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Living in the UK is anti-skiing (Rant) EDIT> apart from Scotland where life is brilliant!

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Poster: A snowHead
Steilhang, Nice, very, very nice. Toofy Grin
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I really want to relocate to the alps....what stops everyone, I reckon thats what everyone on this forum wants? Is it ridiculously expensive - more pricey that buying in London?

Family, friends, neighbours, the most humorous people in the world, business connections, economic opportunities, the biggest international city on the face of the earth on the doorstep with more culture than you can shake a stick at, restaurants of every variety, the English countryside, country pubs, real ale, cricket on the village green, etc, etc, etc ... oh and the Alps are just a few hours away.
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laundryman, can live without real ale, personally, but otherwise agree 100%.
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laundryman, youre talking about Glasgow right?
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boyo

When PG was regularly visiting the forum I had rented his twin-bed studio flat in Boug St Maurice and he charged me Euro 16.5 per head per night during the two weeks in Christmas and New years. That was self catering. The year before I also skied in Tarentaise and stay with a hotel in BSM and paid Euro 22/head/night B&B.

The market price I pay in Austria this year is about Euro 22 to 25 per head per night B&B. This is not the price the chalet owners here would like to see, especially for a booking less than a week, say 3 or 4 nights. Thus it is a lot easier for me to just go around to book whatever number nights at whatever place I wish to be. So far I have not had any problem, except in Switzerland where the B&B price is in the range of Euro 40 to 45/head/night at better hotels but choices are rather limited but they too accept minimum booking like 4 nights.

In recent years I have stayed away from the French resorts and prefer the Italian and the Austrian resorts. They have are very few British chalet owners.

Skiers with cars seldom have problem in finding accommodation because the location is very flexible. It can be any where in a circle of say 15 miles radius with the centre at the resort to be visited.
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saikee wrote:

For a UK skier who has not been to say Verbier and Zermatt and is now have a chance to do so would he/she rather go to small little relatively unknown resorts elsewhere in the same valleys?


that's just taste, certainly some do, I could name names Very Happy

saikee wrote:
I found after finishing a day's skiing, say at 5pm, one can drive lesisurely, as allowing the two legs to rest, for two hours and comfortably in another hotel in any of the resorts within a circle of 100miles radius of the resort just skied.


Very Happy well, there's another good point, just absolutely the very, very last thing you want to do after skiing, or any kind of exercise, is sit in a car for a couple of hours. I can't think of a better way to guarantee tired and aching muscles.

saikee wrote:
On the skiing distance you are obviously having us on. Many gondolas are over 4 km long and even a drag lift can be more than 2km in length. Thus if you put on a pair of skis you will have to do at least the length of the lift in order to come back to the point of origin. The actual length of a piste is about twice of the distance of the "lifted" distance.


Nope, yesterday I didn't use any lifts at all, when I descended from one of the local huts I used some skins to climb a short distance up a black run so I could schuss the bottom into the village and avoid a walk out along the road (cabane du petit mountet). On Thursday I rode the main lift, skied a few metres down to the chair, rode that, the next one and then did about 100m down the black run before dropping off the back side to the barrage in the next valley (dam powder) skied to the next village and went home (on the post bus) to fix some lights.
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i live in perth which is about an hour from glenshee and about 2 hours from all the other resorts, but so far this year we have only managed 2 days skiing up there. Scotland is fine if you can drtop everything ad go on the perfect days but unfortunatly this year they seem to be weekdays which are no good for us. The problem we have had this year is every weekend it seem to have been gale force winds or like last weekend seriously cold wind chill which would be fine for me and hubby but not when we have to take the kids with us.

we can only afford one week away per year at the moment but i still don't feel too hard done by.

saying that we are seriously considering a move to canada (british columbia) not just for the skiing (although it is a big factor) but generally for a better outdoor lifestlye and better prospects for myself as a nurse.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Family, friends, neighbours, the most humorous people in the world, business connections, economic opportunities, the biggest international city on the face of the earth on the doorstep with more culture than you can shake a stick at, restaurants of every variety, the English countryside, country pubs, real ale, cricket on the village green, etc, etc, etc ... oh and the Alps are just a few hours away.

