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Helmets compulsory ?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
slingman, how would a helmet have mitigated a shoulder injury?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
David Murdoch wrote:
slingman, how would a helmet have mitigated a shoulder injury?


My friend Mr Rob was making fun of my skiing style I believe.

The only use a helmet would have been, would have been to protect me if a fell over from passing out due to pain or over-heating as I attempted to get out of the mogul field I was in. Didn't fancy a ride down the bumps in a stretcher with the first aid boys.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
J2R,
Quote:

I reckon a drastic cull of personal injury lawyers is needed, to stop the slide...


Got my baseball bat when do we start? Toofy Grin
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if my wearing a helmet would save the lives of others, i could sort of see the the point of a law to make it compulsory. otherwise, where do you stop? will the "just in case" mentality prevail in all areas of our lives and we will be compelled to wear padded suits covered in kevlar to protect us from any eventuality?

i also couldn't take such a law seriously from a government that allows the sale of cigarettes. rank hypocrisy of the highest order.

why on earth should a government have the right to tell us exactly how we should live our lives? do you seriously believe that the eradication of our freedoms results in any real reduction of the risk of our dying? and let us not forget that, yes, one day we will all die and there is sod all any law can do about that.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
goaty, So do you wear your seatbelt in the car?

Presumably you think the government was wrong to make that compulsory 40 years ago?
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alex_heney, i wear a seatbelt in my car as they will fine me if i do not. it can be argued that the government was wrong to make the wearing of seatbelts compulsory 25 years ago as there may have been a reduction in the deaths of car passengers and drivers, but there was actually a rise in the deaths of pedestrians and cyclists.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wear The Fox Hat wrote:
A helmet will provide your head with protection when you fall on ice. You might be standing still at the time.
Sounds like we should all be wearing a helmet at all times when walking around the resort, that's where most of the ice is to be found. Smile
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Let's face it: whether we like it or not, a helmet is going to make it safer to ski/board. Period

People can pull out the odd study or statistic which claims to prove that they aren't effective, or that they make you ski more agressively - but, this sort of 'evidence' exists for car-airbags and seatbelts, and I don't know of too many people who don't see the merits of these two devices.

Let's be honest, for most people it's vanity that puts them off wearing helmets (including myself until recently). Modern helmets are light, well ventilated, and (if fitted correctly) comfortable - so let's not hear all the usual excuses (sweaty heads, headaches, etc.).

Whether or not we should be forced to wear one - now that's another matter!

I reckon Children - yes. Adults - no.

Just my 2p

[Ducks for cover Confused )
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jonflat2, I am not at all keen on airbags. They add cost and complexity, and can actually cause injury to some (particularly short drivers). AFIK, they were introduced by Americans because a lot of car users over there were not wearing seatbelts. As I ways look like a collection for Oxfam, because I don't care what I look like, I can assure you vanity had nothing whatsoever to do with my choice or otherwise to wear a helmet.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
achilles wrote:
jonflat2, I am not at all keen on airbags. They add cost and complexity, and can actually cause injury to some (particularly short drivers).


My point exactly!

The results of a study that only affect a small proportion of the population, and in specific circumstances, are being used as evidence against a safety product.

My point is that an airbag (like a helmet) - will save far more lives and avoid more injuries than they will cause.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
achilles, two points on airbags - over here they are a secondary safety system (seatbelts first), in the US they are designed as a primary - and thus are more powerful. Secondly, a lot of cars have multi-stage airbags which use sensors to determine how close a person is, how fast the car is travelling, and from there how much force it needs to fire with.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And airbags been made compulsory in cars. Or to put it another way, we were made to pay for it!
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
abc, so are brakes, lights, indicators, seatbelts.

Don't see too many people complaining wink
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wear The Fox Hat, I have not seen anything more recent than this SAE study and which refers to both US and UK injuries, which refers to the hoped for forthcoming improvements you mention. I don't know how much they have actually happened. It does seem to me that for most occupants wearing seatbelts, airbags have little to offer, and can injure. Moreover, secondary safety regulations for cars have added weight overall, and therefore required more power (and so more carbon emissions) from the engine.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jonflat2 wrote:
abc, so are brakes, lights, indicators, seatbelts.

Don't see too many people complaining wink

So are radios and automatic transmittion. How about leather seats? How about tires? Wink

You may not see too many people complaining because you're not listening? Very Happy

(and you probably haven't seen too many people complaining about thye can't buy a PC without paying for Windows as an OS, which you can't buy without paying for Internet Explorer either? Wink )
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
jonflat2 wrote:
Let's be honest, for most people it's vanity that puts them off wearing helmets (including myself until recently).

Let's be honest, that's rubbish rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
abc wrote:
You may not see too many people complaining because you're not listening?


At this point, I think I'll go and polish my ski-helmet.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, the statement based on myself, and the people I know.

Frankly i regret posting a comment on this topic. As in previous threads about helmets, it just seems to end-up in a bit of a slagging match.

It is, afterall, possible to have a debate without resorting to telling people their views are 'rubbish'.
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jonflat2, I wouldn't have to resort to calling your opinion rubbish if you hadn't made a sweeping comment about the motivation of "most people". I wouldn't have commented at all if you had said that for yourself and the people you know the choice was about vanity.

It's an individual choice, and there will be as many different reasons for wearing (or not wearing) a helmet as there are people who ski. I don't understand why people feel the need to be so judgemental about the motivations of others about the choice to wear a helmet or not. I couldn't care less what other people do, but object to the pros and antis who question wisdom or motivation when deciding if a helmet is the right thing to do.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

rob@rar, the statement based on myself, and the people I know.

