 Poster: A snowHead
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ski, you got that right!
freestyleandy, i keep hearing that most peeps flunk the 2 tech in the bumps and I'm not sure a longish GS type ski is my best bet. I'm 6'4" but have gotten to like short skis. For instance i demoed K2 recons in 174 and 181 and the shorter one turned a million times better. THe movements sound pretty good but may be a bit soft for me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret, I would guess for the ability to do short turns, and the bumps, the shorter 174 recons would be better. I think that the radius of the 181's will work out around the 20m mark (may be wrong) which might make it just that little bit to far over 17m to perform well on the steeps doing short turns.
If the stocklis are stiffer and a bit exciting edge to edge, they may just be a bit too much for two weeks on a basi course, especially lapping the bumps for an afternoon or two. Something a little bit more forgiving that you can relax on without the risk of stacking  would be the ski i would go for.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, Remember it's the skier - not the skis  Having said that, I bought some Rossi skis (7SV) specifically for 2 Tech. Hated them - even before I skied on them - but passed. Then sold the skis for what I'd paid for them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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freestyleandy, i will give spydermans stocklis a go at MK to get feel for them. Everyone seems to say K2's are dull and lifeless but i kinda disagree. You have to make them turn you cant just tip them on edge but if you drive them hard they will load up with a lot of energy. I am doing the tech and teach back to back and need something a bit forgiving as you rightly point out. K2's or movements may be the ticket. My on piste skiing is better than my off/bumps so am leaning more for that type of ski.
ski, Yeah i know what you mean but i did a training week on volkl karmas and felt at a disadvantage in the bumps and high speed carves. I have to get something so may as well try to get something that will suit the courses. current shortlist:
Stockli stormrider Off road 184 20.8 R XL 174 111/75/102 R18.5
Movement Flame 179 118/78/108 17 R
K2 recon 174 119/78/105 R 18
Volkl AC30 177 118/76/104 R 18.4
Atomic Nomad Blackeyes 171, 178 17m @171 121 - 79 – 107
Élan magfires 176 17.2 R 126 / 82 / 109
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret,
Stockli make a 'detuned' GS ski... I have a pair - around 17m radius IIRC... they are very good for me for an everyday type of ski... I'm skiing them in the video we made when I'm in the red jacket...
I have skied them off-piste, bumps, etc in Colorado.... (like the Volkl Racetigers better for long turns and the Elan SLX for shorts...) .... they are just very comfy all around skiing things.... (not deep powder if you want to float though)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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little tiger, most of the GS or skier cross skis are a bit narrow underfoot for me as i am rather large. looking around 75mm mark
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skimottaret, ah, something like a Hart Pulse, maybe with a plate on top.
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skimottaret,Can you explain why being large means you need a wider ski waist?
| skimottaret wrote: |
Not content with my current range and need an all rounder for mainly piste skiing along with some variables and bumps.
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Fastman is no midget and skis race skis in all conditions and looks pretty damn good to me.... My Oz instructor was 6'3" and 100kg(nearly all muscle though) and did the same.... My canadian instructor had a pair of slalom skis he got free each year and that was what he skied everywhere - except when racing he had a sponsored pair for that(GS) and he was not "BIG" but quite tall and athletic - so no lightweight.... My ex was also tall - but a greyhound and looks good in all snow on narrow waisted skis... and Carveman(aussie examiner) is no lightweight - but short - and although he has specialty powder planks for Utah I believe he can ski on skinnies in all conditions very well also....
I can understand why you might want to have a fat ski for powder - but you say you NEED a wider waist for an all-around mostly piste ski?  I'm really confused.... I cannot think why an all-around mostly piste ski would need to be wider for larger person - float is not really an issue as bottomless on-piste would be really weird yes? Is there something I'm not understanding? You need a slower edge to edge ski on piste?
BTW - also confused - to me bump runs are still on-piste... is this another euro different thing? (we have inbound off-piste like the north americans) Off-piste to me is the never groomed.... so bump "runs" are piste as they are a run and groomed sometimes...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, yeah they look like the business, i am guessing hard to find in Europe though 
little tiger, I'm not in the same league as the top banana's you mention and need all the help i can get off piste, variables while still doing a reasonable job on piste. I mostly ski on RC4 SL's but they are way too stiff for the bumps and too short and narrow for off piste. Similar story for my Karma's, hence the need for more of an all rounder. Yes, I can ski them in those places but not to the level of easily passing my exams and need all the help i can get! As I said earlier most people fail in bumps and variables so i am looking for a (slightly) wider ski that will help me in those conditions yet can still turn well and hold an edge on piste.
