kids when they fell.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wear The Fox Hat, you're right, it's like the stat that 90% (or whatever) of male drivers think they're better than average, that someone else quoted on another thread.
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laundryman, to carry on with the drift wildly off topic, some think we should not have any below average schoolchildren (you see the thinking in comment on examination results). But 50% always will be.
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Thought after reading WTFH on skiing speed
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A possible Item (4) on something like
Speed - A skier/boarder going at a speed comfortable to himself/herself may be viewed as uncomfotable by others. Safety on the piste can only be achieved if the fast skiers/boarders are willing to moderate their speed to suit other users on the same slope, say not to alarm them and to slow down sufficiently enough where there are people around. Basically a good skier/boarder can control the speed so that others are not even aware of his/her presence if it needs to be.
Some fast skiers/boarders may be more considerate the others but some may be less willing depending on their own circumstance. It is their choices and if offered should be viewed as a good will if not good manner or good behaviour.
A fast skier/boarder can also misjudge his/her ability doing a speed above his/her ability. That misjudgement becomes a fact if he/she injures himeself/herself or/and others. I think there is an universal acceptance in the majority of crashing accidents the piste user further uphill, who is in a position to prevent the crash from happening, was going too fast regardless what speed he/she was doing. His/her judgement of his/her own speed was simply wrong.
Thus if a skier/boarder wishes to contribute safety he/she could vary the speed to suit both fellow piste users as well as himeslf/herself. This can be an feature of an expert who can change speed at will to anthing that can be thrown at him/her.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 14-02-08 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Totally disagree with (1). Listening to music can help you focus. That is why so many sports men and women listen to music whilst or prior to competing.
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| The_Hirsty wrote: |
| That is why so many sports men and women listen to music whilst ... competing. |
Do they? I wasn't aware of that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The_Hirsty,
I think in this case it is "during" the competition when the music-listener is competing with piste space with other users.
If your sportsperson does not listening to music while competing then your post is in agreement instead of disagreement with (1), I would have thought.
There will be sports where one does not need 100% concentration, especially if one does care about of wining.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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bloxy, Assuming it's 30 mph that 30 times 1609m in 1 hour or ((30 * 1609) / 3600) metres per second which is 13.4 m/s. Top olympic sprinters run about 10 m/s so 14 m/s isn't that much faster, 22mph vs 30mph, than the fastest sprinters in the world. As I haven't read the reports on helmet crash tests the 30mph threshold seems low to me but if it's 30 then it's 30.
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| saikee wrote: |
Speed - A skier/boarder going at a speed comfortable to himself/herself may be viewed as uncomfotable by others. Safety on the piste can only be achieved if the fast skiers/boarders are willing to moderate their speed to suit other users on the same slope, say not to alarm them and to slow down sufficiently enough where there are people around. Basically a good skier/boarder can control the speed so that others are not even aware of his/her presence if it needs to be.
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Distance is the key here. I think it's irresponsible (and rude) for fast skiers to pass at high speed very close to other slope users, especially when there are loads of beginners around. So I moderate my own speed enough so I can pass safely at a sensible distance. I give beginners and slower skiers even more room when passing. It's all just common sense.
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You know it makes sense.
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uktrailmonster,
It is common sense to many of us but I think there is an army of skiers/boarders who are in a hurry. They need to get as much skiing/boarding done during their time on the piste. They could exercise the common sense if they can stay several more days on the resort. However if they only have the rest of the day and would not be able tp come back until the next season would you mind if they exercise the common sense at other times, so that they could do 5 more runs before the lift stops? They have a need to improve themselves or to get the best value out of the ski pass.
They also think their speed is low enough for other folks but may consider some users should not be on the piste because they are slow.
I suppose if they don't injure themselves or hit others we can't really say the common sense if being exercised enough or not, even though slow skiers may be alarmed by the fast passage around them.
At the end of the day it is up to the individual to give room and consideration to other piste users and some of them have to be in a form of good manner or good will.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
many sports men and women listen to music whilst or prior to competing.
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as per others...prior yes....but I have yet to see sport men/women doing while competing! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| saikee wrote: |
| It is common sense to many of us but I think there is an army of skiers/boarders who are in a hurry. |
Sounds like you have an issue with people who ski fast, per se?
I think your sentence would reflect reality a bit more if is said "there is an army of skiers/boarders who do not have sufficient control of their speed and line, and a small number of people who ski/board fast and under control but are discourteous to other slope users by skiing/boarding too quickly in close proximity."
I don't have a problem with people who ski fast and under control, unless it is significantly off-putting to other slope users (normally by skiing too close to them, even though there is negligible risk of a collision). In fact, watching fast skiers (who are in good control of their line and speed) is a thing of great joy for me.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
'I am always in control and alwyas ski perfectly when I ski fast, but if I am skiing slower than normal and someone skis past me, they are obviuosly incompetent and well beyond their skill levels.'
Seems a few people have that kind of attitude - a self belief that they are OK, but others are always the problem. How do you know that someone else isn't looking at you saying that you are skiing beyond your ability?