I wonder how many keen skiers living in Zurich, Munich, Geneva, Lyon, Venice and Milan dream of moving to London rolling eyes

Lets face it their quality of life is far better than ours.
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I think there are a lot of opportunities in UK too, especially financially.

There are graduates getting 100k within three years after leaving the university and there are home owners making £100k/per year in the last 10 years simply from picking the right house to sleep in. These kind of indoor life could be what those living in the Alps are missing.

At the end of the day just choose what you want and make it happen.
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The grass is always greener...
I love my life & my country.
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Peter S wrote:
Lets face it their quality of life is far better than ours.

Opinion and personal taste. There are hundreds of thousands of Western Europeans in London, especially French. Those I know speak of greater opportunity and less social rigidity.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
laundryman, This thread is about skiing though rather than general quality of life! Personally i think if you have a good job then life is pretty sweet whereever you live. I am just concerned that apart from my family, friends and fiancee by biggest joys in life come when I am at 3000m looking around at the beautiful peaks. Currently due to time, money and holiday allowance constraints I generally ski 1 - 2 weeks per year.

Oh I would like to point out that swimming in the Med during the summer is better than the channel / atlantic!
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ise,

Quote:
well, there's another good point, just absolutely the very, very last thing you want to do after skiing, or any kind of exercise, is sit in a car for a couple of hours. I can't think of a better way to guarantee tired and aching muscles.


Must admit at our age after skiing two hours in the morning we need to sit down to rest our legs during the 1-hour lunch. We need a rest too after the two-hour post-lunch session. Thus spending two hours in a sitting position leisurely in a car will do for us, in normal shoes, MP3, heated seats, auto box and cruise control.

Walking in ski boots and holding a pair of skies as a method not to get tired and aching muscles after a day's skiing is beyond us even if it works.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
saikee, I agree with Ise, sitting in a car would be a litle painful saying that the joy of adventure in leaving one resort and heading to the next would make up for it! Also it depends what car you are driving and how much leg room there is!

When you next go on a driving ski holiday please if you need passengers hit me with a pm as it sounds like fun .... chase the pow pow!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
plectrum,

I did made an open offer here to take SH around the valley when I skied Zillertal Valley in Mid Jan, with a 7 seater Shogun although the last two seats are only comfortable for children or adults shorter than 5 ft tall. There was no interest and so I didn't need to bring the root ski clamps as there were only the wife and I in it.

I really couldn't tell if European skiers have been walking a mile or two in boots and skis after finishing a day's skiing. I only witnessed them leaping into their cars and driving away quickly. I did not follow them to check if they stop regularly, come out of the car to do activities to reduce aching in the legs before completing the rest of the journey.

May be the next time I see skiers in boots and skis walking at mid night in a town centre of a resort I should stop them and ask "Pardon me, how's your legs now?". I got the feeling alcohol can assist blood circulation too but unsure if the European law is sympathetic to drivers consuming it for the purpose of getting rid of the leg tiredness and aching.
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saikee wrote:

Walking in ski boots and holding a pair of skies as a method not to get tired and aching muscles after a day's skiing is beyond us even if it works.



Puzzled you've lost me, what are you saying?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
saikee, I always carry my adidas classics in the bag to change into. I do not enjoy walking in ski boots and it also damages the soles.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ise,

After one finishes a day's skiing and is standing in front of his/her own car. Your previous post suggests it is the very last thing for him/her to sit down in the car to get rid of the leg aching and tiredness. So what else could the skier do?

Overwhelming majority of the European skiers I saw just removed the skis, put them away, changed shoes, leaped into the car and drove away. They even do this in Scotland (on the assumption that the skiers there are not as switched on because they are unable to ski as frequent as the Europeans).
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saikee wrote:
plectrum,


I really couldn't tell if European skiers have been walking a mile or two in boots and skis after finishing a day's skiing. I only witnessed them leaping into their cars and driving away quickly. I did not follow them to check if they stop regularly, come out of the car to do activities to reduce aching in the legs before completing the rest of the journey.

.