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skimottaret, You have stated the RC4's are too stiff and short.... that is not same as too narrow.... and you said you want mainly on-piste.... As I said I understand you may want a fat powder ski - hey I want one too.... but that is not the ski you described as your need
Even I can ski the stockli cheater GS in bumps - it is not that stiff... and I'm confused why wider is better for bumps.... and I seem to recall all the trainers I know trying to get instructors off the wider skis and onto narrower waist in order to improve skiing to pass exams.... never seemed to be a size limit on that...
I was always hit with 'good skier is versatile skier, versatile skier can ski all conditions on one ski' when I tried to wimper about wanting fatter skis.... the story being I could not always just swap skis when I hit the off-piste so I'd better learn to do it on what I skied everyday... and an everyday ski was considered to be narrow waisted by all those guys - and I had a lot of instructors...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| As I said I understand you may want a fat powder ski |
I wouldn't describe any of the skis that skimottaret shortlisted as fat powder skis. Just a little bit wider than a race department ski to help with the variable snow conditions that he will be assessed on, but not so wide that on-piste performance isn't compromised too much. Seems a perfectly sensible ski to be on - but I would say that as I ski on one of the models he shortlisted 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I don't know the skis he listed... just he said the stockli was out as too narrow - yet he listed his needs as mainly on piste and he said somewhere else he had to have >17m radius - which I think the stockli has...
I'm trying to understand why being "BIG" means you need a wider waist ski for mostly on-piste.... I have never understood size of rider to relate to on-piste ski waist width....
BTW the Stockli Spirit used to have a wider waist and slightly softer flex than the SL when I had both - so if he wants wider but still mainly on-piste then that could be worth looking at - it was a really nice ski in crud and slush in Oz... not quite the ice ski of the SL though...
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little tiger, "mainly on piste" means that some off-piste will be skied, hence the desire for a little bit of extra width to aid float.
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You know it makes sense.
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little tiger, dont want to argue, I dont want very stiff race dept skis for 3 weeks of exams. At the same time i am not going for a fat powder ski, not sure where you got that from.. A little extra width for steep off piste stuff while not too wide to hurt the edge to edge feel. I will most likely flunk in the bumps and variables so need all the help i can get there. Rob sums up my needs better than I
Now onto important issues of buying!!
I have a pair of Stormriders in my car (thanks spyderman ) to try out but i think will be a bit too GS with a 20+ sidecut...
Movements might be a bit wimpy for me.
Recons were ok but i have already owned so thinking about trying something else.
atomics i never see in france and dont find any deals on
Magfire 14's are definately in the frame
I have found a pair of new AC30's for £330 new with bindings...
also can get a pair of special flat recons with Marker dukes for 500Euro. not a great price but a cool combination...
Or can wait for BASI offer... hmmmm....
have to say i am tempted by the volkls...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skimottaret, I can ski bumps on my race skis, but am careful not to dig in the tips and risk bending them permanently, I'm sure it doesn't look pretty enough to pass any exam. Getting something else sounds sensible.
There are some SSE instructor deals on Stoeckli and Dynastar through the importers. It wouldn't hurt to contact the Voelkl importer too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret,
Re the XL's, it depends on your stats. 174, I believe is ok upto about 85kgs on piste but will dive a bit in deep snow, of course. But if you have skied a 174 Recon, then the XL will blast it, IMV, and I rate the all-round demeanour of the Recon, which some describe as dull... well, they can be docile, but also step up quite well, I'd say.
The Spark is a very good ski at 82mm and 183 and it isn't wimpy, though I am not sure the Flame will get you much further than the Recon.
What we are getting to here, IMO, is the right ski in the right lenght. I always think the 184..??.. XL is a completley different beast to the 174...at least for me, and I have always thought it betweens lenghts for me.
Sounds like you need a carving oriented ski around 178 plus with a waist of 74-82mm.
My shortlist would be on the lines of
AC40
Spark
Recon/Outlaw
Fischer AMC series
XL or XXL
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Movement Thuders probably won't be too wimpy for you and at 89mm tick the usuable on piste but not too skinny or too fat box IMO (but then I have a defintion based on versatility under which anything under 80mm is clearly too skinny except in a race ski - I know this doesn't square with the GS skis everywhere purists).
Bit of a kick tail though. Otherwise if you like them stick to the Recons and stop worrying. It won't be your ski that gets you through the course other than as a pyschological crutch.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret,
I don't know what the other variables are, but a 174 XL is a better ski than the 174 Recon, piste-wise.
The 183 Spark is close to a Recon and will float better but at your stats, it isn't really really for deep snow, of course.
Volkl make very good skis, IMV and are on the same sort of lines as Stcokli and Movement, IMO.
I'd concentrate on your weaker discipline and pick the ski for that... they will all get you off-piste but they will not be ideal.