You might think you are skiing safely when you ski fast down the edge of a blue, but if someone with less speed than you, or perhaps less experience, sees you skiing like that, it may cause a distraction to them, and cause them to fall.
A few years ago I witnessed an accident where two "good" skiers were going down the edge of a blue cat track. It was busy as we were quite close to the lift, and there were a couple of kids groups in front of us. The two "good" skiers were quite close together - one behind the other. The front one suddenly slowed down for no apparent reason and threw in a couple of short turns. The one behind made a turn to get away from the first one, and their skis touched. Both wiped out - one sliding into the middle of the slope, the other up a bank. A major row ensued as to who was at fault, but at no time did either admit that they were going too fast in a busy area. Thankfully neither of them hit any of the kids when they fell. |
I take it that you are having dig at me. I don't know what I did to upset you on here or Epic but hey ho.
So lets clear up a few points.
I said relatively fast, relative to the average beginner/intermediate yes it may be faster but for me it would be relatively slow certainly slower than I would be going on a black or off piste slope where there were no other skiers to worry about.
You may also note I said avoiding other skiers. That means I am not going to be buzzing them I am looking for the open spaces or hanging back and aiming to give those who are making their way down at slower speeds room to enjoy their skiing. You may also note I said skiing in control and at a speed that allows me to turn evasively or stop if necessary, clearly not the case in the scenario you quote.
And finally having spent years racing, teaching, training and undergoing coaching to reach my skill level I do consider others, who ski too fast for their ability on a crowded slope or wildly out of control because they can't be bothered to learn, to be a problem.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| saikee wrote: |
uktrailmonster,
It is common sense to many of us but I think there is an army of skiers/boarders who are in a hurry. They need to get as much skiing/boarding done during their time on the piste. They could exercise the common sense if they can stay several more days on the resort. However if they only have the rest of the day and would not be able tp come back until the next season would you mind if they exercise the common sense at other times, so that they could do 5 more runs before the lift stops? They have a need to improve themselves or to get the best value out of the ski pass.
They also think their speed is low enough for other folks but may consider some users should not be on the piste because they are slow.
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The army of skiers in a hurry is normally the 1 week a year warriors, who are usually intermediates at best, but describe themselves as advanced. I've got loads of colleagues at work like that. Typically 5-10 weeks total skiing experience, yet they insist on skiing flat out right on the edge of their ability. Particularly when roaming in male only packs, they can turn into a bit of a menace. Normally one of them gets injured at some point during the week.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| PisteHead wrote: |
| bloxy, Assuming it's 30 mph that 30 times 1609m in 1 hour or ((30 * 1609) / 3600) metres per second which is 13.4 m/s. Top olympic sprinters run about 10 m/s so 14 m/s isn't that much faster, 22mph vs 30mph, than the fastest sprinters in the world. As I haven't read the reports on helmet crash tests the 30mph threshold seems low to me but if it's 30 then it's 30. |
http://www.ski-injury.com/helmet.htm
This is a review of the literature by ski patrol doctor at CairnGorm Mountain his conclusions pretty much match yours.
On the speed issue.
"To give a stark example, biomechanics have demonstrated that in order to protect the head against a direct impact blow at 30 mph, with currently available materials, a helmet would need to be at least 18cm thick, 50cm wide and weigh 5kg+. Radar data collected from ski areas suggests most intermediate skiers regularly travel at between 24-38 mph."
There is some other articles around suggesting much the same.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This thread is absolutely mind numbing. Im amazed that some people actually find time to enjoy their skiing with all this tuff to worry about.
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bloxy
bloxy
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| Kruisler wrote: |
as per others...prior yes....but I have yet to see sport men/women doing while competing! |
I'm sure Didier Cuche will be listening to gangsta rap on his iPod whilst racing downhill!
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bloxy, nope, not meant as a dig at you, there are some who claim they are always in control, and that it's someone else who isn't. Sometimes it's expressed as the idea that "I won't hit someone, but someone might hit me"
I apologise if you felt that was a personal attack at you, it wan't meant to be aimed at anyone in particular.
As others replied afterwards, there's a lot of people who think they are better than everyone else. That ego can be a very dangerous thing.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
bloxy, nope, not meant as a dig at you, there are some who claim they are always in control, and that it's someone else who isn't. Sometimes it's expressed as the idea that "I won't hit someone, but someone might hit me"
I apologise if you felt that was a personal attack at you, it wan't meant to be aimed at anyone in particular. |
Ok accepted, it was just the similar references in your post which directly followed mine, my mistake.
| Quote: |
| there's a lot of people who think they are better than everyone else. That ego can be a very dangerous thing. |
I know I am better than nearly everybody else so ego is not a problem!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bloxy, I need to be more specific now. I don't have any ulterior agenda or reason to reject the fact that a helmet will fail in a direct square impact with a solid object like a tree. However if a skier stacks it on piste doing say 35mph and doesn't crash square on into any solid object then the only other likely head impact will be from possible oblique impacts with the ground as the skier cartwheels and tumbles down/across the slope. In those cases the impact forces will be much less and a helmet will probably or may prevent the wearer from concussion or being knocked out.
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Ok chaps - on just how many threads can we simultaneously argue about helmets ? 
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FAQ