Indeed - the carpark at places like Engelberg and Andermatt fills rapidly with Zurich and Lucerne plated cars. I'm sure ise would even recognise that the carpark by the cable car in Zinal is not bereft of cars certainly at weekends. While I accept that the Euro model is still to drive somewhere, stay the week then drive home again the traffic on the roads suggests that there are significant numbers of people doing other stuff.
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saikee, No I think what he is saying is that finishing a day in resort, de-camping and then stretching, going for a sauna, walking around the resort, relaxing in a bar etc etc is alot nicer than sitting cramped in a car.

This year we finished in resort and could leave all our equipment at the hire store so within 20 mins of reaching resort we were in trainers without skis and it was blissfull! I wouldn't like the static that sitting in a car brings as I would imagine that built up lactics will set in and ache would ensue.
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saikee, What you could do is ski tour and so finish every day at the next mountain lodge Wink No car no problem!
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plectrum,

The reason I took up downhill skiing is because I found cross country, on flat ground, tough going and gave it up. I genuinely believe mechanical lifting devices are helpful to me to gain altitude.

There is also the question if , no matter how I try as there are too many of them, I couldn't ski a decent sample of the European resorts with the assistance of mechanical lifts what chance do I have to ski-touring it, by walking unaided all the mountains between the resorts. At the moment reducing the altitude manually by skiing is a sufficient exercise for me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
saikee, I'm not really talking about cross country, I'm talking about high mountain touring. I am fairly in experienced in touring but so far have actually found the uphill part less tiring than going down. Yes certainly it is more enduring but there are not the immense forces that are placed on your body as faced when going down at speed.

I see the major benefit of having a car and the internet is the ability to find the best stashes of snow but saying this these are often in areas which need a bit of touring to access.
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saikee wrote:

Overwhelming majority of the European skiers I saw just removed the skis, put them away, changed shoes, leaped into the car and drove away. They even do this in Scotland (on the assumption that the skiers there are not as switched on because they are unable to ski as frequent as the Europeans).


And then they drive home down the valley, and go to work the next day for the most part. It's just a necessity for most people that I know. Having spent one season here doing just that I know exactly how undesirable that is, the very last thing you really want to at the end of a ski day is get in a car for a couple of hours, it's the perfect recipe for aches and pains later. None of them would do it by choice and certainly wouldn't want to spend their holiday time doing it.

plectrum wrote:
This year we finished in resort and could leave all our equipment at the hire store so within 20 mins of reaching resort we were in trainers without skis and it was blissfull! I wouldn't like the static that sitting in a car brings as I would imagine that built up lactics will set in and ache would ensue.


That's exactly what happens, assuming you've been exercising at all vigorously of course.

plectrum wrote:
I see the major benefit of having a car and the internet is the ability to find the best stashes of snow but saying this these are often in areas which need a bit of touring to access.


I'm not sure I agree, the way to find the best stashes of snow is to know the mountain you're on. That's something that any holiday skier recognizes, arrive in a new, unfamiliar station and it takes a day or so to know the best slopes and best lifts to use etc. The same can be said just for getting some lunch for that matter.
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plectrum,

I agreed totally on whatever the bit of rubbish snow a resort owner bashes on a piste it is nothing like the one you find in mountain touring. There are also many aspect of the winter environment I miss too by not facing up the virgin state of the nature. I could be interested in it if I am younger.

However being an recreational skier I only ski on runs whatever my better half could cope with and go to places wherever she can manages thus I have to compromise. It may be a small sacrifice but she could enjoy it and so am I. At the moment we are content with touring "within" the resort as we tend to go from one end to another and change the venue daily if it needs to be.

It is true that at the expense of not seeing many great sceneries and powder snow we have to make do with sampling more number of resorts instead.
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ise, You know this isn't true one side of a mountain can easily have a different snow fall than the other and for instance when there is a regional storm it could have passed over an area<50km away and so for that day it would be preferable to jump in a car and move.

Anyhow where are you at the moment and how is the snow?
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saikee, I think this is a misconception that short day touring is difficult. If you can competantly ski then I would suggest trying it just hire the stuff and get a guide, I was amazed how easy it was to climb with ski's and skins. You need to understand that in each stride is quite large and because you are gliding it is relatively effortless. On very steep climbs I guess it becomes more taxing but there is grading just as there is on piste.