You do know some interesting people! They resist helmet for vanity reason though don't mind paying extra cost for airbags. Very Happy
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Rob@rar - I quite agree with the second paragraph of your last post (the quote function doesn't seem to be working for me at the mo).

I'm quite happy for people to tell me I'm wrong (I usually am!). However, we all express out own views on this forum - and quite often other people don't agree. I think it's a shame that based on the fact that you disagree with me, you think it's acceptable be so blunt/rude.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jonflat2 wrote:
I think it's a shame that based on the fact that you disagree with me, you think it's acceptable be so blunt/rude.

As I said, I wouldn't have felt the need to be so blunt if you hadn't made that sweeping comment in the first place. Perhaps you were also being blunt in accusing other people of putting vanity ahead of sensible risk assessment?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Only people with a decent brain feel the need to protect it.

SO

Those people wearing helmets are obviously more inteligent.

SO

those people with no helmets are obviously less inteligent, but more likely to die in an accident which strengthens the gene pool.

SO

Good thing in my opinion,

SO - it should be left to the individual and hence the human race will eventually become more inteligent !!! Twisted Evil
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
SO - compulsory helmet wearing weakens the gene pool! Smile
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
abc, Yep. Well done !

Can you convince all of America not to wear helmets to give us a really good start NehNeh
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I think John MaClane should be the President - he was excellent in Diehard !
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
i had a experience in zermatt as i was going to italy and helmets compulsory to wear them under 14 and i was skiing down a piste when suddenly i flipped over sideways and hit my head but the helmet stopped any injuries so got up and skiing again but i was lucky to have helmet italy saved me
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
I wouldn't have felt the need to be so blunt if you hadn't made that sweeping comment in the first place.


Right, I think I've got it now. If anyone makes any sort of sweeping comment on the Snowheads forum that I happen to disagree with, I have free-reign to be as rude as I like. Got it.

As for my 'sweeping statement' - I'm not for a moment suggesting it is the case for everyone - however, on the evidence that I have seen (i.e. talking to friends, and other skiers/boarders) - the most common reason people give for not wearing a helmet is that they are worried about looking silly, or that helmets don't suit them. So I stand by my 'sweeping' statement (which, by the way, I also applied to myself).

I'd also suggest, that unlike ABC suggests - most people (at least in the UK) do consider safety worth paying for. To use another car related parallel: once a car buyer has decided on a budget for a car, the two most important factors in choosing a car (according to recent UK and European surveys) is fuel consumption and safety features.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
jonflat2 wrote:
I'm not for a moment suggesting it is the case for everyone - however, on the evidence that I have seen (i.e. talking to friends, and other skiers/boarders) - the most common reason people give for not wearing a helmet is that they are worried about looking sill

That's OK then, in your small sample the fear of looking silly has stopped people from wearing a helmet. I'm glad that you're not suggesting for a moment that this is the case for everyone.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Could be vanity, could be sanity
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
i thought the point here was not whether helmets were sensible, but rather whether a government should legislate to force you to wear one? they are two very different issues.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
No, not for one second did I suggest this is the case for everyone.

I've just had a glance through one or two of the text books of my GF (who is an ergonomist and human factors consultant) and whilst there is not much mention of skiing, there have quite a few studies of reasons why cyclists don't wear helmets.

Here are a few:

Sisons Joshi et al, Oxford: reason for not wearing helmet = 71% thought helmets looked un-flattering
Canada safety council: number one reason given by Canadian women for people not wearing a helmet = appearance
Lee (1993): 40% mentioned appearance as reason for not using helmet.

I know skiers may have different attitudes - but I'm sure there is a correlation
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The rush to buckets gathered momentum after two ski deaths of famous skiers who hit trees: Sonny Bono and Michael Kennedy.

There's been a considerable promotional push.

The risk is really very low for a typical recreational skier, but I'm all for free choice.
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Could be either, but the seemingly endless descent into a 'cottonwooling' of society will ensure we'll all be donning a helmet in a few years I expect. It's a personal choice. I can't see how anyone will win this argument. It's a choice.

I'm off to bed now but I'll be sure to don my sleep helmet just in case the roof caves in.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
At least you could hide your cigarettes in your helmet at Heavenly !! Twisted Evil
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jonflat2 wrote:
No, not for one second did I suggest this is the case for everyone.


I'd say that this statement is considerably different in tone compared to what you wrote earlier
jonflat2 wrote:
Let's face it: whether we like it or not, a helmet is going to make it safer to ski/board. Period

...

Let's be honest, for most people it's vanity that puts them off wearing helmets



Which I read as being fairly absolutist, leaving no room for anyone to have different opinions, period. You seemed to acknowledge this when you wrote
jonflat2 wrote:


[Ducks for cover Confused )


I simply responded in kind, which you didn't seem to like. If you want to have a slightly more respectful exchange of opinion you need to leave room for people to hold different views to you.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Or your hip-flask in Utah.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar, I've stated my point of view strongly, I agree. However, I have not been rude to you, nor any of the other forum users.

I have also taken the time to back up my statement with evidence. I may still be proven wrong on the point(s) I made, but at least I'm trying to make them a little less sweeping, and a little more fact based.

You're welcome to disagree with me, and tell me that I might be wrong. That is the nature of a discussion.

All I ask is that you treat me with a basic level of respect, and not be rude to me. I hope you wouldn't do this to someone you don't know in everyday life, so why do it here?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar, jonflat2, I notice you are both from London ! Twisted Evil
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
jonflat2 wrote:
so why do it here?

As I said, I responded in kind to the point of view which you stated strongly. Have you considered whether other people, including me, found your assertion that most people choose not to use a helmet because they are vain to be rude?

I'm pleased to see that you are trying to make your statement a little less sweeping. If this had been the case in the first place we wouldn't be having this slightly silly exchange.
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