For me, given that the off-piste will/may be steep but not so deep, I'd use the Spark over all 3 on the course, that is because its compromises fit mine. Then the 174 XL and then the 174 Recon. I am about 82kgs. I wouldn't normally like the shorter lenght for what I do..but for this course with moguls, then maybe.
I might adjust this somewhat if I knew exactly what the electives/variables were..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's another one for your list
Fischer AMC 79s 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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JT, At the ISIA tech level bumps and variables are where most fail and I am at the weakest. I will go for a ski with as close to minimum Radius (>17) for short radius turns and quickness in the bumps and on steep pitches. My off piste isnt great but i am used to short skinny skis and would rather sacrifice a bit of float for better turns on piste and in the bumps.. There isnt too much concern over performance in deep stuff in the exams, more a case of being able to pick a good line, dont fall over and ensure you dont kill anyone as opposed to ripping fast off piste turns.
Looking closer i agree with you on the Sparks over the flames, they would probably suit me better than the flames being a bit beefier with better bases.
shoogly, although i love my RC4's i have heard some negative about progressors and the AMC's...
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skimottaret, did you just get in contact with the distributors and tell them what you were looking and doing your basi ISIA, and see what deals they could give you? I was think of doing this kind of thing but wasn't sure if it was a bit cheeky!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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arv, cheers for that link, i didnt find any blackeyes online but defo on the shortlist at £275.
freestyleandy, yup, bit cheeky but they are all teeing up the BASI deal so get in early. (dont try to nick my AC30 though )
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skimottaret, did you contact noble custom about movement skis? Not a big fan of volkl, so ill let you keep them Im also keeping one sneaky eye on fleabay, see if any deals pop up!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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freestyleandy, not yet but will do...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, I found the website to be pretty handy and they are quite helpful and quick if you email them with queries. Fantastic ski.
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freestyleandy, noble doesnt have any old stock left but will be on BASI deal, flames are being discontinued and replaced with new ski called hype with similar geometry but new core... £233 for sparks, 195 for hypes....
why dont you rate volkls? too heavy for you?
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, i've just never liked the way they skied, I found the weight of them made them quite cumbersome and slow on edge change, compared to elans for example. basically too much like hard work!!
The spark price is ski only isnt it?? need to get a binding on top of that?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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freestyleandy, i think it was for ski only, movements have always been a bit pricy but nice though according to mates who have them. Very comfortable every day ski..
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've just spotted the 17m thing.
FFS.
I've just bought two pairs of skis - Head Supershapes and some Nomad Crimsons. Both under 17m. AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
BASI. Don't you just love 'em.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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*******
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 9-07-08 17:59; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PhillipStanton, i managed to cancel my supershapes order, your crimsons should be okay though... arent they over 17M?
but will add a small aaarrgghhh for the agro in having to source more skis
I dont think the radius applies on Mountain safety only the tech module and coaches courses. Another hassle for you is that you must have GS skis on the L2coach course. if you look at the coaches section L2 it says in yellow must be greater than 17 m but also says you have to have giant slalom skis of no less than 18m !!! i would just hire race GS skis for the second course.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yeh-crimsons are 18m
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What is BASI's logic - is it purely a covering their own ass if someone gets hurt on a tight radius ski or is it simply that some people exist to make petty rules and regulations for the "benefit" of all? Or is there an underlying philosophy that in the "good old days " everyone had to to do everything on stock GS skis so everyone should still have to?
I can sort of see why twin tips would be poo-pooed as they do obscure a bit with the rooster but there does seem to be some implication that some skis might make things too easy , and heaven forbid if the punters got that message and decided to take fewer lessons
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, on the ISIA tech and coaching courses there is a lot of high speed work and they are worried about people blowing knees out nothing to do with making things harder... they dont have any equipment limits on the L1 or L2 courses....
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fatbob, A 17m ski is not a race GS ski. My GS skis are 28m sidecut radius, I only take them out on an empty slope.
I can't see the point of this rule, either for the coaching courses or for the ISIA teach & tech. I would not want to lead a group at speeds where my SL skis became unstable.
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the requirement does seem a bit dumb to me - you're supposed to be a pretty good skier by the time you are doing ISIA so surely you're capable of making your own equipment choices
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
you have to have giant slalom skis of no less than 18m
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I'd be interested how they define what a giant slalom ski is. Only thing I can think of is whether it fits the FIS criteria for use in competition but I'm pretty sure a pair of Praxis powder boards fit all the legal criteria for minimum length, width and turn radius and I doubt that's what they had in mind. Also would a skiercross ski be suitable? The Salomon W12 Lab skiercross is exactly the same ski as the 2V Lab GS race ski for example. Would you get failed for having the wrong graphics?
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I have emailed BASI about what kind of 17m radius ski they want and have to wait till Sean gets back from his holidays for a reply. If i get one i will put my findings up on here for all
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FAQ