Try it as it is fab!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ise,

Quote:
I'm not sure I agree, the way to find the best stashes of snow is to know the mountain you're on. That's something that any holiday skier recognizes, arrive in a new, unfamiliar station and it takes a day or so to know the best slopes and best lifts to use etc. The same can be said just for getting some lunch for that matter.


Luckily or unluckily for me I have no interest in the best slope or the best lifts of any resort.

To me the slope condition is weather dependent and it is pointless to search for it because the weather may not be in our side. Going down the so called "best" slope in zero visibility with loose snow covering the piste making it impossible to tell if one is skiing inside or outside it is really not my idea of good skiing.

Any lift that can transport me to the top safely is as good as the other. I rather ski in a resort with less people in it so that there is less competition for space and facilities. I would appreciate a bubble cover when the wind is blowing or perhaps the seat is heated when the ambient temperature drops below -10 degree C but my basic desire is just there should be enough of them and the skiers not having to queue a long time for getting to the top.

plectrum

Thanks for the introduction. You make me think again but can't promise anything will happen.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
saikee wrote:

Luckily or unluckily for me I have no interest in the best slope or the best lifts of any resort.


I was forming that impression, I'm surprised you say it though.

saikee wrote:
I rather ski in a resort with less people in it so that there is less competition for space and facilities.


This is exactly what's leaving me utterly baffled, if that's what you think then why pass through the Valais and Vaud and only go to Zermatt, Crans and Verbier? If you were looking for crowds they were perfect, you only needed to add Villars and you'd have the set.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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plectrum wrote:
ise, You know this isn't true one side of a mountain can easily have a different snow fall than the other and for instance when there is a regional storm it could have passed over an area<50km away and so for that day it would be preferable to jump in a car and move.


Not true at all, what makes the biggest difference is knowing where you are, that's one of the reasons many people hire local guides. If you can arrive somewhere and not knowing the area find somewhere to ski then so can everyone else, and it's tracked out. The trick is knowing exactly where to look and (most crucially) when to ski the slopes.

plectrum wrote:
Anyhow where are you at the moment and how is the snow?


Zinal, on Thursday we skied a trade route into the next valley and got first tracks in Feb' peak time, two days after the last snow (photo's), that's local knowledge at work, being the first team into a line as the snow pack stabilises. Yesterday skiing down from the cabane du Petit Mountet (photo's) as the only skier in that part of the valley in untracked powder three days after it had snowed, more local knowledge. The busiest week of the season will be next week and it'll be more of the same.
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ise,

Possibly a mistake. I thought I could get away by going there at the middle of March last year to avoid the crowd.

Busy Swiss resorts still beat French resorts for avoiding queues and crowds though.

Zermatt was pretty quiet when we were there. The video we shot at Run 62, which is a black run but is also the main thoroughfare to descend from Schwarzesee Paradise at 2583m level to Furi at 1864m level, show 20 skiers passing in 46 seconds and then another 5 in 36 seconds. Elsewhere it was not easy to find the correct way when there was no other skier on the same piste, as we missed to find the restaurant at Riffelberg "twice" because there was nobody using the piste which we think could lead to it.

Verbier was different as the skiers there didn't need to eat. We could only see one customer, who wasn't in skiing outfit but more of the workman there, drinking beer while there were two of us having lunch inside the entire Plan du-Fou cafeteria restaurant, although there two to three groups of skiers/boarders drinking and eating in the terrace outside under the sun. I had to get additional drinks and food so as not to embarrass ourselves in front of the cashier and kitchen staff as we were the only customers they served at that time. I still got the video shot showing two of us in the big glass-framed restaurant and the food we couldn't finished.

Crans Montana was rather deserted and we hit wet and soft snow at the bottom runs again. Didn't recall seeing any fellow skier when parking the car, buying the ski pass and getting into the gondola. To prove that I wasn't lying here is a shot of the car park when we arrived. The other shots show a big empty space with nothing in the other direction.
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saikee wrote:
plectrum,

I did made an open offer here to take SH around the valley when I skied Zillertal Valley in Mid Jan, with a 7 seater Shogun although the last two seats are only comfortable for children or adults shorter than 5 ft tall. There was no interest and so I didn't need to bring the root ski clamps as there were only the wife and I in it.

I really couldn't tell if European skiers have been walking a mile or two in boots and skis after finishing a day's skiing. I only witnessed them leaping into their cars and driving away quickly. I did not follow them to check if they stop regularly, come out of the car to do activities to reduce aching in the legs before completing the rest of the journey.

May be the next time I see skiers in boots and skis walking at mid night in a town centre of a resort I should stop them and ask "Pardon me, how's your legs now?". I got the feeling alcohol can assist blood circulation too but unsure if the European law is sympathetic to drivers consuming it for the purpose of getting rid of the leg tiredness and aching.


Most of us don't do any significant walking in ski boots.

Almost all resorts nowadays have pretty good ski buses included in the lift pass, which will get you from the base of the ski area to your accommodation in a few minutes.

At which point, you can get all your ski gear off, have a shower, maybe a sauna, and just rest before dinner.
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fatbob said: "people living in Scotland are poorly served for skiing opportunities if they're honest with themselves."

Disagree, a lot. I just think of my skiing opportunities in much the same way as I do my hill-walking, trout fishing and mountain-biking outings. I grab the opportunity when I can according to season, domestic duties and conditions so get a couple of days skiing in each month from November through to May. That gives me two extra weeks skiing a year in addition to the designer resort trips in the Alps. Nothing dishonest about that. wink

plectrum wrote : "No I think what he is saying is that finishing a day in resort, de-camping and then stretching, going for a sauna, walking around the resort, relaxing in a bar etc etc is alot nicer than sitting cramped in a car."

Naturally. But as has been previously mentioned, it's mostly only the resort week trippers like us that would do that anyway. There's a fella who lives & skis in the French Alps who posts on winterhighland by the name of Lionel who does exactly the same as anyone skiing Scotland when he parks the car, that is get changed, pull his boots on and go. Hey, I've even changed in the Glenshee car park from my suit and tie into ski gear for an afternoon this year. Very Happy

Ise wrote : "well, there's another good point, just absolutely the very, very last thing you want to do after skiing, or any kind of exercise, is sit in a car for a couple of hours. I can't think of a better way to guarantee tired and aching muscles."

I bet 10 euros you take time to stretch before you exercise too don't you. Twisted Evil
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moffatross wrote:

Ise wrote : "well, there's another good point, just absolutely the very, very last thing you want to do after skiing, or any kind of exercise, is sit in a car for a couple of hours. I can't think of a better way to guarantee tired and aching muscles."

I bet 10 euros you take time to stretch before you exercise too don't you. Twisted Evil


No I don't, because there's substantial research saying there's no benefit and potential negative outcomes.

would you like to send that via paypal or cash in an envelope? Very Happy
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abc,
Quote:

Now, if there're a lot of people who's willing to travel 2 hours each way to ski a single day, I'm guilty of being ignorant. (Because I actually do the same once in a while, I do feel it's NOT an effective way to increase skiing days) On the other hand, if one is indeed so fanatical, then maybe £500 for 4 days of skiing isn't exactly that bad?

I do it all the time. i'll be doing it this weekend - Aberdeen - Cairngorm, approx travel time 2hrs each way approx cost in fuel £7 each way. If its really good conditions I'll stay somewhere local near Cairngorm - in the past that has included camping.
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ise Smile ... Fair do's. It's not just my wife who's a bad judge of character then although show me the 'substantial research' sitting in the car for 2 hours thwarts muscle recovery and I'll paypal you or your favourite charity. NehNeh

Dave ... £14 for four hours ... what're you driving, a Hayter or a Mountfield ?
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A skoda fabia diesel from which I get at least 60mpg cos I'm very gentle with the right foot (usually, blue sky powder days excepted Smile ) It was a bit of a back of an envelope calculation, but should be about right as a trip to Cairngorm and back uses under half a tank of diesel which costs about £30 to fill up. Though the cost seems to be going up alarmingly at the moment, such that I'm going to have to cycel the 15miles each way to work much more frequently this year to free up diesel for skiing .
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